2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forumBernie just proved
You have to be more than a candidate of Reddit. He attempted to appeal to anyone beyond the reddit OWS and Iphone crowd. Hopefully after this he will stand with our nominee Hillary Clinton and work together to win in November.
flor-de-jasmim
(2,125 posts)that extreme lengths the powers that be will go to. There has been massive attempts this cycle to limit the vote, game the system, misuse technology, not count or miscount the vote, alter voter machine behavior, etc. I am not blaming anyone's supporters, and the results may well have come out similarly, but this election should be a wake up call to ALL who cherish open and free elections. Drastic action needs to be taken.
TMontoya
(369 posts)There is no grand conspiracy against Bernie. His ideas simply do not resonate with Democrats. Nothing more.
Logical
(22,457 posts)If you stand on the extreme left, everyone to your right is a conservative.
pinebox
(5,761 posts)We'll wait while you define it.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)1) They are for every socialist proposal ever made without reservations
2) They believe that they are ideologically pure.
3) They believe that only they understand the right path, and everyone else is ignorant, misguided or most likely a conservative.
4) They refuse to compromise even when it is their best interest
I could go on, but they are easy to spot when you understand their profile
pinebox
(5,761 posts)Wouldn't everyone technically be a conservative compared to the extreme left? See what I did there?
FYI Bernie supporters aren't the extreme left either, that would be Moa, Gurrera, and entities like FARC.
If you're thinking that then the entire world is the extreme left as social democracies rule the roost in first world countries. Last I heard, Sweden & Canada were not North Korea.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)I said that many of Bernie's most zealous supporters are of the far left, and I have seen absolutely nothing to dispute that statement. I think that you have correctly categorized entities like FARC as extreme left; they are MarxistLeninists engaging in a civil war.
"Far left" is a relative term depending on which country is referenced. In this country some of Sanders supporters are as far left as people get in this country without being all out communist.
These are the people who have made it very clear from the start that they would not vote for the Democratic nominee unless that nominee is Bernie Sanders. They consider themselves "too liberal" to be Democrats and normally vote for the Green Party candidate who is generally someone who is not equipped in any way to be President. They would rather engage in useless protests instead of insuring that the unfortunate in this country are properly cared for, thus violating the most important progressive principle. In my book they are useless human beings.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)especially on DU are Ideologues.
i·de·o·logue/ˈīdēəˌlôɡ,ˈidēəˌlôɡ/
noun
1: an impractical idealist : theorist
2: an often blindly partisan advocate or adherent of a particular ideology
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)So there is no extreme left, because that seems like a straw man that reflects no actual person ever.
TMontoya
(369 posts)OWS for example.
Goblinmonger
(22,340 posts)Try again.
And if you stopped the red baiting, that would be great, too (which was my point in case you missed it).
TMontoya
(369 posts)I've heard interviews with some of those who were at the park at the time. Some believing we should just do away with "money" entirely. I'm sorry but that is nonsense thinking. They all rail against evil corporations while texting away on their Apple products (which btw Apple is one of most greedy corporations out there). OWS has done nothing but be a stain on the Democratic party.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Your projecting your assumption on my written words.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)So much corruption conspiracies! To a paranoia extent.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Last edited Wed Apr 27, 2016, 03:59 PM - Edit history (1)
And I think the far right and the far left are more alike than they will ever admit and are both great dangers to this country.They are both the reasons why our government doesn't work because they both try to elect candidates so far to the left or right that gridlock is the natural result. Not even the most fundamental things required of government don't get done.
I put the zealots on both the far left and the far right in the same category - worse than useless.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)by multi national corporations. Hard for a government to work for the people when most elected official are bought and paid for by corporations, including your gal Hillary.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts),,, not the way I would want it to work, but it would work seamlessly. The President, the Senate and the House would all be on the same page. Every bill would be proposed, written, passed and signed without any problems. Again, the results would not be what I would
Instead what we have is gridlock. So I call BS on your statement.
notadmblnd
(23,720 posts)pocketing the money, filing bankruptcy and walking away leaving me and you to foot the bill.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)OMFG are you lost.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)I guess it is the Rovian rebranding of the word "progressive" to mean right-of-center pro-corporate foreign policy hawks.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)Pretending to be progressive and being copacetic with Robert Kagen, Henry Kissinger, Lloyd Blankfein, and the Koch Brothers...utterly Rovian.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)Obviously in your book "progressive"= "left wing zealot". It is also apparent that you don't realize that progressives who aren't as liberal as you are, and even moderates who are left of center, should be viewed as your potential allies instead of your enemies. There are far fewer of you than there are of us, and you kind are not going to ever win a natural election on your own.
You view the political world through a distorted prism of your own making. You should distrust anything you perceive until you break out of your ideologically pure shell and join the real world.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)the people you'll be making laws to regulate.
