As a Hillary supporter, I say BRING ON THE REVOLUTION!

[auntpurl]

Man, if you can get enough people together to support a good shove to the left of the Democratic Party, awesome! I'll vote for ya, hell, I've voted Dem all my life and I'm not going to stop now.

Some Bernie supporters make it sound like Hillary supporters are against the idea of moving to the left. I doubt very many of us are. I'm a moderate Democrat myself, but I'm not that bothered what flavour of Democrat is in the WH because I know they will represent my beliefs and interests about a billion times better than any Republican.

So, if you can do your grassroots work and find a whole bunch of local leaders and state senators and US Congress members who are electable and have platforms that support this revolution, if you put in the hard graft and make it happen, I doubt there's a single Hillary supporter on this board who wouldn't line up to vote for your candidates. But starting at the top and hoping the revolution trickled down wasn't the best strategy. You need to build the movement you guys keep talking about.

But until then, you're probably going to have to accept the fact that this cycle isn't your cycle. Bernie wasn't your guy. Good ideas, but his message didn't resonate with enough voters.

[UMTerp01]

1. Excellent Post!! I agree

K&R

[salinsky]

2. Sure, I'll be there when they get their chops ... nt

[Sparkly]

3. I agree.

I'm a lefty, although supporting Kerry and Clinton have made me a "DINO" here, for no reason that makes sense.

There's always a revolution, a movement, struggling progressives being victimized, fighting the "status quo." And it starts at the top, not at the grass roots, just as you said -- as if that would work.

Nader. Kucinich. Now Sanders. Same tune, different year.

[Armstead]

42. You are correct, EXCEPT you forgot something

The problem is not that progressives are inept..And yout use of terms like "victimized" sounds exactly like a Republican, and the memes they use to marginalize people.

And that;s the problem. There's nothing wrong with moderate liberals. Heck, in many ways I consider myself a moderate.

The problem is that too many "moderates" gave up on too many principles (or in some cases sold them out). There shouldn't be arguments over some basic stuff. Libeerals should be rowing in the same direction -- bit too many have been rowing to the right.

Iraq War, Deregulation, lack of Anti-Trust enforcement, Abandonment of public health coverage in favor of enforced purchase of inadequate insurance.....etc. Excessive Corporate Influence both in the messaging and in the unseen behind the scenes manipulation....etc.

Abandonment of Liberalism in favor of Corporate Centrism....

Nader, Kucinuch and Sanders, etc,. have been absolutely correct. Too much of that stuff, and too little pushing for clear change to support the working and middle class and the poor.

[eilen]

128. Special place in hell for Lieberman and Nelson on the Public Option nt

[Skwmom]

4. Moving to the left for political show is not moving to the left. A platform is words on a paper if

you can't trust the nominee.

[apcalc]

33. You have to start somewhere

Replacing a bit of the entrenched patriarchy on the right, when it comes to women's rights, is a solid start for me.

[Skwmom]

48. That is why the 1% loves identity politics. Gender doesn't matter to me. I don't support sexism.

[all american girl]

77. Women's rights concern me, because women should be able to control their own bodies

At the minimum.

[Arkansas Granny]

50. Absolutely. I would like to know that the young women in my life

will have the same opportunities as the young men in my life.

[Unicorn]

99. Bernie would have won this election had it not been for voter suppression and

Massive media blackout.

He isn't Nader in '00. Nader got 3% with full media. Bernie got no media and kept seriously challenging Hillary. The voters woke up to him late because of the media blackout.

The majority want what Bernie is for, not Clinton.

Both parties want these bought out candidates out.

Don't let these Hillary supporters and their severely wishful thinking become your opinion. It is not the reality.
And it is not Hillary's time. Her time and what she stands for passed when Occupy taught us to unite against the 1%.
It's despicable these people call themselves dems and support the 1%. They are not progressives and I doubt they are liberal even though they like to call themselves that. Hillary is pro Death Penalty, TPP, Fracking, War, and so much more. No liberal of 2016 would support that. It's appalling any Dem would.

Hillary would be a massively unpopular president with her policies because it isn't her time and we're done with the likes of people like her. They can steal the election, but they cannot really hold back progress. They've only made us more determined to get change. And, they literally killed a large part of loyalty to the Democratic Party. There will be more independents now than ever. It is already the independents who decide the vote. It is unlikely it will be Hillary in the General because it is absolutely not her time.

[villager]

5. His campaign was a jumpstart to something that will be more "bottom up" and pervasive...

...in coming years, whether all those changes happen through election cycles or not.

A "quickening" of change, as things continue to unravel with the end of a stable climate (and with the accompanying end of empire), is upon us.

So the next bit of history will be a glimpse at how we all adapt to those changes, who among us are the best guides for those transitions, etc...

