Rocket science? 2383=Nomination. At this moment super delegates are farts in the wind.

[cherokeeprogressive]

WHEN Hillary gets 2383 pledged delegates in a process the general public can participate in (by that metric she's 955 short)... it's over. If she doesn't get there BEFORE the convention , I expect Bernie Sanders to keep running. If he gets out I'll consider him a quitter.

As I said before, super delegates are as substantial as farts in the wind at this moment. Their votes aren't cast UNTIL THE CONVENTION.

Hillary Clinton has 1428 pledged (through a process loosely defined as democratic) delegates. Hillary supporters; IT AIN'T OVER UNTIL SHE GETS TO 2383 and if she doesn't get there before the convention... shut the fuck up about Bernie Sanders quitting the race.

Rocket science? Hardly.

[Onlooker]

1. Bernie will quit at some point

The fact is that Bernie has always caucused with Democrats and has been pragmatic. He's been a reliable Democratic vote even on many issues where I'm sure he was only supporting the Democrats because the Republicans were worse.

The question is, What will he get out for? He will want a keynote, prime time opportunity to speak at the convention. He will want some of his ideas put into the platform. He will want some of his people to get positions of power within the Democratic Party. He may want an end to the superdelegate system (though actually that's the only thing keeping him alive in this race). He may want a cabinet post, such as Secretary of Labor, or get Hillary to commit publicly to a Supreme Court judge who is more progressive than Merrick Garland.

But, one thing about Bernie is that he does recognize the consequences of each election, and just about all his public statements about Hillary, except in the heat of the campaign, have been positive. He likes and respects her, and I have no doubt sees her as a member of the liberal wing of the Democratic Party. I also have no doubt that he appreciates the symbolism of getting a woman elected and recognizes that if the Republicans control Congress and the Presidency, the quality of life for women, gays, blacks, Latinos, and others will be reduced. He knows there are real consequences to elections, especially one where a Trump or Cruz could get elected.

Bernie will do the right thing. If you consider him a quitter for backing out than you underestimate the courage it will take for him to do just that.

[CorporatistNation]

8. Bernie MUST Take THIS To The Floor Of The Convention And Throw Down The Gauntlet On The Corruption

that is rife in the Democratic Party and the whole political media axiom more generally!

Take IT TO THE LIMIT!

[Onlooker]

16. Bernie is the socialist representative in the establishment

He has always been. He's a wonderful man, but he's not a radical. He never has been. He is not one now. The things he wants to accomplish are not socialist, but social democratic. I don't think he sees the party as corrupt as some say it is. Corruption is much more common at the state and local level than the federal level, because at the federal level you have effective transparency laws, opposition parties, special interest groups, and the MSM all looking for corruption. Most of the politicians in DC have legitimate political points of view rooted in American history. That doesn't make them right, but they have some degree of ethics.

I think you are buying into the right-wing anti-government mentality that advocates for smaller government to reduce corruption. What you are advocating for, I presume, is a cleaning of house, and getting more ethical people into government. We all support that. But, we are a democracy and have many different ideas of what is ethical.

[Ed Suspicious]

18. You have your eyes closed. He doesn't see that the party is corrupt?

He is a tiny liferaft of virtue in a sea of corruption. He sees it. He simply knows to tread somewhat lightly for now so they can't call him a tinfoil hatter.

He understands well the corruption in the party and he is trying to work from within to cast it out.

[Onlooker]

35. We're all the same

I say you take 3% of any group -- gays, Christians, politicians, socialists, fascists, women, blacks, WASPs, short people -- any group at all, and that is the number of truly corrupt people. Some may have horrific beliefs, but they are not corrupt. They are flawed, but basically honest. If you replaced the entire Congress with people who roughly share your beliefs, you would still have various levels of corruption. Corruption is a feature that's built into all humans at various levels.

If you look at Bernie Sanders, who indisputably is the most ethical and honest candidate since at least Carter (who was far to the right of Bernie), but he has his votes on gun rights, his support for the stealth bomber, his vote for the Crime Bill of 1994. In the reality of the institutions of government, I doubt any of us could do much better than Bernie ... or Hillary for that matter.

[dchill]

2. What good will it do Hillary, or indeed anyone here...

To have Bernie drop out before the FBI report comes out? Either way, that is going to happen.

[LiberalFighter]

37. It sounds like that is what you want to happen.

[dchill]

46. Well, gee, that could be because so many "in the know"...

seem to think there's a case to be made. I certainly don't want whatever there is to be covered up, which evidently you would prefer.

[JDPriestly]

3. K&R. California has not yet voted. We just got started on our campaign.

Give us our chance to vote.

[hack89]

5. After California would be a good time to quit

All the illusions will be gone then.

[hack89]

4. He will quit before the convention

Most likely after California. He is not going to humiliate himself to please his supporters.

[brooklynite]

6. That's about as rational as saying Sanders could win 100% of California...

...because they won't vote until June.

We can make reasonable assumptions about voting behavior, based on past turnout, demographics and polling.

We can ALSO make reasonable assumptions about Superdelegate behavior. Hillary Clinton has worked with many of the elected who serve as Superdelegates. She is LIKED by many of the Superdelegates. And there is no substantial argument proposed by the Sanders campaign that is likely to cause them to change their mind, ESPECIALLY if Clinton remains ahead in votes and pledged delegates.

[firebrand80]

7. So after he's lost the PD race

You expect him to attempt convince the SDs to overturn the will of a majority of the voters?

This would be stupendously hypocritical.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. Please read the first sentence in the body of the post. Slowly if you have to.

[firebrand80]

12. Doesn't answer my question

What does Bernie do in the time between the last race and the convention?

He can run around saying "Hillary hasn't won yet," but that doesn't make him the winner. The only things that stands between her and winning at that point is a formality.

In fact, nobody ever gets the nomination until the convention in a technical sense.

[Tarc]

9. Bernie himself just pretty much said he's out if California doesn't put him over the top

[cherokeeprogressive]

11. SAID? Or - "pretty much said"?

[Tarc]

15. Quote;

We intend to take the fight all the way to California so people throughout this country have a right to determine who they want as president and what kind of agenda they want for the Democratic Party

[tritsofme]

13. Whatever you need to tell yourself to get through the day...But it is absolutely delusional to think

that SDs would ever overturn the will of the people through Clinton's lead of hundreds of pledged delegates and millions of votes, and give Bernie 2383 as the loser.

We don't need to wait until the convention to know how this one ends, it's already over.

[Ed Suspicious]

19. Welcome to the list. Your voice will not be missed.

[tritsofme]

20. LOL, retreat to your safe space where Bernie is winning!

[Stallion]

21. She Can't Hear You-She Put Her Hands Over Her Ears

and going NaNaNaNaNa

[Stallion]

14. Posts Like This Are Why I'm going to Enjoy the Pounding Sanders is Going to Take Next Tuesday

sweep

[Beacool]

17. Personally, I think that Sanders has a right to stay in the race until the last vote has been cast.

At that point, he should do the right thing for the benefit of the party as a whole and concede. I know how much it hurts, I grieved in 2008 when Hillary gave her concession speech. I still think that it should have been Hillary in 2008 and Obama in 2016, but that's water under the bridge. At some point Sanders' supporters will have to face the reality that Hillary supporters faced in 2008, he will not be the nominee.

[cherokeeprogressive]

24. Well stated. Thanks.

[Beacool]

48. You're welcome.

[Joob]

22. Agreed!!

[Zynx]

23. This is dishonest. Hillary dropped out after Obama got a majority of pledged + super delegates.

She didn't linger until the convention. Bernie won't either.

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. Dishonest how? Facts are facts. She's 955 pledged delegates short.

Since super delegates don't vote until the convention, they mean as much at this moment as farts in the wind.

What part of that is a lie, and who gives a fuck what Hillary did in 2008?

[Zynx]

27. By that standard, Obama didn't win until the convention.

By the 2008 standard, this race will be totally over soon.

Since you're perpetrating crap, I hope you keep wasting your money on Bernie. That money will make its way to consultants and ad companies. The people running those places are probably less foolish so I consider it a good flow of funds.

[cherokeeprogressive]

29. It warms my heart that the likes of you approve of how I spend my money. It really does.

[LiberalFighter]

38. Pledged delegates don't count either until the convention.

That is when the votes are entered into the record.

As far as the convention is concerned there is no distinction between Pledged and Unpledged delegates. The rules of the convention say majority of delegates and the delegates consist of both types.

You are also mistaken about the shortage of delegates for Hillary. You are not including the Unpledged delegates that have committed to Clinton which puts her by your numbers 477 short.

[cherokeeprogressive]

40. Go tell teh Google they've gotten it wrong. That's where I got the numbers.

https://g.co/kgs/MDh5e

[LiberalFighter]

42. You believe everything on Google.

Your link didn't have a specific source. Just a Google search.

[cherokeeprogressive]

43. No. I believe Google lies to suit its own purposes... LOL. Mmmkay.

And the link I provided goes directly to the same place as this link:

https://www.google.com/search?kgs=e9079452597c9960&q=United+States+Democratic+primary+results&shndl=3&source=sh/x/ob/elections/usprimaries&entrypoint=sh/x/ob/elections/usprimaries#eob=m.09c7w0/D/4/short/m.09c7w0/

[LiberalFighter]

44. Articles

Clinton on track to capture Democratic nomination

Including superdelegates, the race stands at 1,930 to 1,189, for Clinton. She needs just 27 percent of the remaining delegates and uncommitted superdelegates to reach the magic number, 2,383.

BallotPedia

In order to win the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination, a candidate must win 2,383 delegates at the national convention (this total is current as of April 24, 2016). Currently, there are expected to be 4,765 delegates at the Democratic National Convention.

Bernie Sanders’ Brilliant Plan to Force a Contested Convention

To become the Democratic nominee, a candidate will need the support of 2,383 of the 4,764 delegates in Philadelphia this summer.

[Faux pas]

26. +10000000000000000000000000000000000000

[Buzz Clik]

28. If supers are mere farts, they don't count toward the total.

You need to decide one way or another.

[cherokeeprogressive]

30. Until the convention is gaveled open they do not matter.

[Buzz Clik]

31. Then they don't count toward the total.

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. I didn't count them in the total in my OP.

[OilemFirchen]

36. Yes you did.

A majority of the pledged delegates is 2,026. Either supers count (as in the total stated in your OP) or they don't.

[cherokeeprogressive]

39. I'm afraid you've lost me.

I never used the number 2,026. According to Google, Hillary's current pledged delegates are 1428 out of 2383 necessary to win the nomination. That leaves her 955 short since we're not counting super delegates. Please feel free to correct whatever I've stated that isn't correct.

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=how%20many%20delegates%20to%20win%20the%20democratic%20nomination%202016&eob=m.09c7w0/D/4/short/m.09c7w0/

[Buzz Clik]

45. That total number includes supers.

Either they count or they don't. You cannot take the absolute total of pledged plus supers in your denominator and exclude them from your delegates acquired by a candidate. It makes no sense.

[OilemFirchen]

47. What Buzz said, and this:

If you're going to include the superdelegates in your total required, you should also include those who've indicated that they'll vote for Clinton or Sanders in your total gained. That's currently Clinton 1941 to Sanders to 1191 Sanders.

[highprincipleswork]

33. "Farts in the Wind". I like that. That is exactly right, and we should be in all the way to the

convention, especially if FBI has not taken decisive action.

Anybody who doesn't like that, I've got a pie to offer you.

Same pie that some of us think the modern Democratic establishment offers us.

[moriah]

34. So that's what Hillary should have done in 2008? She was a quitter?

There was a name for the people who believed that in 2008 -- PUMAs. Stood for "Party Unity, My Ass". And they were rightly criticized.

I never wanted to see PUMAs this year either. But the term that seems more appropriate for people who are saying this now, given they are Bernie supporters and the whole "Bern" pun, are "Bern-Outs".

And given how strongly people now promoting views of these "Bern-Outs" argued in the beginning of this race when the usual early, meaningless endorsements by Superdelegates favored Clinton that the race should be decided by Pledged Delegates, not SuperDelegates..... those expressing views of those Bern-Outs seem hypocritical regardless of WHO they supported in 2008 -- doubly so if they criticized the PUMA movement in 2008.

As I have not taken the time to determine if your past posts actually expressed such hypocrisy, please understand that if despite all my qualifications and careful attempts to say I am roundly criticizing behavior, not people, if you take this personally I encourage you to examine why. For all I know, you could just be having a bad day. I have had them before.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

41. Maybe, but they're farts in the wind that overwhelmingly support Clinton. N.T.