Hillary Clinton is *not* a progressive, though she does play one on TV ("you can fool some of the people all the time"
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)They may not like the speech, but if they want to pay me, I'll take their money so they can't spend on something more dangerous. And it wouldn't affect the way I vote one iota. I suspect you would too.
When Sanders was asked in a debate to provide one example where accepting payment for speeches adversely affected the actions Hillary made or the decision she made and he was speechless. That's because she has been more active than Sanders in reigning the abuse of major corporations.
If accepting money for campaigns from corporations and special interest groups is a sin, then everyone from Obama down is guilty. Sanders is guilty because he accepted money from the NRA during his first congressional campaign.
Sanders also fully supported John Kerry's run for the Presidency and Kerry took corporate money for his campaign. It certainly didn't bother St. Bernie then, but now its a big deal when his opponent does the same thing. Doesn't that make your candidate a hypocrite?
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)Then people would be 100% within their rights to question your motives, and whether that 150,000 was pre payment for future services.
jack_krass
(1,009 posts)CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)I hope you can be honest.
LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)I didn't know it was so easy to hurt you feelings.
Nonetheless, you support a candidate backed by Robert Kagen, Henry Kissinger, Lloyd Blankfein, and the Koch Brothers. Yet you think you are a progressive. Yet you pretend that = progressive. As I said, claim you are the Queen of England all you want, doesn't make it true.
runaway hero
(835 posts)Say so.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)... any path but the two proposed by the tea partiers on the right and their mirror image clones on the left has to be better for the country. The paths of both extremes lead to disaster.
Throughout its history this country has rode a political pendulum which very slowly swings from right to left and then back again. Every time it swings too far to the left or to the right, the voters wisely sense the dangers of the extremes and the pendulum slows and and then starts back in the other direction. The state desired by the far left and the far right are never achieved and one side or the other is always ticked off that the other side is temporary winning.
My observations indicate that the pendulum has been swinging to the left for sometime now, but beware, those like me in the center will never let it too far left or too far right and we have far superior numbers.
runaway hero
(835 posts)I believe progressivism is something that is needed to move forward. I know why Bernie's fans are mad. They tried this last time, and OWS ended up being a bust, because haf the party was not behind them. I think people are, in a way, sick of the middle, sick of the stauts quo.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)While the country shifts to left and then to the right and back again over extended lengths of time, it never strays too far from the middle where most of its citizens have resided since the founding of this republic. Those on the far left and far right will thus never be satisfied.
runaway hero
(835 posts)This is why nothing ever changes unless the situation becomes dire.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)Some here on DU have been rallying against Obama and calling an end to the status quo. IMO this is the best we have had it in decades so give me more status quo.
fun n serious
(4,451 posts)talking about how they have not seen a conservative republican since the 80's.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Yurovsky
(2,064 posts)I think you're confused on just where the center is... Try moving WAAAAAAY left...
snooper2
(30,151 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)ask any Republican if she is one of them. Foolishness
frylock
(34,825 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)if she is one of them.
Svafa
(594 posts)LondonReign2
(5,213 posts)only coming around on gay marriage when is was politically advantageous.
Beowulf
(761 posts)thebeautifulstruggle
(95 posts)to who the 2 main parties serve together
and wth is Clinton's message? seriously...all i've heard is her trying to piggyback her husband, Obama, and tell us everything else is too hard to even try
Ron Green
(9,822 posts)and pundit memes that became political reality.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Bernie would be eaten alive. A well-funded GOP vs a candidate who'd willingly run a pauper's campaign? He'd be a bug on the windshield of the GOP's Mack-Truck. He'd be a sparrow getting sucked into a 747's engine. No contest. Game over, man, game over!
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)It means a lot to them.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... it was kinda hidden in there.
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr][font color="blue"][center]"If you're bored then you're boring." -Harvey Danger[/center][/font][hr]
Iliyah
(25,111 posts)They remind me of that scene in Raiders of the Lost Ark in the cave when finally they opened up the ark and lord behold a beautiful angelic women came forth and then seconds later turned into a hideous evil monster.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Katashi_itto
(10,175 posts)LisaM
(27,801 posts)Many of the Hillary supporters I know in Washington did their best to avoid the caucus because we didn't want to be bullied the way we were in 2008. This year I sent in an affidavit because they held it on Easter weekend, which was also ridiculous.
If I didn't live in a caucus state, I might have a little more sympathy with your position, but I simply do not hear the Sanders' people getting up in arms about the caucuses. Ours had four excuses: work, disability, military, and religion. No mention of, say, transportation, family issues (such as being a caregiver), or anything else. Some states with caucuses don't even allow any excuses for not attending. And, if the voting for delegates went to a second round here, the affidavits were tossed.