[auntpurl]

6. Good post.

I like that you take the long view.

[Sparkly]

8. I don't think that will happen unless/until there's another draft.

[villager]

70. I think there will be other inexorable forces aside from a draft, that will compel people to act. nt

[Unicorn]

109. No, he would have had the majority because 2016 post occupy people want the 1% out.

He only lost by voter suppression and mass corporate media black out.

He isn't Nader who had mass media and only pulled 3% of the vote.

The DNC had to suppress the vote in every single state to keep Bernie from winning the Primary. And that's with no media.

It's still the end of 1% in politics. I doubt Hillary will win the general because America wants what she is out of our politics. Sure there are people calling themselves dems voting for the 1%, TPP, Fracking, Pro war and everything else Hillary stands for. But they are a minority and they cannot swing an election. Hillary will be the most unpopular president in history if she gets in with what she stands for in 2016.

Now, it will be up to the independents to decide the least evil. The Independents no matter which way they lean, are against exactly what Hillary is, which is why they are independents. They are against it in both parties.

I doubt she will win the general. I doubt the Dem party will unify to vote for her. I doubt these so called "Democrats" supporting what Hillary is in this age have any idea why that's the case.

[PowerToThePeople]

7. have the read posts from HRC supporters on DU?

Many could be pulled directly off Republican sites.

I only know of one single HRC supporter that I think is actually left leaning on this board, hrmjustin.

[Sparkly]

9. Of course not.

Simply supporting Clinton automatically = "not left leaning." (I got that when I supported Kerry, too.)

I don't see what on her platform makes her insufficiently liberal.

[BeanMusical]

12. I love your avatar.

[PowerToThePeople]

15. Thanks =)

[apcalc]

37. I'm very liberal

And a supporter of HRC.

[apcalc]

104. Yup....been busy!

I'm still very liberal, and a supporter of HRC.

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. What are your thoughts on the Death Penalty? Do you support compromise on abortion?

Hillary likes both. Think that's going to change?

[auntpurl]

11. Sorry, what does that have to do with my post?

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. Oh, nothing I guess.

"Some Bernie supporters make it sound like Hillary supporters are against the idea of moving to the left. I doubt very many of us are. I'm a moderate Democrat myself, but I'm not that bothered what flavour of Democrat is in the WH because I know they will represent my beliefs and interests about a billion times better than any Republican."

Those were your words. You're a moderate Democrat who isn't bothered by things that are DEFINITELY not left wing views. I find that hard to reconcile.

I was just curious how you could support Hillary Clinton's views on the Death Penalty and abortion, and say you're not against the party moving to the left.

[auntpurl]

22. I'm not against any Democrat in the WH

Because I know they'll represent my beliefs and interests better than any Republican as I said above.

Further left or further right, it's such a minuscule difference compared to a Republican, I'm delighted to vote for any Democrat.

[cherokeeprogressive]

27. So no thoughts on the Death Penalty or compromise on abortion. Got it.

Abolishing the Death Penalty and supporting a woman's right to choose without compromise is as different from republican views as night is to day.

[auntpurl]

29. Exactly, you're exactly right.

The difference between the Dems and the Repubs on these issues are stark.

[cherokeeprogressive]

31. Where do you think Hillary comes down on those two issues?

With the republicans.

[auntpurl]

36. Her views are right there on her website.

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/

But we are way off topic here. Why hasn't the left done the groundwork needed to build their revolution? I'm ready to vote for some good strong electable revolution candidates!

[Armstead]

47. "The left" does their groundwork -- but they continually get the rug pulled out

The pullers include those Corporate Dems who support the interests of Money and Power.

They also include the rank-and-file Dems who fail to support efforts to change. Look at all of the backlash against Sanders -- all of the stereotypes about "purists" and "ponies" and all the rest that have been thrown against it, just to ensure that the entrenched favorite Clinton is not challenged.

There are so many people who say (or said before he dared to run against Clinton) "I love Bernie and I agree with his ideas. but we can never do that. It's too much to try.".......And now durin the primary they actively insult his supporters and dismiss those same goals as "ponies."

[auntpurl]

52. I do think it's "too much to try"

to get a Democratic Socialist elected to the highest office in the land without any base of support. Where are the Congress members who will vote for his policies? Where is the clamouring from the public for these policies? He's not getting the votes. Does that mean, as Bernie supporters contend, he is blocked from getting his message out, or does it mean that maybe people just don't want this as much as his supporters do?

Most Dems when polled state they are happy with Democratic leadership and the direction the country is going.

[Armstead]

58. I was not talking about only Sanders

Although I wold say that Democrats should not be advancing the GOP meme that Socialism/Liberal/Progressive equals Commies.

