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Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:08 PM

What does it say about our nation that "rape" has become a central issue of this election?

Seriously. I.want.to.know.
Over & over & over. Almost every week for months now.

Has the national psyche become that warped/crazy/insane? Are we that far out on a limb?
Health care debate could have gone in any number of directions, but this is where we've gone?

Just ponder on it for a moment. I mean REALLY think about it.

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Reply What does it say about our nation that "rape" has become a central issue of this election? (Original post)
southerncrone Oct 2012 OP
kansasobama Oct 2012 #1
forestpath Oct 2012 #2
southerncrone Oct 2012 #6
flowomo Oct 2012 #3
southerncrone Oct 2012 #9
ProudProgressiveNow Oct 2012 #28
Fridays Child Oct 2012 #4
kimbutgar Oct 2012 #5
barnabas63 Oct 2012 #33
aletier_v Oct 2012 #7
southerncrone Oct 2012 #12
Jennicut Oct 2012 #8
southerncrone Oct 2012 #10
Jennicut Oct 2012 #17
southerncrone Oct 2012 #18
Iceberg Louie Oct 2012 #31
Jennicut Oct 2012 #37
Coyotl Oct 2012 #11
southerncrone Oct 2012 #14
ProudProgressiveNow Oct 2012 #29
TomCADem Oct 2012 #13
southerncrone Oct 2012 #15
libdem4life Oct 2012 #16
k2qb3 Oct 2012 #19
southerncrone Oct 2012 #21
Iceberg Louie Oct 2012 #20
southerncrone Oct 2012 #23
crunch60 Oct 2012 #22
southerncrone Oct 2012 #24
Mrkeys259 Oct 2012 #25
funkhowser1 Oct 2012 #26
LiberalLoner Oct 2012 #27
imgbitepolitic Oct 2012 #30
CTyankee Oct 2012 #32
barnabas63 Oct 2012 #34
WeekendWarrior Oct 2012 #35
justiceischeap Oct 2012 #36
MadrasT Oct 2012 #38

Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:10 PM

1. Republicans are quiet, that is why

Their hate for Obama exceeds their sense of justice. They would rather hate Obama than worry about rapes.

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:11 PM

2. It says that the #1 item on the Republican agenda is CONTROLLING WOMEN. And rape is their

 

#1 fantasy of how to do it.

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Response to forestpath (Reply #2)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:18 PM

6. It must be. Like I said, there are many directions the discussion

on healthcare could have gone. It is just bizarro to me that this is where we are now.

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:11 PM

3. in this case, "rape" is just a symbol of a much larger issue...

namely, the ignorant, backward-looking beliefs held by so many rightwingers. If this guy believes this, you can bet he believes a whole lot of other equally stupid things -- things he won't let "slip" (until it's time to case a vote in Congress).

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Response to flowomo (Reply #3)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:22 PM

9. There are apparently A LOT of "these guys".

Beginning to need a scorecard to keep track!

I agree that there is a much larger issue here. One that they are using rape to camouflage. Beginning to think it is a real FEAR of women, for one. Why else would you so vehemently carry on about something so personal & violent against another human.

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Response to southerncrone (Reply #9)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 04:15 AM

28. +1 nt

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:13 PM

4. More specifically, what does it say that Republican rape apologists...

...who are of course male, may continue to hold seats in Congress? It's a war on women. Period.

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:16 PM

5. It will start with woman and then they will move to another victim

These cristo fascists are dangerous and crazy and we have to stop them on november 6th. Why are these men talking about rape unless they are fantasying raping woman themselves? It. 's kind of creepy.

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Response to kimbutgar (Reply #5)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 09:59 AM

33. +1 nt

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:20 PM

7. America doing what it's done for thirty years, but even better now

Avoiding the hard decisions.

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Response to aletier_v (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:26 PM

12. Again, aren't there OTHER ways to avoid?

Have they picked the MOST SENSATIONAL topic imaginable (except child molestation, maybe) do divert?
If so, that wreaks of desperation in the Nth degree.

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:20 PM

8. Old Republican men seem fixated on it.

And fixated on the unborn that don't matter to them when they become actual real children.