Compare this to not being able to vote in a primary for a party you're not even a member of? NOT EVEN CLOSE.
mmonk
(52,589 posts)That's valuable to know.
firebrand80
(2,760 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)Sanders is the proof of concept we never knew we were waiting for. He saw the hunger for change, and is successfully crowd-sourcing...even if we could never quite catch up with the Establishment juggernaut. This time.
The need for change only grows when we fail to implement it. Sanders dared to be the first, and he won't be the last.
JCanete
(5,272 posts)auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Gman
(24,780 posts)But until CU is overturned, it's not enough to compete.
That's one of many reasons why the next prez must be a Dem to appointment Scalia's replacement.
CajunBlazer
(5,648 posts)He proved that he could get through a primary, that's all.
The money he raised is but a fraction of what the Koch brothers and their friends are willing to fund their PAC's in the general election. GE's now cost north of $1 Billion dollars. Until we get the big money out of Presidential elections, small private donations amounting to a individual maximum of $2,500 per election is not going to cut it.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)depends on your definition. He proved you can LOSE a primary.
But your larger point is exactly right.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)frylock
(34,825 posts)Amimnoch
(4,558 posts)I for one find it extremely admirable that Bernie funded the way he did. It's worthy of nothing short of respect. It was one of the main things about him that really had me leaning towards switching support during this primary season several times.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)But until the laws change, no one has proven that you can WIN without some big money channels. Once the laws change and NO ONE is allowed them, then we will see what we will see.
I for one am not prepared to get our asses kicked in the GE by the fucking Koch brothers out of ideological purity.
brush
(53,764 posts)campaign followed up on those two earlier online methods.
reformist2
(9,841 posts)To crap all over what he's managed to do shows a weird need to dismiss what all these voters are saying - that they reject what the party what serving up.
Live and Learn
(12,769 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)She has been soundly rejected.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)Sorry, that makes no sense whatsoever.
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)How much longer does she need?
An upstart grass roots candidate should never have made it this far, if she was a good candidate.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Obvious is obvious.
Good luck against the Republicans.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I assume you are also in favour of beating the Republicans?
PowerToThePeople
(9,610 posts)Sadly, it does not ever happen. This year was the best hope I have had in my life though.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)So what do you mean, it never happens?
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)vintx
(1,748 posts)I'll be throwing my support behind Hillary, but it has been truly inspiring to watch an absolutely unknown senator peddling democratic socialism go up against the most powerful political brand since Kennedy.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)"Weird need", indeed.
Broward
(1,976 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)Gman
(24,780 posts)Why is that lost on so many?
JCanete
(5,272 posts)It's not like Wall Street does this because the people who operate within it are philanthropists. When communities are being bled dry and corporations are getting richer, its real rich that you would make such a transparent comment about the good work our financial institutions do.
Gman
(24,780 posts)For folks to put a roof over their family's heads or food on the table?
JCanete
(5,272 posts)wall street needs workers to make those profits. Don't frame the argument that wall street is giving people jobs.
Gman
(24,780 posts)You can't change that. Wall Street provides most if the cash necessary to run a business and create jobs. Without Wall Street we are a very poor country without basic necessities.
beaglelover
(3,466 posts)choie
(4,111 posts)uponit7771
(90,335 posts)Broward
(1,976 posts)seabeyond
(110,159 posts)brain. He had a shot, but he did it the lazy way. Stay on point of what he has discussed for five decades. Do not become more knowledge, stepping into a position one has to be well rounded. Listen to no one.
He didn't do the work needed. Simply stood in front of people and talked. That is his passion a lifetime. I can see a lot of worth in that, but not as president.
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)their iPhones think Hillary is the bomb. It has become an issue of class, and I can't afford your candidate. I hope he is the nominee. And that's all I will say about that.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)It is frankly becoming demeaning and humiliating for him to keep attacking the Democratic presumptive nominee and giving talking points to the presumptive Republican nominee. This bodes very poorly for Sanders' legacy.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)peggysue2
(10,828 posts)I've said this from the start that Sanders had a very hard example to follow in how to concede graciously. I'm still amazed at how Hillary Clinton shifted gears and then campaigned her heart out for Barack Obama and down ticket Democrats.
We will soon see Bernie Sanders--the man--and what sort of mettle he's genuinely made of because losing is hard, heart-breaking. It takes a lot of grit to shake yourself off and do what's right. I'm hoping Sanders rises to the occasion, We need every voice, every hand on deck for a November win.
The alternative is absolutely unthinkable.
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)I'm with you 100%.
hrmjustin
(71,265 posts)If he did his campaign would have been run differently.
MadBadger
(24,089 posts)He was probably hoping to advance those issues, and then nobody actually ran against Hillary.
The way he frames his speeches and openings of debates definitely lead me to believe this.