My point was about the whole ball of wax. Why don't Democrats who claim to support goals actually work with "progressives" to advance them, instead of either ignoring them or trying to shoot them down?

It;'s a pattern...and I am not talking about the easy stereotype of "fringe left."

Yes, the same message that Bernie is saying has been stifled since the 80's. Democrats have either been apathetic, or have actively colluded with Wealth and Power on so many large and small things that could have stopped/slowed the GOP Corporate takeover. We could have been moving in a better direction long ago of the Democrats had actually worked to push things in a better direction.

But instead they insult things like the Sanders campaign or insult people who advocated for at least a public option during the ACA debate. (The public option itself would have been a compromise.)

[auntpurl]

63. Agree re: commies

Although really only idiots are promoting that (there are idiots on both sides).

I guess when you say "why don't Democrats who claim to support goals actually work with...", in my case, and this is only my case: I don't particularly support very liberal goals. I don't support a federal $15 minimum wage, for example, because I think it will put heavy burden on small businesses in small towns. I think states should decide on the minimum wage, and even cities. It's obvious a business in NYC should pay its employees more than a business in Tiny Town, NY.

In general, I'm a moderate. My point of the OP wasn't "I'm hankering for real change! Someone else do it!" My point was, "I'm cool with the way things are, but if you guys want to move to the left and you build a viable movement, I'm with you".

[haikugal]

62. Most Dems don't reflect the majority...

http://www.gallup.com/poll/188096/democratic-republican-identification-near-historical-lows.aspx

Democratic, Republican Identification Near Historical Lows

Meaning people have left or are in the process of leaving the party because it doesn't represent what is important to them. It's corporate 'values' suck.

[fleabiscuit]

94. Ding-ding-ding-ding; We have a winner.

This is nothing new. The peeps voting Hillary have been around awhile. Wouldn’t hurt anyone to listen to a few of them and not react with a knee jerk assumption. Not saying that you are either.

“… By virtue of the 2003 California recall -- where all voters decide whether to recall an elected official and simultaneously choose a replacement -- Schwarzenegger is the only major public officeholder in the country who was not nominated in a partisan convention or primary. He was elected in a race where every registered voter had a chance to choose from a multiple list of candidates -- including partisans and independents.

The party primary as outlived its usefulness. The candidates the parties choose are simply not acceptable to unaffiliated voters who make up the growing portion of the electorate.

The party primary was an Oregon innovation, passed by initiative in 1904, at a time when the two political parties were controlled by party “bosses” who determinedly ignored the problems of everyday life. The idea was to give rank and file voters in those parties the ability to nominate their own candidates. It worked as long as party candidates were attractive enough to win the crossover vote needed to win office.

That system has lost its utility as Republicans and Democrats represent smaller percentages of the whole electorate. The solution is not a third party. The election laws -- written by Republicans and Democrats -- are deliberately rigged against third parties and independents as Ben Westlund’s unsuccessful run demonstrates. The first step toward election reform is elimination of the primaries and one all-comers race in the fall where all voters have a real choice.”

By Russell Sadler
Sept. 10, 2006

http://www.blueoregon.com/2006/09/learning_from_c/

That being said, for now the primary is what we have. It's not going to change overnight.

[haikugal]

102. Thank you and it's an important fact that needs to be addressed. I view Clinton as a corrupt

Candidate running an AstroTurf campaigne...

Our country is sinking, we need substantive change. I've been around long enough to have witnessed and experienced the decline and can see clearly the way forward..that is not with Clinton, it's with Bernie.

[BlueMTexpat]

71. I admire your grace at hanging

in there with someone who was obviously trying to pick a fight!

I'm not nearly as patient!

[auntpurl]

76. Ha ha, well, I'm old now.

I wasn't patient when I was 30. 40 seemed to be the magic number for patience to descend.

[BlueMTexpat]

82. LOL, I'm old too.

But I STILL have difficulty suffering idiots - or people who should know better but who are behaving like idiots.

[Schema Thing]

13. I like what you're saying, but I don't believe Hillary wants a "push to the left"

And I don't think she'll respond to said push-to-the-left except in the most passive aggressive of ways.


She and Bill are millionaires 100X over. Think about that. They have no product. They sold the power they've derived from public service. That is corruption. When Putin enriches himself, we shake our heads and understand that it's political corruption. When Hillary does it, we elect her? And then expect she'll be "for the people" in anything more than a perfunctory way?

c'mon.

[auntpurl]

14. I'm not talking about Hillary

Or Bernie, really. I'm talking about the revolution everyone keeps talking about.

[Armstead]

49. Correction -- Millionaires in the realm of more than $190 Million

[auntpurl]

17. Sorry?

Why would I be banned? I'm a strong Hillary supporter.