Democratic men want us to control our own bodies and make our own decisions as women. Now those are the type of men I approve of.

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #8)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:24 PM

10. Yes. Fixated.

WTH? And I've noticed it's not just the Old ones.

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Response to southerncrone (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:36 PM

17. True. It is all of them.

Obsessed with the issue of rape and controlling women. Republican men don't really like women.

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #17)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:44 PM

18. Perhaps they are all closet foot-tappers.

Hummmm....

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Response to Jennicut (Reply #8)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 09:46 AM

31. It is fixation!

I think the older Republican men yearn for the days when they could more easily get away with rape because of the fear of the stigma that came with it on the woman's part. This, coupled with holdover mores of Victorian prudishness regarding sexuality in general made for a lack of societal support for victims (as well as child molestation and domestic violence). We all know how Rush Limbo and company feel about feminism; obviously there is still an active culture of patriarchal domination fantasy in this country. We're even hearing some politicians who feel it's acceptable to state publicly that the 19th Amendment should be repealed. No wonder these people have demonized the concept of progress; they want it to be 1918 forever. Laissez-faire capitalism and unchecked wife-beating for every God-fearing white man!

And what is with the obsession with unborn fetuses, to the extent that extreme right-wingers feel justified in murdering walking, talking, breathing human beings for their sake? My theory is that it is an extension of some kind of male worship of their own semen. They must feel their seed is so precious, that to intervene on it's natural course, through contraception or abortion, is a huge insult to their manhood. There are aspects of commonalities among hardcore porn that are probably not appropriate to discuss in this forum that support this sperm-worship theory. I just don't understand what else it could be.

But what I really don't understand are the women who willfully allow themselves to be subjugated by this patriarchal oppression. I can only assume that a deep-rooted religious dogma plays a large part in forgoing one's self-empowerment.

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Response to Iceberg Louie (Reply #31)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 11:24 AM

37. I think you are actually on to something, as creepy as it is.

"Male worship of their own semen." They really think it is "against God's will" to mess with their precious seed. Eww. Now I am grossing myself out.
My husband jokes around that his sperm likes to make girls as we have two daughters. He loves having girls and they dote on their Daddy more then me. He never talks about what it would be like to have a boy, though that would have been fine too. I have a feeling that many of these ultra right wing men think having daughters makes them less manly. These type of men think their sperm making boys is the ultimate in fulfilling "God's destiny" or some other crap. They really do have some weird obsessions going on when it comes to gender roles, etc.

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:26 PM

11. That we are finally addressing a really important issue, sadly though

it seems to be an issue not because it is important to address this cultural malady, but because a bunch of patriarchal idiots in the republican party don't even know how to talk about the issue.

It should have been an issue very long ago.

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Response to Coyotl (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:29 PM

14. My hope is the silver lining out of all this

is to draw attention to the serious necessity to treat this as the heinous crime that it is. Hopefully, it will pave the way for more attention to prevention & psychological healing on this topic by the ENTIRE nation....then the world.

(fingers crossed)

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Response to southerncrone (Reply #14)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 04:16 AM

29. +1

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:28 PM

13. It is sad that this is winning message in Republican primaries.

We have to work hard to keep it from becoming a winning message on the National Stage, particularly with Paul Ryan being a potential VP.

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:32 PM

15. And what kind of doormat women are married to these nutjobs?

The answer can only be drugs (including religion...probably, especially religion). Have these women not one speck of sense or self-respect? (shaking head)

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:33 PM

16. Rape is the dog whistle for race.

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:10 AM

19. Rape exemption is the acid test for the pro-life position.

The reason it's coming up a lot right now is that Romney has adopted the Mormon position that abortion is only morally permissable in cases of rape, incest or when the life of the mother is at risk and made criminalizing abortion except in those cases the position of the republican ticket.

Of course, there are significant problems with that position as a practical matter, like how it could ever be enforced. Are they planning on requiring a conviction for the rapist? A police report? An affidavit? These are ludicrous propositions, you wouldn't be able to successfully prosecute abortion or rape. it isn't a serious position on which to build a policy, it's a dodge intended to sound reasonable to a wide range of people. And then of course there's the moral dodge, if it's murder then it's still murder.

