HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » Politics 2014 (Forum) » Lawrence, LAWRENCE! I lo...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:53 PM

Lawrence, LAWRENCE! I love ya, man... but REALLY?

Lawrence O'Donnell on the Last Word encouraging 3rd party voting in states that are "in the bag" one way or another.

I get the premise, but we can't afford to lose ANY VOTES in ANY STATE.

Bad move, in my opinion. 3rd parties need to be built from the GROUND UP, not from the top down once every 4 years.

IMHO.

56 replies, 4869 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 56 replies Author Time Post
Reply Lawrence, LAWRENCE! I love ya, man... but REALLY? (Original post)
Grown2Hate Oct 2012 OP
WI_DEM Oct 2012 #1
gateley Oct 2012 #52
GranholmFan Oct 2012 #2
drm604 Oct 2012 #3
demgrrrll Oct 2012 #4
Blue Owl Oct 2012 #5
Politicalboi Oct 2012 #6
patrice Oct 2012 #7
RomneyLies Oct 2012 #8
BlueDemKev Oct 2012 #9
LisaL Oct 2012 #10
onehandle Oct 2012 #11
AaronMayorga Oct 2012 #16
Dawson Leery Oct 2012 #17
Grown2Hate Oct 2012 #19
LisaL Oct 2012 #23
patrice Oct 2012 #33
FSogol Oct 2012 #46
patrice Oct 2012 #47
gordianot Oct 2012 #12
hrmjustin Oct 2012 #13
LiberalElite Oct 2012 #14
Grown2Hate Oct 2012 #18
hrmjustin Oct 2012 #20
patrice Oct 2012 #34
gleannfia Oct 2012 #22
Adenoid_Hynkel Oct 2012 #27
ffr Oct 2012 #15
Cha Oct 2012 #21
patrice Oct 2012 #24
hrmjustin Oct 2012 #28
katmondoo Oct 2012 #25
Grown2Hate Oct 2012 #30
Adenoid_Hynkel Oct 2012 #26
ProudProgressiveNow Oct 2012 #29
Thrill Oct 2012 #31
nevergiveup Oct 2012 #32
nsd Oct 2012 #37
flamingdem Oct 2012 #35
patrice Oct 2012 #38
southerncrone Oct 2012 #36
Grown2Hate Oct 2012 #39
southerncrone Oct 2012 #42
LisaL Oct 2012 #43
LisaL Oct 2012 #40
drm604 Oct 2012 #44
LisaL Oct 2012 #48
drm604 Oct 2012 #49
southerncrone Oct 2012 #50
tarheelsunc Oct 2012 #41
FSogol Oct 2012 #45
Tarheel_Dem Oct 2012 #51
ffr Oct 2012 #53
flamingdem Oct 2012 #55
defacto7 Oct 2012 #54
Grown2Hate Oct 2012 #56

Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:55 PM

1. We need as many votes in the blue states to win a popular vote as well as electoral vote victory.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WI_DEM (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 27, 2012, 01:50 AM

52. You're right -- we seem to have been talking about this in terms of one OR the other --

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:55 PM

2. Yeah, again, another reason not to watch MSNBC except for Krystal Ball lol

And Ron Reagan Jr....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:55 PM

3. I had to turn it off, it made me so angry.

What the hell is he thinking?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:55 PM

4. I know that was the stupiedest thing he has ever done. What an ass.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:55 PM

5. Who's signing his paycheck?

n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:56 PM

6. I saw that too

And I thought he was talking crazy. I would think Raygun won Ca, in 80. I already voted here in Ca and I voted for Obama. Obama lost here in Bakersfield in the primaries.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:56 PM

7. Agreed. It's not good to take the efforts of others with a free ride on their work. It's just plane

Last edited Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:57 PM - Edit history (1)

unjust and THAT's bad not only for everyone, but also for 3rd party building.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:57 PM

8. MSNBC is really doing everything they can to destroy the Democratic Party

 

They aren't even pretending any more.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:57 PM

9. Yeah, I was thinking the same thing...

I mean, I live in a deep red state, but the fact remains is that the only poll that truly matters is the one on Election Day. Encouraging liberals to vote for left-wing third-party fringe candidates will only cost us, maybe not this time but in the next election cycle. Ralph Nader was buoyed by his showing in the '96 election, so that he ran again in 2000...with disastrous consequences for the Democratic Party and the entire nation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:58 PM

10. With friends like this, who needs enemies?


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:58 PM

11. Fuck third parties. They gave us Bush. nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onehandle (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:02 PM

16. Lawrence just showed the "537 Votes" from the Obama Campaign. It made me angry at the '00 election..

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onehandle (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:03 PM

17. After the horror of the Bush years,

I have NO intention of giving any third party candidates for President my vote.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to onehandle (Reply #11)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:06 PM

19. To be fair, he did say you'd be crazy to do so in a battleground state, citing Nader in FL in

2000. Still... just not good practice in GENERAL. Take NOTHING for granted, goddamnit. NOTHING.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Reply #19)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:13 PM

23. Exactly.

We should give him a piece of our mind.
There are lots of states that are close, even if they are blue.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Reply #19)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:43 PM

33. That doesn't matter. You NEVER see 3rd party out doing the actual grunt work of

grassroots organizing. They're just along for a free ride when it's time to vote. I actually like Green Party policies, but I don't do anything for them, because they aren't about DOING anything concrete.