[auntpurl]

44. Right, it's there.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1107112230

No one's replied yet; the Hillary group doesn't move as fast as GDP, but I still have posting privileges.

[auntpurl]

73. Reponses coming in on the thread. Still not banned. nt

[fleabiscuit]

106. You're not trying hard enough.

Go over there and say "Fleabiscuit is the Devil" and see what happens.

[auntpurl]

108. lol

[BeanMusical]

20. +1

[MgtPA]

123. ..

On Fri Apr 22, 2016, 09:33 AM an alert was sent on the following post:

So post it in the Hill group, watch how fast you get banned
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1809556

REASON FOR ALERT

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

ALERTER'S COMMENTS

This broad brush insult of Hillary supporters needs to be hidden!

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Fri Apr 22, 2016, 09:38 AM, and the Jury voted 1-6 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: Seriously, alerter?
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: meh
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: No explanation given
Juror #7 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE
Explanation: ROFLMAO...great post and hilarious...Hill Group now has 800 plus banned...truth hurts many times. LEAVE.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Joob]

19. Cool beans, however Bernie is my guy until the race is over. You wouldn't like me

arguing how there's no way she'd win the election if she was elected right? So how about you tone that last part down, as well. Hillary would say.

[auntpurl]

23. I say vote for your guy.

But his realistic path to the nomination has closed. I don't think I'm being mean about it, it's just factual.

[Joob]

30. Not a fact. Also whenever we point out FACTS WE or Bernie WE GET ATTACKED and Need to TONE IT DOWN

If Sanders does get 57% of the remaining unpledged delegates, he will have an strong case to persuade Superdelegates to throw their support behind him. By winning 57% of the Pledged delegates, he would have won on average one third more delegates than Clinton over the remaining primaries, on top of winning 5 of the previous 6 primaries. In addition, Sanders has a much higher favorability rating than Clinton and the polls have consistently shown that Sanders performs stronger against each of the Republican candidates than Clinton.

Sounds like a path to me.

[insightdeluxe]

129. Hill supporters

seem to disregard her ge vulnerabilities. they want her untouched and unscathed in a primary in hopes her flaws arent highlighted.

[JoePhilly]

21. That 3rd paragraph is the part ...

... lots of these Bernie folks don't want to think about.

Its what they should have been doing for the last 7+ years instead of complaining endlessly about Obama.

They didn't get serious about an alternative to Hillary until it was way too late.

Then they tried to draft Warren, but she did not want the job.

So Bernie basically said "Ok, I'll run."

And suddenly he became the only person on the planet who is "worthy".

[auntpurl]

24. Yeah.

I feel like there's a lot of political naiveté this election cycle. People who don't know how closed primaries work, who've never seen a sample ballot, who are shocked that people have differences of opinion to theirs.

Kucinich was supposed to be the start of this revolution. Why didn't the left build on that and start getting some, you know, comptrollers or whatever elected in their local districts? They'd have about 10 good strong electable candidates for president by now.

Edited to add: I don't know what a comptroller is. But I've voted for the Dem one of whatever that is for years now, lol.

[JoePhilly]

25. Exactly!

[Armstead]

51. Here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1809759

[Snotcicles]

32. Sounds like you would love the change that this revolution would bring.

So stop freeloading off the backs of others, and join the cause.

[auntpurl]

39. Not bothered either way.

I'm happy with the Democratic leadership and the direction the country is going. I want Hillary to continue Obama's progress with some of her own.

But if there are enough other Democrats around who want this revolution, I'll vote for your candidates. That was the point of my post. You just need to put some good strong electable candidates in front of me and I'll vote like the wind. Go for it!

[shalafi]

83. Are you even in the United States?

I can't help noticing the Union Jack, and think that you're an uninformed expat who knows nothing of what is going on in the politics of the United States.

Stay out of this one, if you do not understand who Clinton really is. If you want compare Clinton, I'd do it with your current Prime Minister - David Cameron. Research Panama Papers, and you will see a huge mess of Clintons and her tentacles all over it. It will end her nomination right there if the media tells the truth.

[auntpurl]

85. I've been watching Hillary Clinton since 1992.

I lived in the States for 35 years before I moved to the UK. I assure you, I'm deeply informed. Also, most of my loved ones are still there. I'm voting as much for their sakes as my own.

[Bluenorthwest]

124. That's sweet, Auntie, but it does rather make your language about local activism at the grassroots

seem a bit of a lecture from an aloof distance, safely apart from that actual work you sneer at others for not doing. It's very 'you all do the washing, I'm off to a matinee!'.

[auntpurl]

127. Why would I do the work?

I'm not interested in a revolution. I'm happy with the Democratic leadership and the direction of the country.

The point of my OP was that if Bernie's supporters DO want a revolution and put in the work to put candidates that support it on the ballot, I'll vote for them. Hillary supporters won't stand in the way of the party moving to the left. But you'll need good strong electable candidates to do it. And that takes work.

[peace13]

34. Kind of funny.

If someone else does all of the work, you will ride along. If you agree with Clinton and have no doubts about her integrity then by all means vote for her. If not, you are part of the problem.

[auntpurl]

43. "If someone else does all the work": Yeah, that's...pretty much how it works.

I'm not hankering for change, I'm happy with the Democratic leadership and the direction of the country. So why would I work for the revolution? The OP was in response to Bernie supporters saying Hillary supporters are trying to block leftward movement of the party, or drag it to the right.

I do agree with Hillary (on most things; there's no perfect candidate) and I don't doubt her integrity.

[peace13]

53. It's OK, you are pretty much safe where you are at.

Over here we have to deal with it day to day! You sound a little conflicted but it could just be me.

[auntpurl]

55. My friends and family are mostly all back in the States

Everyone is in pretty good shape (the recession wasn't awesome but it doesn't seem to be hitting my loved ones anymore) and most are supporting Hillary.

Of course, that has the weight of an admittedly negligible anecdotal evidence on one, but there you are.

I think there are always people who are unhappy with the status quo, but most Dems when polled say they are happy with Democratic leadership and the direction of the country.

I don't feel conflicted at all, thanks.

[peace13]

119. Your OP and the response two up are two different worlds.

i hope that Clinton's foreign policy works out for you! Be safe!

[Blanks]

35. Here's the thing about the 'revolution'...

If you've got a good college education and live in a state that has affordable college for your kids and if you make a decent living...

It's one thing to want the country to continue moving to the left, and it's a whole 'nother thing to want your life (which is just fine) to be disrupted by people who seem to believe that it's gonna look like this:

1) Bernie wins in November.
2) Bernie takes office in January
3) February has minimum wage set at $15/hr and bankers are paying more in taxes.
4) Carbon emissions are down immediately because Bernie has a plan.
5) College is free for the spring semester.

The things that Sanders campaigns on need to happen and they'll be part of the Democratic Party platform (and would have been even if he didn't run), but this whole moronic notion that it'll send the right signal if we don't vote for anyone but Bernie is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The democrats have a much better record of trending in the right direction on:

Job creation, deficit reduction, world peace etc. They may not always be right, and they may not move things along as fast as some people would like to see, but with or without Bernie, the democrats have the better record when it comes to trending in the right direction on these issues.

The only revolution that we need is a revolution that wakes up right wing voters to the truth about how the republicans are leading us down the wrong path. Because if we could get rid of enough republicans in congress, some real progress could be made.

[auntpurl]

46. So true..

The only revolution that we need is a revolution that wakes up right wing voters to the truth about how the republicans are leading us down the wrong path. Because if we could get rid of enough republicans in congress, some real progress could be made.

I await the day!

[jack_krass]

65. Ridiculous...

Nobody thinks that's going to happen, especially in that timescale. Id be truly alarmed if it did... Were not electing a king, and most presidents are lucky to get -one- big agenda item done in their term of office.

Electing Bernie over Hillary/Trump is about:
1-starting the ball rolling on these things, starting the discussion.
2-(perhaps more important than #1) *not* having a corrupt corporate money sucking warmongering PNAC stooge in the white house(be it Hillary or Trump)

[Blanks]

86. You're speaking for others...

When you say "nobody thinks that's going to happen, especially in that timescale."

I believe that you don't think it is, but I see all kinds of opinions about how terrified the bankers are etc.

What I've learned about Bernie in just the past couple of weeks is that he lied about the circumstances surrounding his meeting with the pope, there are irregularities with the 'small donations' he's receiving, and he (probably against campaign finance laws) flew his entire extended family to Europe for a short seminar.

If that's what the revolution is going to look like, I'll pass.

[jack_krass]

98. The bottom line is...

I fully trust Bernie. know where he stands, and that he won't change with the political wind. I don't agree with all his positions(I'm not a socialist), but character is more important to me than lockstep agreement, and my #1 overriding priority is getting corporate money out of governement (this is the root of all that is evil, IMO). I also believe Bernie has a heart of gold.

Hillary is a chameleon, has no principles, has enriched herself to the tune of 100s of millions, and is a PNAC agenda following warmonger.

[Blanks]

107. How do you feel about his deception...

About meeting with the pope. He made the talk show circuit bragging up his meeting with the pope and it was pointed out that he stalked the pope and merely introduced himself to the pope and shook his hand, the pope said it was just good manners on his part.

The whole 'meeting with the pope' build up and subsequent deception really made him look like just another egotistical politician to me.

That seemed like a character lapse to me, and I think it hurt him in New York. In fact I doubt he'll recover from that.

There are a lot of things that those of us who follow politics can point to where a candidate has made mistakes (Hillary's server for example) but this pope thing was all over the morning news just before the New York primary (and he's originally from New York). He got his ass handed to him at home. My opinion of him suffered as a result of the way he handled it.

His day in the sun is over. When I'm told that he's taking the high road, I just assume whoever is saying that missed that news cycle.

[jack_krass]

113. Yup, the whole pope trip was a disaster, don't know WTF the campaign was thinking

I won't try to defend it.

Bernie -1 (or 2)

Hillary -100,000,000

[Blanks]

118. Don't get me wrong...

I like Bernie, but a big part of who I support is about how the candidate is perceived by swing voters.

When he did this 'meeting with the pope' thing, it almost comes across as an insult to the intelligence of the voters.

There were a lot of people here applauding his trip to Rome, making a big deal out of the meeting, and people bragging about how he got invited and Hillary didn't.

My concern is that he had to know that he was lying, and weighed that against playing it down, and chose to promote it.

It won't take but one bad timed decision in the general election to end the race.

The Clinton's are a political family, they're very good at weighing what will sell and what won't. They know how to win national and statewide elections. I trust them to make the right decisions to pick up the swing voters. In the end, that's how the White House is won, swing voters.

[Surya Gayatri]

117. A-friggin'-men!

The only revolution that we need is a revolution that wakes up right wing voters to the truth about how the republicans are leading us down the wrong path. Because if we could get rid of enough republicans in congress, some real progress could be made.

[NCTraveler]

38. K&R. nt.

[Orsino]

40. It's not about a guy.

But this can be OUR cycle, and not just yours or mine. Barring unforseen circumstances, OUR platform is going to be shaped by two factions that are both electing people to office at all levels. People preoccupied with one presidential candidate or another, or one side rather than the other, are missing most of the point of a party.

[LongTomH]

41. " his message didn't resonate with enough voters"

When people are actually allowed to hear his ideas, they resonate.

Take anyone of his ideas:

• Get money our of politics.
  
• rebuild our infrastructure,
  
• make the mega-rich pay their fair share of taxes,
  
• provide decent health care for everyone.

Then poll people and you'll find a majority supporting them.

[TeacherB87]

54. As a Bernie supporter, I wholeheartedly agree.

Let's put in the groundwork to elect more progressives at every level. That's how we keep the revolution alive. If we generate the grassroots will behind progressive positions I'm pretty confident Hillary will go with it.

[auntpurl]

61. I agree that she will.

Hillary is a political animal. She wants to win election/re-election, and if there's a movement to the left, she will absolutely support those policies.

People talk about "Camp Weathervane", but isn't that what politicians are supposed to do? Support and represent the ideals and beliefs of the public? And if those ideals and beliefs change, are politicians not supposed to change with the times? She is representing her constituents, and in return they elect her to office.

I mean, I just feel like that's how it should work. Better that than a politician who refuses to listen to the public and stays entrenched in his/her beliefs.

[Bread and Circus]

56. Wait so now that the primary is all but wrapped up... now Bernie has great ideas?

And you expect somehow we can get miss $225,000 per speech to carry these out?

And you expect us to forget we were accused of chasing unicorns and wanting free ponies for the better part of a year?

Um no.... fuck that. It's your shit Party... enjoy.

[auntpurl]

64. Hey man, you want out, join another party, I'm not trying to keep you in!

My OP was in response to Bernie supporters who want to move the Democratic party to the left, not people who think the Democratic party is dead.

I'm not saying I think Bernie has great ideas - Hillary represents my views much better. But some of what he said resonated with many people - so build on that, is all I'm saying. Build a real movement and I would never stand in the way - and my belief is that most moderate Democrats (and Hillary supporters, since they're not the same thing!) would not either.

[Bread and Circus]

114. I reject what you have to say as it is insincere.

Electing Clinton precluded that.

You don't a free pass for supporting the wrong candidate.

And for the record progressives have been doing the hard work for decades, going back to the civil rights movement and the new deal.

Acting like progressives are new to politics is arrogant.

What's new in the past couple decades is Clinton which is just Reaganism in black face.

[senz]

57. Bernie's message is tremendously well-received, but Hill had the system rigged long ago.

There's a reason why Bernie, who came on the scene a year ago with a shoe-string budget and no organization, has captured all the crowds, all the enthusiasm, all the not-party-controlled momentum. He's real, he has vision and leadership. And the people know it, they feel it.

Hillary had the Party lined up like good soldiers behind her; she knows how to use money, clout, fear, and power to keep the players in line. More than a year ago, she had everything stacked up for a cakewalk to the presidency.

But Hillary herself has nothing to offer and nothing to say. Hers is an artificial candidacy.

[Armstead]

59. Bingo!

[aurelius2112]

68. Hillary Clinton's entire campaign is built off of Citizens United - There is no grassroots support.

Hillary has bought her way into the White House. Simple as that.
Super delegates, Debbie Wassermann Schultz and the DNC, Mass Media Outlets, etc..
She has huge amounts of money coming in from foreign countries as well , since she increase weapon sales to their countries as SOS.

She IS part of the establishment and her supporters are "OK" with that, since MAYBE she'll uphold a few Democratic principles in office (while she horse trades with the GOP of the TPP and Defense Spending....)

Good article by Greenwald:
To Protect Hillary Clinton, Democrats Wage War on Their Own Core Citizens United Argument
https://theintercept.com/2016/04/14/to-protect-clinton-democrats-wage-war-on-their-own-core-citizens-united-argument/

Article on Hillary buying fame and followers so her supporters think she is SOOOO Great.

More than 2 MILLION of Hillary Clinton's Twitter followers are fake or never tweet – and she's already under fire for 'buying' fake Facebook fans
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3038621/More-2-MILLION-Hillary-Clinton-s-Twitter-followers-fake-never-tweet.html

[haikugal]

80. Yep, there it is!! nt

[dana_b]

60. auntpurl, you know I love ya

But we do still think that Bernie "is" the guy.

Also there are more than a few progressives running and trying to beat some of the more right wing Dems. I'm sure you've heard of "Berniecrats"? That doesn't mean that they were all picked by Bernie, but that their platforms are very similar to his.

Here is a website with SOME of them:

https://newrepublic.com/article/129047/bernies-army-running-congress

I hope that many of them get in. I am contributing to some of their campaigns.
Thanks for the support, auntpurl!

[auntpurl]

67. If they get on the ballot in PA, I will support them all the way!

You've got my loyalty to the end. I want good strong electable Dems, and if they come from the left of the party, I'm delighted to vote for them.

I'm having a look at that link now. Interesting!

[dana_b]

81. yeah, that's a big struggle to get on the ballot

lots of bureaucracy and of course backlash from the other side(s).

[fleabiscuit]

112. They can learn a lesson with Sanders run.

Learn to articulate in spoken word solutions, not just assigning nebulous blame and foment anger.

[Trajan]

66. When the other candidate is financially tied to the media

And where the media itself acts in its own financial interests to support a candidate that promotes policies that would help the media ... Say, cutting taxes to ZERO for 'friendly media moguls', ...

That might explain why Bernie hasn't opened the electorate any more than he already has ...

Bernie doesn't give free goodies to billionaires, and those billionaire media moguls might be nonplussed if Bernie were to win ...

Ever notice how Bernie was virtually ignored ... Until it was impossible to ignore him ...

Given ample opportunity to access the hundred or so millIon voters out there - Bernie would be at 75% ...

I almost ignored you earlier this week, but, you seemed thoughtful and .. not disgusting ...

[auntpurl]

72. ...thanks?

I do make it a point to be not disgusting.

[Trajan]

79. In comparison ...

The battle in DU is .... Disgusting ...

You chose a different path ... Thanks

[auntpurl]

90. GDP has mostly been a cesspit of vile crap for months now

and that goes for BOTH sides.

[haikugal]

89. I second Trajan auntpurl. Thanks for being thoughtful. nt

[auntpurl]

91. Thank you!

[haikugal]

93. We share a state....

[auntpurl]

101. I miss Philly so much.

I love it in the UK, but I miss Philadelphia like you would miss a person.

[haikugal]

105. Home is like that. I'd enjoy The UK...feel a great affinity for the British. Mother was an Aussie.

I love Philly too but live in the never nevers as Mom would say.

[snowy owl]

69. I agree with much but it takes a great leader which can start anywhere

Take advantage when it does regardless of whether it's at the top or the bottom. Do you like Bernie's ideas? That's the question. What does "moderate" mean? Slow change? Stay centrist? That's the question I have for you.

[auntpurl]

84. I like some of Bernie's ideas.

I'm not in favour of a $15 federal minimum wage for example, because I think it will put undue burden on small business in small towns. I think it should be decided on a state and even city level.

I am hugely in favour of campaign finance reform! So is Hillary, for that matter.

Breaking up the big banks is not one of my central issues.

For me moderate is socially very liberal, fiscal moderate, strong foreign policy. But I'm sure it's different for everyone. Slow progress, incrementalism, that's what I think works. Just from having observed over 30 years now of politics. I'm generally happy with Democratic leadership and the direction of the country (as are most Dems when polled). But the point of my OP is that if there are more people in the Dem party who want to move left than there are who are happy with the status quo, then you guys have my vote. I am with you to the end.

[shalafi]

74. Clinton's revolting. You're right.

n/t

[aikoaiko]

75. Since HRC will most likely govern to the right of Obama, I find your premise weak.

[auntpurl]

88. I think not.

I think she will be almost indistinguishable in her policies from Obama (except I believe she will move the ACA forward if she's not completely blocked by the Repubs) and not too far from where Bernie would govern, either.

That's the thing about DU - it seems like there's this huge divide, but the differences are so minuscule compared to the Repubs, it's just silly.

[DCBob]

78. +1!

Exactly how I feel. Well said.

[auntpurl]

92. Thanks nt

[w4rma]

87. If Hillary's supporters wanted to move left, they would vote for Bernie.

The ones that do want to move left are voting Hillary on name recognition only.

The anecdotal evidence that backs me up is that most every Hillary supporter I talk to sounds like a Republican using right-wing talking points against progressive issues on economics.

[auntpurl]

96. I'm not saying they necessarily WANT to move left (although some definitely do)

but that they WOULD move left if that's the direction the party is moving. Most Hillary supporters (in my experience, obviously) are loyal Democrats who will move with the shifting of the party to a reasonable degree. I'm not thrilled with Bernie's policies, but you better believe if he were the nominee, I'd vote for him with joy in my heart against ANY Republican.

[w4rma]

97. That's accurate. They'll have to be dragged back to the left. (nt)

[kstewart33]

120. w4rma, respectfully, that's ridiculous.

Perhaps you should take a poll of Hillary supporters (provided it is an objective poll and not slanted to get the answers that you'd like) and gather more than what you have.

I'd wager that almost all Hillary supporters on DU support what Bernie is promoting. However, we don't believe that there is a bat's chance of any of it being achieved in Congress. Consider that many Hillary supporters have been here at DU far longer than you have. I joined in 2001.

Republicans do not waste their time at DU. Free Republic is more their style.

The major concerns about Bernie are: 1) ethically, he is selling to young people what he knows cannot be achieved at least not with the math in Congress. I have a big problem with that. 2) he is not electable given his proposed tax hikes and his biography, with enough past relationships with Marxists, Communists and Fidel Castro to chase voters away by the tens of millions. There has never been a public media campaign that attacks Bernie. He and his cause would wither after the Republican assault. 3) Bernie is a wonderful advocate but nowhere in his career has he shown that he has the executive skills to work with Congress (and that requires some compromise) to get his platform passed.

I support Bernie's ideas as most Hillary supporters on this site. I just think that he is selling a dream.

So what do you do? Build the movement. Do the incredibly hard work of electing people to Congress, to state offices, and to local offices. I have posted ad nauseum about building the movement. Heck, I'd work to build the movement!

But it seems that so far, Bernie supporters are much more interested in haranguing about Clinton and insulting Hillary supporters than actually doing something that really means something. You may think that Bernie is electable and he can win the nomination. But IMHO, that is a total waste of time. Start doing what really counts. That's what Bernie should be doing NOW.

[w4rma]

121. Running a campaign to disenfranchise and insult potential Democrats is stupid. But, Clinton keeps

doing it.

[liberalnarb]

95. Most Hillary supporters ARE against moving to the left.

The whole point of the DLC (of which Hillary was a member) was to move the Democratic Party to the center-right.

[auntpurl]

100. It was an attempt to get the WH back after 12 horrific years.

And it worked.

If the left of the Democratic party is strong enough to move that way, I contend most Hillary supporters would be delighted to go along with it. (Not withstanding many Hillary supporters ARE leftie liberals!)

[liberalnarb]

103. It worked?

It worked if you love war and workfare.

[w4rma]

115. The Clinton's "New" Democrat 'ideals' lost us the Congress for the first time since FDR. (nt)

[BreakfastClub]

110. Not true. "Most" Hillary supporters are no different than any other dem. nt

[Surya Gayatri]

111. Auntpurl, thanks for such a marvellous post, especially this:

Some Bernie supporters make it sound like Hillary supporters are against the idea of moving to the left. I doubt very many of us are. I'm a moderate Democrat myself, but I'm not that bothered what flavour of Democrat is in the WH because I know they will represent my beliefs and interests about a billion times better than any Republican.

[auntpurl]

116. Glad you enjoyed it!

[DemonGoddess]

122. K&R!

To make meaningful change, that HAS to start from the bottom up. You build it from there. Yes, it takes time, but it makes it solid.

[EndElectoral]

125. With Hillary you don't get Revolution, but Devolution!

[Nedsdag]

126. Hillary believes in revolution?

Where does she say this in her 10,000 page policy positions?