MadBadger
(24,089 posts)CrowCityDem
(2,348 posts)The most important way to win support and win elections is to go state to state, town to town, and talk to the voters about the issues they care about. You have to tailor your message to fit the people you're talking to. You can't give the same speech to rural Nebraska and urban Baltimore, and expect to get the same results. They say all politics is local, and Bernie's inability to hone his pitch to the audience has proven that.
auntpurl
(4,311 posts)I'm always surprised to see Bernie supporters touting those pics of huge rallies with Bernie giving his same old stump speech, and then making fun of Hillary's smaller crowds at her events, where she is actually TALKING to people. You know, what people used to call CAMPAIGNING.
uponit7771
(90,335 posts)He just didn't do the grueling hard part of the work.
dionysus
(26,467 posts)bkkyosemite
(5,792 posts)are to the only honest candidate running for President.Yes he is still running in the primary. I donated and will continue to donate all the way to CA.
aikoaiko
(34,169 posts)I can see why your political analysis skills led you to support HRC.
Jester Messiah
(4,711 posts)Gods, what are they teaching you people at orientation? You either bait, or you appeal for unity, but not in the same post.
ecstatic
(32,682 posts)I'm not referring to all his supporters, I'm talking about the ones who were never democrats or even liberal, but liked Bernie's message. I won't pretend like I've ever been a big fan of Bernie's, but there were moments early on where I felt myself softening up and being more receptive to him (based on him expanding his platform, etc).
But suddenly the BernieBros were completely out of control! Then Bernie started showing a rude and arrogant side as well. That's not going to attract new support from democrats--maybe republicans, but definitely not democrats. Had he stayed positive and reeled in his trolls, we might be having a different discussion right now.
peace13
(11,076 posts)CentralCoaster
(1,163 posts)Good thing, too.
tymorial
(3,433 posts)Armstead
(47,803 posts)This sounds like another version of conservative hippie bashing.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)redstateblues
(10,565 posts)Orsino
(37,428 posts)...and has made our needs his platform.
liberal from boston
(856 posts)Bernie; "I`m In In It to Win It" http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017362988
Dem2
(8,168 posts)Place has been a Bernie/Trump or BUST site for months now - the vote-briggading there smothered any alternate perspectives completely. It basically showed that reddit has a major issue in how it's voting system can be abused.
wendylaroux
(2,925 posts)WiffenPoof
(2,404 posts)...that having the courage of your convictions has mass appeal.
CentralCoaster
(1,163 posts)Not sure why, but I agree with the decision.
PPR.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)Autumn
(45,056 posts)Puglover
(16,380 posts)vindictive mood today.
I love it.
This was a good start. Now about 99 others.
Autumn
(45,056 posts)I'm gonna sit and watch to see if that mess is cleaned up.
larkrake
(1,674 posts)which make up 1/3rd of the electorate by the way, will be forced to choose.They cannot vote in closed primaries, so do not be saying Hillary has more votes-she does not. Indies are folks who are not reactionary, rather they do their homework, are thinkers and are neither blue nor red so are our revolution voters, the future. The "Partys" are just the corrupt teams filled with dominant liars, users and takers(Congress) and the Indies have only two reps in the senate.Both are really well liked as humans.
The DNC will be stupid and will let Hillary take the nom, But she is handicapped.
Hillary does not inspire enthusiasm, in fact she inspires nausea,because;
She did nothing in the senate but name a post office, a street and a school. She is only known for corruption and corporate loyalties, a bad marriage and a shady Foundation. No one has faith in her decision making or leadership abilities.Congress will not support her ideas or legislation any more than Obama's, in fact, most of the Dems wont support her.World leaders consider her a non-entity.
She cannot defend herself against Trumps exaggerations. He is a master at creating doubt. She is a master of only revenge.Her lies are sooooo obvious, Trump lies plant seeds of doubt.
Trump has a record of successes when Hillary has known so many defeats.
No, I do not admire Trump- hes a sick man who hates women, minorities and equality. Yet the hard fact is he inspires voters to show up- Hillary doesn't.
Bernie is a good man, has no criminal past, inspires men, women, minorities, reasonable repubs, dems and most of the Independents. He can defend against anything Trump throws at him, cant be baited, and isnt unknown. Congress will listen because he knows their skeletons. Even if he just gets the ball rolling on his issues, its better than Hillary's corporate loyalties, and general ignorance of reality.
I have lived all over the world. With either Hill or Trump, I see the US becoming even more of a tar pit, dragging everyone down, infrastructure and environment wont be addressed, it will bring the extinction of mankind over the edge
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Nanjeanne
(4,950 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Well, that's a shocker.
islandmkl
(5,275 posts)ala Wesley: 'see ya...wouldn't want to be ya...'
IamMab
(1,359 posts)They are the "front page" of the Internet's emo diary, and that's about it.
Eric J in MN
(35,619 posts)NT