Kos: Delusion sets in at Camp Sanders

[SunSeeker]

<snip>

"When we arrive at the convention, it will be an open convention, likely with neither candidate having a majority of pledged delegates," Weaver told host Chris Cuomo. 

There are two candidates. No one else has delegates. By definition, someone will have a majority of pledged delegates. What that candidate won’t have is a majority of all delegates, including the supers. But who cares? The only count that matters is pledged delegates. And if Sanders stages the biggest comeback in anything history to win a majority of pledged delegates? Kudos to him! He will have earned the nomination! 

But pretending that 1) we’re going to have a brokered convention, when the math literally says it’s impossible, and 2) pretending that the super delegates would abandon Clinton for him despite his historical and current antipathy toward the Democratic Party is simply delusional. 

<snip>

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2016/4/5/1510862/-Delusion-sets-in-at-Camp-Sanders?detail=email1&can_id=ad31a2e2debc6b615c4f6fd212476c6b&source=email-delusion-sets-in-at-camp-sanders&email_referrer=delusion-sets-in-at-camp-sanders&email_subject=delusion-sets-in-at-camp-sanders&link_id=1

[DFab420]

1. Oh look, the website that forbids negative Clinton articles has a negative Sanders post.

Go. Fucking. Figure.

[daleanime]

7. +1

[Impedimentus]

9. +2

FEEL THE BERN - 2016

[roguevalley]

14. kos stooging for a buck. I bet the last ten

Bernie wins/re-install left a mark

[grntuscarora]

17. +3.

[closeupready]

24. +4.

to this thread.

[arcane1]

26. Imagine that. They're getting more terrified by the day n/t

[Lucinda]

36. There are still tons of negative Clinton articles at KOS. n/t

[Segami]

2. More Hillary porridge from baby Kos...

[firebrand80]

3. That assumes they really believe the SD flipping story

I don't think they do

[SunSeeker]

8. Well, Weaver is either lying or delusional. Either one is damning. nt

[firebrand80]

10. "lying" is a strong word

He's definitely spinning, but that's pretty much a campaign manager's job description

[SunSeeker]

13. Sorry, I thought saying what you don't believe is true is lying.

Spinning, as I understand it, is not lying but bringing up the silver lining in the cloud.

[firebrand80]

19. Call it what you want, I guess

By that standard we can call out every campaign for "lying"

[nolabels]

23. No doubt, projection is playing a part here ^

Have fun with it

[msanthrope]

4. Send moar donations!!!! nt

[roguevalley]

15. yes, maddie. send them!!!!!

[NCjack]

28. Yes, it is my delusion to participate in this scheme of madness to get

honest government. I'm sending moar money now! Vote Bernie2016 to remove your debt-slave collar.

[Hiraeth]

5. talk about delusional

[Politicalboi]

6. That site is pure shit

I hate it's lay out, and they aren't progressive enough if they support Hillary. SD's better go with the will of the people.

[Cha]

11. K&R!

[Herman4747]

12. Bernie's in the Race to Make the Country Better...

...Hillary's in the race to fulfill her long-time egotistical goal of becoming president. The longer Bernie stays in the race, the more leverage he will have at the Democratic Convention.
And that works to the benefit of all of us in guiding the Democratic Platform, as Hillary can think of nothing to offer but minor incrementalism.

[SunSeeker]

18. Bernie is in the race to be a gadfly. Hillary is in the race to make progressive change.

She actually has workable plans that she has thought through. Bernie only has rhetoric.

[Herman4747]

20. Progressive Change???? LOL!!!!

What progressive plans does she have in mind, with, say, regards to foreign policy?

Would you say that the fellow on the left, whose counsel she has actively sought, is truly offering her insight into "progressive" foreign policy?? YES OR NO, OR ARE YOU GOING TO REFUSE TO ANSWER??

KAPOW!!!

[SunSeeker]

25. Hillary has plans to raise wages, make college affordable and expand the ACA for universal coverage.

Her plans actually have a chance at implementation, unlike Sanders’s empty rhetoric. One of the reasons Sanders hasn't been able to get anything done is because he does not know --or is too prickly--to be able to work with people. That is why none of his Senate colleagues have endorsed him.

Hillary is no fan of the Nixon administration. She was one of the lawyers who worked to impeach Nixon. But she also understands the importance of maintaining relationships to get things done. With regard to Kissinger, Hillary explained:

“His opening up China and his ongoing relationship with the leaders of China is an incredibly useful relationship for the United States of America… Yes, people we may disagree with on a number of things may have some insight, may have some relationships that are important for the president to understand in order to best protect the United States.”

Hillary knows foreign policy, unlike Sanders, and knows you have to maintain relationships to get things done, even with people you disagree with. That is how she was able to get the ball rolling on the Iran nuclear disarmament deal.

[Herman4747]

39. With regards to domestic policy....

"Her plans actually have a chance at implementation"

her plans have no chance of implementation unless the Democrats retake the House of Representatives (unlikely anytime soon) and even then could be stopped by a filibuster in the Senate. Expanding Obamacare when the original just barely passed???

And how precisely do you know that Hillary's plans are sincere, that is, that she is not just telling you a bunch of crap designed to keep people like you lined up to support her? How frequently has Hillary flip-flopped, how frequently has she lied? Can you truly believe anything she says?

Bernie's innovative plans set the initial groundwork for what we should be striving for when during rare occurrences we have complete control of Congress. Things like Free College for All. Bernie also wouldn't be able to accomplish it anytime soon. But he sets the worthwhile goal that should become a part of the Democratic Platform.
Because it is generally so difficult to get anything decent passed in the U.S. Congress, the main duties of the President pertain to foreign policy as well as appointments (particularly Supreme Court appointments).

So let us explore the Kissinger influence upon Hillary. Here, just today posted on DemocraticUnderground we have this:

Hillary’s Bones – A Coup Tutorial

This is a story, based on some facts… different than the stories we hear from the media. Facts can be arranged to make a story. The media had one story. This is another.

On June 28th, 2009, President Manuel Zelaya of Honduras was dragged out of bed in his pajamas by Honduran soldiers, bound and beaten , flown out of Honduras using the US military’s Soto Cano airfield, and sent into exile. There was immediate and universal condemnation of the coup, including from the United States. President Barack Obama condemned the coup. So did Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. The story faded from the news. The Hondurans had some kind of election. Everything is okay now.

This story is different, different than that story.

In this story, a powerful public/private alliance, which included the government of the United States of America, not only had prior knowledge of the coup, it was deeply involved in the planning and execution of it. The head of the principle government agency involved in this coup d’etat was Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.

from http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=7742176

Read more about your beloved candidate here: Hard choices: Hillary Clinton admits role in Honduran coup aftermath

I DON'T WANT THIS KIND OF WICKED PRESIDENT OKAY??? I don't want a president who wants to be "enemies" with Iranians. I don't want a president whose initial inclinations are toward belligerence.

Such a president WOULD NOT BE PROGRESSIVE, okay?

[SunSeeker]

40. Hillary has gotten difficult things done before, like covering 8 million poor kids with SCHIP.

She knows how to work with Republicans to accomplish progressive goals. Demanding "free college" is not "innovative." It is not going to get us free college with a Republican congress--or even a Democratic one. Setting up a program that creates "affordable college," will, especially it we don't give the rich free college and those whose tuition we pay for need to have some responsibility in terms of working for some of it and taking low interest loans.

It is just over the top and dead wrong to call Hillary "wicked," as is the hate toward President Obama and the DU conspiracy theory flavor of the month, that Honduras coup story. I expect to see garbage like that on on Red State or World Net Daily, but not on a progressive board. Putting something in all caps does not make it true.

[George II]

42. Some never tire of posting that picture. I wonder if Sanders had a chance to meet with....

...the Soviet Premier when he honeymooned in the Soviet Union?

[Herman4747]

43. Well, the fellow at the top of the Soviet government...

...when Bernie was there was a guy known as Gorbachev, you know, the guy that won the Nobel Peace Prize and was named Time Person of the Decade. Don't think Bernie got to meet this world hero, though, but I suspect he still learned a lot while in Russia.

[George II]

44. He didn't go to "Russia" for his honeymoon, he went to the Soviet Union. And....

....you might want to check the good things he said about the Castro regime in Cuba, too.

[Herman4747]

45. Bernie spent at least part of his honeymoon in Yarsovl

From wikipedia: "Yaroslavl is a city and the administrative center of Yaroslavl Oblast, Russia, located 250 kilometers northeast of Moscow."

As to the Castro regime, I'll say something "good things" too about it: 1) It got rid of the Batista dictatorship, and 2) it greatly expanded access to health care for the Cuban citizens.

Hillary Clinton said some "good things" about Nancy Reagan. Does that disqualify Hillary for the presidency? How about this: When Hillary indicated that Nancy Reagan was at the forefront of speaking out about AIDS, Hillary was lying. So now does this "good thing" said disqualify Hillary?

[George II]

47. At the time Russia was one of the Republics in the Soviet Union.

[Herman4747]

48. Brilliant Observation! Just like Utah is 1 of the states...

...in the United States.

[ismnotwasm]

49. .

[grntuscarora]

21. Smart societies learn from their gadflies.

Foolish ones marginalize and mock them.

imo

[SunSeeker]

29. I am all for gadflies. They serve a useful function.

But they also happen to be very divisive and are not problem solvers. They are great at identifying and arguing against something, but actually doing something about a problem requires a different set of skills. Sanders does not have those skills, Hillary does.

[grntuscarora]

34. As you might expect,

I don't agree that HRC has the skills to address our problems--at least not in ways that will benefit the majority of Americans. She is very good at creating more problems, however.

I've waited a long time for change. I'm going with the gadfly (who also has a great deal of practical experience, i might add.)

But you could've guessed I'd say something like that

[arcane1]

27. "progressive change"?? You are not stupid enough to actually believe that.

I know you aren't.

[SunSeeker]

30. I am not stupid enough to believe the right wing lies about Hillary. nt

[arcane1]

32. There's no need to. The truth is bad enough n/t

[SunSeeker]

35. The truth is she is incredibly smart and has always fought for progressive change.

It goes back to when she was in high school and got involved in the civil rights movement after meeting Martin Luther King Jr. in person in Chicago. There is a reason she has such strong support among people of color. In 1972 she was registering poor Latinos to vote in the Rio Grande Valley of Texas, while Sanders was holed up in a shack in Vermont.

[Chan790]

46. I'm having a hard time deciding which is funnier.

Markos calling anybody delusional (I've long thought Kos was fairly deluded of reality himself) or anybody calling Hillary progressive. (She's about as progressive as Richard Nixon.)

A scheme to transfer more wealth to the 1%ers that own her is not necessarily a "workable plan that she has thought through", despite what the Clinton campaign wants you to believe.

[SidDithers]

16. DU rec for all kinds of reasons...nt

Sid

[Orsino]

22. Anything's possible, I suppose...

...but Weaver may be betting on neither candidate hitting the necessary threshold. That's the only way I see to make sense of the quote, but even then aren't supers likely to flip as needed? Assuming a deadlock seems the longest of long shots.

[SunSeeker]

33. There are only 2 Dem candidates.

This is not the GOP primary, where three candidates are splitting up the delegates. One of the two Dem candidates will win the majority of pledged delegates. If one of the two does not get the majority, that means the other one did. Weaver's claim that neither candidate may garner a majority is not only delusional but mathematically impossible.

[dsc]

37. that is like banking on coin floating off into space after you flip it

there are 2 candidates. Every delegate that is pledged will be pledged to one or the other it doesn't get any simpler than that. One or the other will have a majority of the pledged delegates.

[Peregrine Took]

31. I used to think DK was cool- then I woke up and realized it was really going backward and so 00's.

Thankfully, I was able to "Log out" and "unsubscribe" to their endless pleading emails.

[Lucinda]

38. KNR ~ You'd think Weaver would know better, but he may believe his own spin

Knowing how to work Vermont politics doesnt really mean you have a clue what goes on in a national election.

He has contributed next to nothing when it comes to Sanders campaign. The campaign has only come this far because of who Bernie is, and Bernie's ability to tap into great frustration many voters have with the government.

[George II]

41. That is unbelievable that he wouldn't know even that rudimentary fact and math!

Not only that, but his cohort Tad Devine was instrumental in devising the Superdelegate system years ago. He should spend a few minutes with Devine and get a basic education on delegate math.

But then again, Weaver's main claim to fame before this was owning a comic book store in Virginia, so maybe he's been spending too much time reading comics?