My longstanding experience of the Green Party here is that it's all hat and no cattle, looking for a free ride at the last minute on the vote, without doing the basic ground-work, at the bottom of the heap, of grassroots issue activism. Most of the time, they do little more than put on their little workshops and panels and tell everyone how wrong everyone else is and how right they are and then make a big fuss when it comes to the vote to scalp off as many voters as they can.

With the exception of Libertarians this election cycle, 3rd parties are small and therefore do not believe in the importance of doing the fundamental ground work of organizing. Apparently they don't believe that the work of a few people is worth doing, so they are like parasites on the activism of others.

I agree with them in principle, but in practice, until they start showing up to do some of the work . . . fuck 'em!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to patrice (Reply #33)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 04:19 PM

46. Agree, however they don't even care about the votes, they just want some financial support. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to FSogol (Reply #46)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 10:06 PM

47. It's frustrating; they think being more or less right is all that it takes & if they work with

anyone else that makes them "wrong".

They're leadership around here is STILL quite hierarchical, very uni-directional; I suppose that's the drive toward finances higher up the political food-chain, climes that provide token respect, but no substantial commitment because it's more than a little obvious that Greens are more ideology than functional productive real politik. I have been to dozens of their meeting and have never seen an authentic attempt at horizontal empowerment and all of the risk that entails. They go through the liturgy of new-agey motions without explicitly giving complete autonomy and support for activation at the "lowest" most dis-empowered levels and they don't know what to do when someone pushes. It's a club; their internal relationships are good, deep from being together a long time, but too self absorbed, kind of agoraphobic.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:58 PM

12. Just let the popular vote go to a Republican loser in the Electorial College.

Think there is disrespect now?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:58 PM

13. Bad Idea! Lawrence should retract that statement.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 10:58 PM

14. The Green Party is being built from the ground up see this list

http://www.gp.org/elections/officeholders/index.php

They don't just trot out a presidential candidate every 4 years and then do nothing. But the MSM doesn't cover them so....

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LiberalElite (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:04 PM

18. Impressive. I'd say that's a good start. It will take YEARS to get viability in statewide/national

office, however.

You're right; the MSM does NOT cover this.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LiberalElite (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:08 PM

20. Democrats are better

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to hrmjustin (Reply #20)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:46 PM

34. Democrats ARE better. When it comes to the nuts and bolts of how things happen. Green is out in lala

land.

All blow and no daily discipline for the go.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LiberalElite (Reply #14)


Response to LiberalElite (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:21 PM

27. unless we have instant runoff voting, third parties are pointless and self-defeating

fact of the matter is, we have a winner-take-all, two-party system.
As a result, the better a third party does, the more likely the candidate who least represents your side winning is.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:00 PM

15. He said what?

No. No. No.

M$M is all about TV ratings and advertising revenue. MSNBC does fine work the rest of the year, but their encouragement to Democrats to peel votes off, after all the hard grassroots work we're doing, is sickening.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:10 PM

21. Yeah, hasn't he heard about that whole Popular Vote thing..and the

Millions in the South who are voting Romney Ryan AND Against Themselves 'cause their Brainwashed?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:14 PM

24. Contact MSNBC > Lawrence ODonnell page link:

Use the drop downs here:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/48780726#__utma=34328804.1168261787.1351134368.1351134368.1351134368.1&__utmb=34328804.7.10.1351134368&__utmc=34328804&__utmx=-&__utmz=34328804.1351134368.1.1.utmcsr=%28direct%29|utmccn=%28direct%29|utmcmd=%28none%29&__utmv=-&__utmk=93123103

Gad, what a nasty looking link, I hope it works!

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to patrice (Reply #24)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:25 PM

28. It worked. I sent in a complaint.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:17 PM

25. Rachel upset me too

Talking about a tie Electoral Vote going to the House Speaker. Why is MSNBC trying to get us depressed

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to katmondoo (Reply #25)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:31 PM

30. Let's HOPE they're trying to motivate us to get our asses out and vote? (at least Rachel... don't

see how Lawrence does that with this 3rd party push).