The pro-life movement, and particularly the tea-party types who haven't really thought the ramifications of their temper-tantrums through, is facing the absurdity of its position and trying to defend it. They need to find a way to make forcing a rape victim to carry to term seem reasonable, and of course they're failing.

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Response to k2qb3 (Reply #19)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:25 AM

21. Nice analysis, k2qb3.

It is still a preposterous limb to climb. Surely they can hear it cracking, yet they continue to rail on & on about it. One would think they'd abandon it quickly for a more sane & reasonable topic. But, I suppose reason is not in their vocabulary.

It's all just crazy to me, while being extremely frightening from a woman's standpoint. Debating rape "definitions" in 2012 is simply off the sanity train. How can these people be taken seriously to make cogent & legitimate (couldn't resist!) arguments on ANY topic after showing their hand on this.

I pray the electorate is just as disgusted & confused about this as I am & it is backfiring on them.

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:17 AM

20. What does it say about our nation when rape is considered a two-sided issue?!

This whole phenomena of right-wingers and their abhorrent views regarding rape and women's rights is clearly not a matter of one or two isolated incidents. I was asked today if I'd heard about some Republican who said some God-awful thing about rape recently, and my gut response was: "Which one? I have lost track these days."

Could it be because the Holy Bible, the penultimate edict of the "moral majority", is vehemently pro-rape? A few examples:

If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

When you go out to war against your enemies and the LORD, your God, delivers them into your hand, so that you take captives, if you see a comely woman among the captives and become so enamored of her that you wish to have her as wife, you may take her home to your house....you may have relations with her, and you shall be her husband and she shall be your wife. However, if later on you lose your liking for her, you shall give her her freedom, if she wishes it

Deuteronomy 21:10-14

If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.

Numbers 31:17-18

They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man

Judges 5:30

I know there are many good-hearted Christians in the U.S. and abroad. They tend to accept that the Bible is not to be taken at it's literal word, rather as a series of parables outlining general moral guidelines. They also accept that when Leviticus 22:18 supposedly decries homosexuality, the same passage equally decries eating shellfish, touching clay pots with unclean hands, and wearing two types of fabric as comparably abominable, and that all of those stipulations are in regard to Hebrew ritual (along with very specific instructions on how and what type of animal to sacrifice) not everyday behavior. But those aren't the "values voters" that the CON-servatives have resigned to pander to. The same people that have been sold on contemporary conservatism were already primed by the ignorant certainty of fundamentalism.

Remember, these same people have somehow convinced themselves that the word "progress" is a bad thing. They are beyond content with responding to the inevitability of change in the grand scheme of things by burying their heads in the sand, yelling "lalala" and hoping it will pass them by.

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Response to Iceberg Louie (Reply #20)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:55 AM

23. I've always felt it was one of the most dangerous books ever printed.

"The same people that have been sold on contemporary conservatism were already primed by the ignorant certainty of fundamentalism. "

Concerning the above statement, just tonight, I was discussing the fact that anyone who can swallow these fairytales, hook-line-&-sinker, are so gullible & lacking in deductive reasoning that they will fall for anything. What a coupe for the RW when they targeted these weak-minded individuals. And we have paid a heavy price ever since.

They are so fear-based they run from their own shadows. Yet, they are wielding power over the rest of the sane & thoughtful world.

See my post #15 above.

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:31 AM

22. Legitimate Rape???? A judge will decide, if Akin/Ryan get their way. We must keep Romney/Ryan Akin

 

out of office! These Neanderthals have launched the ultimate war on women.

How Todd Akin And Paul Ryan Partnered To Redefine Rape

Last year, Akin joined with GOP vice presidential candidate Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) as two of the original co-sponsors of the “No Taxpayer Funding for Abortion Act,” a bill which, among other things, introduced the country to the bizarre term “forcible rape.”
Michelle Goldberg explains who Akin and Ryan would likely target:

Under H.R. 3, only victims of “forcible rape” would qualify for federally funded abortions. Victims of statutory rape—say, a 13-year-old girl impregnated by a 30-year-old man—would be on their own. So would victims of incest if they’re over 18. And while “forcible rape” isn’t defined in the criminal code, the addition of the adjective seems certain to exclude acts of rape that don’t involve overt violence—say, cases where a woman is drugged or has a limited mental capacity. “It’s basically putting more restrictions on what was defined historically as rape,” says Keenan.



http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/08/19/712251/how-todd-akin-and-paul-ryan-partnered-to-redefine-rape/?mobile=nc



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Response to crunch60 (Reply #22)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 01:04 AM

24. This crap will take us back to the dinosaurs.

They are an insult to Neanderthals! This is a bunch of crazy stipulations about a violent act! How can anyone take this crap seriously in this day & age?

These kooks should have "cuckoo" tattooed on their foreheads as a warning to the rest of the world.

HOW are these creeps getting elected? I have a hard time believing there isn't some voting manipulation in place. Or maybe I'm just afraid there isn't.

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 01:17 AM

25. Romney's 5 point plan broken down

Romney has a 5 point plan 1 the teenage girl that makes a baby using bad judgement should live with that 2 she should drop out of school and work to support the baby she was forced to have 3 when she can't work cause Romney took away child care she should go and sign up for welfare that Romney has taken away 4 when she and the baby can't get insurance she will be expected to pay out of pocket 5 because she didn't go to school her possible financial aid money she would have gotten will go to the rich as a tax credit now thats a plan for the 47%

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 01:33 AM

26. What has political discourse sunk to?

Last edited Thu Oct 25, 2012, 11:34 PM - Edit history (1)

I am so sickened by all this justification of rape as "ok" and not a valid reason for an abortion. I'm just sick of it that I can't wait for the damn election to be over and for these idiots to crawl back under the rocks them came out from. Do they know anyone that has suffered a rape, the attack, the crime? I know one woman and she really hasn't recovered from it, decades later. It embarrasses me to be a male and have to listen to this crap. I'm ashamed of my gender. Does Ryan want his wife to be raped? ... his little daughter when she grows up and goes to college? Do they not have mothers, sisters, daughters, aunts ... is this what they really think of women? I'm just so angered/sickened by it and I want it to stop.

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 02:47 AM

27. Yes, it really is how they think of us.

They HATE us. Make no mistake about it.

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 04:31 AM

30. That

We must all become more vigilant and crush right wing extremism by winning the war of ideas.

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 09:58 AM

32. Women hold real power in the electorate. Men are seeking to diminish it because they are scared.

Rape is the ultimate power move of men over women. If women can survive rape without having to deal with a pregnancy (blatant power over women), then they continue to hold and exercise power. These men are struggling against that.

The women's vote is now controlling elections and they hate that.

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Response to CTyankee (Reply #32)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 10:01 AM

34. +1 nt

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 10:02 AM

35. Spend five minutes on facebook or twitter

It'll scare the hell out of you that so many people could be so fucking stupid.

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 10:08 AM

36. Nothing good, that's for sure

For one, we're too preoccupied as a nation with consensual sex, let alone rape. It's those damn tea baggers who in the last 2 years have introduced legislation, not just nationally but statewide too to legislate how women take care of ourselves medically. But what it really comes down to is outlawing abortion. That make incremental steps on contraception, make getting an abortion more difficult and humiliating, until they are in a position to overturn Roe v. Wade. And if they ever had the opportunity to pass the personhood amendment, women would become nothing more than walking, talking baby making machines. I can actually see a proposed future where an empty womb is illegal. Where being asexual or nonsexual is criminal. I know it sounds crazy but so do some of these repubs that are making national news and most of their party stay silent on their outrageous claims and exclamations.

http://mediamatters.org/research/2012/04/10/republican-war-on-women-is-not-a-left-wing-inve/186151

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Response to southerncrone (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 08:11 PM

38. I have been wondering the same thing.

And all the rape talk is really creeping me out and wearing on my psyche.

Patriarchal control freaks who want to subjugate women. They are terrified.

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