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:19 PM

26. What good does it do to build up a third party, even in a 'safe' state?

All it does is give them ballot lines and infrastructure to be a spoiler down the road

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:26 PM

29. Agreed!

Every vote counts. Period.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:32 PM

31. This is what we get from the few Democrats on Cable News? Unreal

Can you imagine Oreliy saying some stupid bullshit like this to Republicans?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:34 PM

32. Dumb Dumb Dumb.

If Obama wins the electoral college but loses the popular vote his mandate will be shot. The msm will become obsessed with Romney's popular vote win and it is all they will talk about for the next two years.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to nevergiveup (Reply #32)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:58 PM

37. +1

Exactly right. We want to get Obama a mandate. Congressional Republicans are going to fight him tooth and nail on everything -- sequester, Bush tax cuts, ACA implementation, everything -- just as they have for the last four years. He's going to need all the ammunition he can get. We want both the electoral college and the popular vote.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:48 PM

35. Plus, the third party candidates are a joke, a waste of a vote n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to flamingdem (Reply #35)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:01 AM

38. It's actually BAD for 3rd parties. We agree with their platforms, but they themselves are parasites

on the organizing efforts of others. Showing up at voting time with flakey candidates and without having done any of the most basic work of organizing. That's damaging to everyone, but most especially to 3rd partiers who are NEVER going to grow any kind of party without committing, at minimum, to the daily grind of concrete issue activism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 11:54 PM

36. There is ONE exception to this.

In TN today, I voted for the Green Party candidate for Senate.

As many may know, the teabaggers slipped one of their own into our primary (Clayton). He WON because he was first on the list. (I don't know what actually happened that we didn't get our primary candidates better exposure.)
The state Dem party has disavowed him. So, instead of NOT voting against Corker, I made the best choice I had.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to southerncrone (Reply #36)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:03 AM

39. Absolutely right. TN screwed the pooch on that one. :( NT

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Reply #39)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:09 AM

42. We didn't just shoot ourselves in the foot; we shot ourselves in the head.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to southerncrone (Reply #42)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:12 AM

43. Sometimes a buffoon with a nice name can win the primary.

Wouldn't be a first time this happened.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to southerncrone (Reply #36)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:03 AM

40. Yes, of course.

Some democratic candidates slip by in primaries that even democratic party doesn't support.
In that case, it's perfectly fine to vote green.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to southerncrone (Reply #36)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 03:57 PM

44. I don't even agree with this.

You need a Democratic majority in the Senate to control the agenda. Unless you're certain of that majority, you need to vote for the Democrat regardless of how odious he or she is. Voting for the Green candidate will just help put the Republican in office.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to drm604 (Reply #44)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 10:07 PM

48. In some local races there is no democrat running.

In which case I also voted green.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to LisaL (Reply #48)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 11:03 PM

49. In that case of course you can't vote Democrat and have to choose the best candidate that is running

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to drm604 (Reply #44)

Sat Oct 27, 2012, 01:14 AM

50. He is completely unacceptable.

The Green Candidate whom I voted for is more Dem than lots of Dems in office now. The Dem guy would be more likely to caucus w/the teabagger Republicans. He was a sneak in to test their idea that if a candidate is listed first on the ballot, they have a better chance of being elected (cuz we have so many uninformed voters.). Most of the ballots in TN have the Republican listed first in ALL races. Not alphabetically, or w/incumbment listed first. More Rovian slime trickery!

Here is some info on the Dem candidate (make sure to read the second & third pages):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/decision2012/2012s-worst-candidate-with-mark-clayton-tennessee-democrats-hit-bottom/2012/10/22/77da926e-1b8a-11e2-a146-ccabc9c85c53_story_1.html


Here is info on the Green Candidate:

http://martinpleasant.com/about/

http://martinpleasant.com/platform/

Now. What would YOU do if you were in our shoes?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:05 AM

41. Keep in mind he's not a Democrat, he's a practical European socialist or whatever.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 04:06 PM

45. I was reminded of the time Keith Olberman said, he never voted in elections

because he felt it was a conflict of interest. Total , imo.

Plus O'Donnell said he has only voted for a winning Presidential candidate once. No support for 6 out of these 7-8: Carter, Mondale, Dukakis, Clinton twice, Gore, Kerry, Obama?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2012, 01:29 AM

51. I watch LO sporadically. Can't take the nightly Rush clips. What's that all about?

Frankly, if I wanted to listen to Rush Limbaugh spout sexist, racist buffoonery, I have a radio. I don't tune in to indulge LO's rush obsession. And if it's not Rush, it's O'Reilly. I think it's intellectually lazy, and I know Lawrence is nobody's fool.

Drop the Rush crap Lawrence, and stop promoting third party b.s. while you're at it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2012, 02:03 AM

53. LO reversed himself on Friday's show

Votes during his show for Obama, while former California state governor Gray Davis looked on.

Can't even stick with his own advice: thank goodness.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ffr (Reply #53)

Sat Oct 27, 2012, 03:16 AM

55. I knew he'd do that!

Lawrence causing a ruckus! Glad he gets it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2012, 02:06 AM

54. He is not stupid!

If he is telling people not to vote or to vote 3rd party, he is doing it for a reason. That makes him the enemy as far as I'm concerned. There is NO middle ground right now and anything less than a vote for Obama is a vote for Romney.

Lawrence O'Donnell is not on our side. He is a Romney man, no matter what his argument is or his twisted rhetoric is playing on. He either recants or he is a right winger. And that is that.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Grown2Hate (Original post)

Sat Oct 27, 2012, 04:07 AM

56. Ultimately pulled the trigger for President Obama. I'll take it. :) NT

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread