2016 Postmortem
Related: About this forum“The Fix” is in with new political spin: “predominantly non-black states”
Leave it to the Washington Post for the latest in anti-Sanders political spin. In an effort to stay one step ahead in declaring the resilient Bernie Sanders political campaign still dead, they have updated the political lexicon with an innovative new term to describe Sanders favoring sates. After Bernie swept Western Saturday with three monumental landslides, their regular political feature column The Fix characterized two of those battleground states, Alaska and Washington, as states with smaller black populations in its headline. Fair enough far as that goes, but that phrase must have proved a little clunky for use as a snappy adjective, and so by the second paragraph it came to this:
But Alaska and Washington had two characteristics that made them very friendly terrain for Sanders: They were caucuses in predominantly non-black states. And there aren't many more of those on the calendar.
I believe that may well be a first in American political reporting, a piercing new demographic insight. No one else, far as I can figure, has thought to differentiate American states in that manner before. How many predominantly non-black states do you figure there are in the United States of America? Without crunching all of the numbers, my own rough guess would be approximately 50.
It's not that I can't understand the point that The Fix was trying to make there which, simply put, is that Bernie Sanders has been losing most of the African American vote to Hillary Clinton so far, and that he has beaten her most consistently in caucus states that don't have high percentages of black voters, and there aren't many places like that still coming up. OK, that's a valid argument to advance, one that I will take on more frontally soon in a subsequent essay that will look at the overall contest between Clinton and Sanders from an important different angle. There I will address the argument that The Fix is tying to make. But what interests me here and now is what their careful and awkward twisting of words says about a shifting political narrative. It wasn't so long ago that pundits who routinely wrote off Bernie Sanders talked about how he only tended to do well in states with overwhelmingly white electorates. If fact that was conventional wisdom up until last week, if my memory serves me well.
Now for the first time we see a naked new political formulation (one that I predict won't grow legs because of how patently dumb it is). Yes friends behold! It's the predominantly non-black state! And Bernie Sanders it is said is having trouble winning them. Previously it was said that Bernie didn't do so well with minority voters in general just with (younger) whites. But Hawaii is only 24.3% white and Sanders won 70% of the vote there. He won 73% of the Washington vote which is over a quarter non-white. Sanders also won over 80% of the Alaskan vote which has a one third non-white population. But it is true that all three of these states have smaller black populations, it's just that none of them are overwhelmingly white, and thus it is no longer such a simple sell to say Bernie Sanders struggles to attract minority voters. Minorities, it turns out, is far too inclusive a term. It's those predominantly non-black states that Sanders still needs to work on.
SCantiGOP
(13,866 posts)With that stretch.
Nothing quoted in the article is inaccurate.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)It would be like me saying Bernie has not lost a single state (or HRC has not won a single state) with majority-Asian population. Accurate yes, but misleading.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)Very good reads. Thank you.
Baobab
(4,667 posts)Should save US companies a lot of money sourcing their labor wherever its cheapest.
No more discrimination against African/Asian/European/Australian companies.
Its going to be a huge change for the Global South companies especially being able to work here. Ive been reading a fair amount about it in the foreign press.
And if we can put in winning low bids, we can win those infrastructure jobs too. just like the New Deal, except international.
America is so generous. And all these countries are so nice to help us with our labour shortage.
CorporatistNation
(2,546 posts)"THEY" cannot understand WHY Bernie won't do what they tell him to do... "THEY" cannot understand WHY WE will not bend to their "wisdom..." "THEY" after all know what is best for us....
Number23
(24,544 posts)I'm loving the hell out of it too. And the fact that there appear to be a number of people that have serious issues with that muscle somehow makes me enjoy it even more.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,911 posts)And the impact of Black Lives Matter on both sides of the Democratic race has been outstanding. As far as the African American vote, it has been taken for granted far too long by Democrats in particular. I do not begrudge an inch of the power blacks are now gaining in the electorate, whether or not it helps my candidate or not.
Number23
(24,544 posts)black posters that support Clinton and sometimes just black people PERIOD, I really appreciate your comment and agree with every word.
That is an incredible statement you just made. Thanks for that.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,911 posts)I think Bernie has the right attitude about it and his supporters should have the same. I very much sense that when he realized he wasn't connecting as well as he wished with as many black voters as he wanted to, that he increased his efforts to connect with them. That is the correct response however well it works. I understand that he is in an election race and he needs to concentrate efforts where he thinks he can win the most votes, but regarding the African American community, like Hilary said regarding younger voters, he supports them even if they don't support him.
I can not second guess the decisions made by African Americans about how to concentrate their power for maximum effect. Blacks have been under represented and virtually ignored when priorities have been set literally for centuries now. If you or anyone else trusts Hillary more, or believe that she's your best vehicle for moving forward, so be it. More Power to you either way. And thank you for your kind words back.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)So they have no credibility when whining about it.
Number23
(24,544 posts)information voters," that our votes shouldn't count because so many black folks live in the South among many, many other vile and ignorant things.
Thank you so much for chiming in to show the OP and anyone else exactly what the problem is here. You in particular, seldom disappoint.
AgingAmerican
(12,958 posts)Because she sucks on actual issues
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)that is what I have seen--the intent to sow racial division.
And it is despicable and destructive. Never imagined I would see that here from people calling themselves Democrats.
deathrind
(1,786 posts)libtodeath
(2,888 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)libtodeath
(2,888 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)lunatics. So directing that question at me or any other minority not only ignores reality but is beyond ridiculous.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)That is what is ridiculous.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Particularly as my post about black people showing some muscle was the impetus behind this "reality" that you keep alluding to but never come right out and espouse?
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)Like it or not that is a reality.
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)She is running as a defacto incumbent so at this point should be 20 plus points ahead of either.
Number23
(24,544 posts)and have no basis in anything.
She is beating her current opponent -- handily -- and wins against future ones. Sorry that seems to upset you so.
And your posts still do not explain how agitated you obviously became over me mentioning black muscle. What is your issue with that?
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)this primary if Cruz or Trump wins.
I keep trying to get you to explain exactly what upsets you so much but you keep slipping, sliding and skating around the issue. Which says to me either you have no point to make or the point you wish to make is one that you know to be bigoted, ignorant or some combination of both.
So if you have nothing to say or nothing you WISH to say, why do you keep posting and not saying anything even remotely worth saying?
libtodeath
(2,888 posts)Too bad,so sad,bye bye
Number23
(24,544 posts)every other post of yours in this thread. So much strength of your convictions! When requested to spit out EXACTLY what you are trying to say, you suddenly do the "bye bye!" crap.
You guys are funny. Even when you think you aren't saying anything, you still say so much.
Number23
(24,544 posts)libtodeath
(2,888 posts)Tom Rinaldo
(22,911 posts)It's been going on for a long time, obviously with millions of exceptions, but still true. No doubt Trump and Cruz have overwhelmingly white, often older, support. That is clear as glass, and I'm a white older male.
I do find it heartening that Bernie Sanders is showing some ability to attract white working class male voters without resorting to n racist dog whistles or backing off in advocating for racial and social justice in any way. RFK was able to do that too, after he was killed some of his white supporters swung right into the Wallace camp. What an opportunity America missed when RFK died. Historically in America strong economic populism has been able to bridge significant racial divides. Organized Labor was a good example of that in some cases, though racism still found some homes within it.
Number23
(24,544 posts)sooner.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)And considering where/when he started, it's been amazing, even as I continue to agree with bravenak as to things the campaign could have done better.
BTW, sorry/grateful for your dealing with the above.
Number23
(24,544 posts)Folks do as they want. And as has become incredibly obvious, there are repercussions to their behavior. All up and down the electorate.
But none of that is your doing. You have never been anything but kind, even when disagreeing.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I didn't mean I felt responsible, I meant it sucks pond scum you had to deal with it and I appreciate that you did. Plus I can't resist a Sondheim reference.
https://m.
OMG, Colbert? Who knew??
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)Do you also urge Muslims to "deal with (their) own?"
Number23
(24,544 posts)if Trump becomes president? As if black people and not the scores of white people supporting Trump are the real problem? As if black people are the problem and not Trump's racism and the white people that his racism resonates with?
I can't tell what's worse. The needless propensity so many of you have to constantly argue about fuck all or the paternalistic nonsense that's constantly touted as discourse on this web site. That poster's "point" was crap but shockingly, it's MY post you have an issue with. I really don't know what your problem is. Actually, that's not true.
Lizzie Poppet
(10,164 posts)I kind of expected a non-responsive "answer" from someone who actually seems to buy into "collective guilt" inanity. The personal insult and disparagement of the site (that you nevertheless feel compelled to read and post on) are kind of a no-extra-charge bonus!
Don't try and be "subtle." You're not good at it. Just go ahead and call me a racist. I promise I won't alert.
Number23
(24,544 posts)from everyone else.
I gave you an answer. If you don't like what I said, I GENUINELY don't understand why you think I'd care. I've already told you multiple times that I've seen enough of your ignorant posts on racial issues to not want to discuss anything about race with you. And yet... HERE YOU ARE. You have certainly learned well from your buddies here, I'll give you that. They like to argue about fuck all too.
But I am so genuinely touched by your concern for where I do and do not post! Who knew you were such a fan??
And why would I need to be "subtle" when folks are all too happy to out themselves??? All of that adrenaline and testosterone you guys drench this board with every day is at least good for something!
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Number23
(24,544 posts)I was really pleasantly surprised by his intelligent and civil response upthread. But I knew the intelligence and civility was likely to be short lived and as you can see, others made a point of trying to shoo it away as quickly as possible. As they ALWAYS have to these days.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,911 posts)I didn't claim there were factual mistakes though, did I? What they wrote could be called interpretative analysis. It wasn't exactly had news was it? So I find how they chose to frame their chosen points of interest. Feel free, of course, not to.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)It's not a good look. I am all kinds of mortified at the anger about analysis of demographics.
Number23
(24,544 posts)But the fact that the people who hate it the most can't do a damn thing about it makes it oddly satisfying too.
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)They wanted to believe some places, and some people do not matter. Astounding how many threads try to count people out.
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)Tom Rinaldo
(22,911 posts)But seriously, have you ever seen any state described as "predominantly non-black"?
bettyellen
(47,209 posts)making a distinction. Hawaii is an outlier for a lot of reasons (as is AK) so they are trying to find a pattern when too much else is going on.
Aerows
(39,961 posts)seems to be an outlier. ID - outlier. UT - outlier. AK - outlier. HI outlier. WA - outlier.
Eventually, Hillary Clinton proponents are going to come to grips with the fact that she has honest competition, and she isn't just going to coast into the Presidency.
Despite the strange things that have gone on during this campaign season, things that went in Hillary's favor, Bernie Sanders is still here, still viable, and building momentum.
I'm still confused why anybody would want to elect Hillary Clinton to be the leader of our nation. I don't see the appeal of electing someone that lies out of both sides of their mouth, and brings nothing to the table in policy positions.
JonLeibowitz
(6,282 posts)bettyellen
(47,209 posts)Last edited Sun Mar 27, 2016, 08:21 PM - Edit history (1)
not say it was majority white (as a lot of people here have posted) they were talking about Pac NW.
AK is also hard to figure, as their economy has absolutely tanked the last couple of years, and that is going to change things. Both states are kind of proud of their "outsider" status too- so, just saying really tricky for writers to make any thematic connections with those states being 2/3 of what they are discussing. Analyzing them together was a mistake.
I don't see the great appeal in any politician, really. I think they all say misleading shit, and all of it is calculated to an extent.
Ultimately, it's all about what you calculate they can and will do for us. I don't buy the Hillary lies meme. Culturally, women are too rarely trusted (that has been the subject of study) and so many men who had the same positions were lauded here plenty- by DUers, by Susan Sarandon and loads of other lefties. I give that the side eye. All of a sudden the entire party is under the bus, except for one man- and Warren, but her too sometimes. The hard turn against all Dems baffles and concerns me. I am a pragmatic person who thinks the revolution would need a whole lot of interest in congress too, and so far, I am not seeing it. We suck at voting.
I'm glad I really don't have to get off the fence for a long time. I think I'd have to live in DC to have a more useless primary vote, and I am glad of it. Also glad it is not a caucus over here, LOL.
brush
(53,743 posts)IMO it's a sly form of dog whistle. Why even go there?
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)The rage, that is. Just look at how anything and everything Sanders says about race is blown way out proportion. And it has been happening since he joined the race. The anger I see about his use of a word like ghetto is not reasonable. Nor are threads that claim Sanders thinks all black people are poor. Or that he thinks economics will cure racism. There are no innocents in this discussion.
potone
(1,701 posts)the lengths they will go to to make Bernie sound like he only appeals to a narrow slice of the electorate.
Yep and the rethugs are excellent at it too. The elites have their designated nominee and if the sheeple dare veer off the path they use the MSM to make it sound as if the people's candidate only appeals to the narrow slice. Sick of it.
dogman
(6,073 posts)Oldest trick in the book. The Corporations and elite have used this ploy to advance their own interest forever. The GOP uses it all the time with promoting fear of the "other". It comes naturally since businesses have used this tactic to fight unionization and consumer protection. The constant chatter yesterday on CNN and MSNBC were similarly pointing t the whiteness of Wisconsin while ignoring the diversity in the three states you cited. If Hillary's campaign wants to turn a blind eye to further their own purpose, they will have to live with the consequences when it is used against them in the Fall.
amborin
(16,631 posts)the "new" new left against the new left.
Anyone just has to look at the facts to see the massive and increasing income and wealth inequality in this country.
Bernie has concrete plans to address the many facets of this and other problems. Whereas HRC has in the past consistently acted in ways that exacerbate this inequality and her actions have caused so many of the other problems, such as discriminatory sentencing, etc.
So, the establishment is desperate to attack Bernie, who threatens their grip on economic power. What better way than to use racial politics. HRC did this in 2008 and earlier.
good article here:
http://www.salon.com/2016/02/19/hillary_clintons_cynical_race_appeals_the_revenge_of_neoliberal_identity_politics/
Viva_La_Revolution
(28,791 posts)Kalidurga
(14,177 posts)Finally I have white privilege.
#BernieMadeMeWhite
ljm2002
(10,751 posts)But I have to say, your 3rd paragraph made me laugh out loud:
Yeah, I'd put it at approximately 50 also. MSM, boo, hiss!
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Zaid Jilani ?@ZaidJilani 1h1 hour ago
This election I learned that black voters over the age of 45 in the deep south were the only racial minorities #BernieMadeMeWhite
(And from what we have seen posted here, TRUE. or truish?)
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)L. ?@tokyovampires · 2h2 hours ago
.@dilemmv I started #berniemademewhite along with other POC supporters. Stop pretending we don't exist.
It's good to see this.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)as irrelevant to the current statistics that AA support Hillary, and that indigenous americans and Poltynesian decent peoples were not the same kind of minority.
Ya, no shit Sherlock. And I'm ready to be shit all over with my observation:
First, congrats to the Black Lives Matter movement. This is so important. I'm also excited (along with other posters here) to see some flexing of muscle. I truly hope that some significant change is coming with the new administration. And, everyone here agrees that can NOT be a Republican White House.
Hillary did get a significant lead on Sanders, and courted all the right people with her message of inevitability. (now, here's the part where I'm going to get in trouble - and happy to be spanked accordingly). Hillary made the right kind of appeal which has equated to AA's believing if she, inevitable, they would own her. And that appeal was made to pastors and other high ranking religious figures to a community that historically adopted the Christian faith for political reasons.
Let's look at the Native American communities. Where did they go (if they survived) to politically connect? Into locked up communities that had/have no power and no 'establishment church' vehicle to ride on into the future. Same as the Polynesians/Asians in Hawaii. Chopped out.
K - ready for my whipping. Pants down.
Thing is, that inevitable thing may need a re-evaluation.
thereismore
(13,326 posts)you are white.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)and impacts of climate change living next to and with the environment that was yours to care for and keep in balance. Unlike AA's who did not have that luxury of making it a priority for survival here. I am sure that deep knowledge is still there. But first things first, and I totally understand your desire to have your voice back.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)When is the last time you have seen this kind of racial division within the Democratic Party (or any party really) where it seems as if the competing factions within the party are pitting intra-party racial group vs racial group such as we have seen in this primary?
It seems bizarre to me. I never thought it would be like this.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)Nixon's Southern Strategy, This is a new version
SusanCalvin
(6,592 posts)I hope not.
nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)though surrogates. They did another version of this in 2008. Some of us remember. And it might be backfiring already.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)but we know that Hillary was not beyond a little race baiting in 2008, and we know Bernie's civil rights record.
haikugal
(6,476 posts)Racist scum and Bernie is just an old white man with nothing but more of the same to offer, and you know (whisper) he's one of them....but Bernie supporters are THE worst EVAH!
It's spin, neocon spin....welcome to the third way playbook.
Hydra
(14,459 posts)Team Hill used BLM as a tool for the purpose of showcasing her as the only candidate who cared about Black issues. The problem came when Hillary botched her actual meetings with BLM, which were basically softballs, and she somehow missed and came off looking like someone who had more important people to talk to (with money).
At that point, Team Hill turned on BLM and shoved a knife in their backs. Since then they still keep trying to wedge while not even pretending to care about the issues involved.
It was and still is horrifying to watch. I never thought we were in a post racial society, but we're supposed to be trying, right?
Tom Rinaldo
(22,911 posts)I am most used to seeing this type thing flare below the national level in the Democratic Party, often inside of major cities like NY, Chicago, and LA, where different racial/ethnic coalitions jockey for political dominance. Not surprising really given the demographics of many major cities. So while that hasn't exactly been rare in cities, until fairly recently at the State and most certainly at the national level white domination was mostly assured (outside of the Deep South where Democrats are nowhere without African Americans, but often nowhere even with them none the less). As we move toward being a nation where the majority will be made up of minorities that may be starting to change, but my hope is that younger generations will be less race focused, in a positive inclusive way.
Bread and Circus
(9,454 posts)especially in economic issues. I also thought progressive liberal whites and African Americans were stong natural allies, with the Obama coalition being a prime example.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)especially if you align with the inevitable winner who promises to be your "dog"
Vote2016
(1,198 posts)states but will right her ship in the Washington DC primary?
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)There is a line you can't cross without ending up going total Marion Berry. Remember him? People wondered how he could keep getting elected when he had been convicted of all sorts of crimes, exposed as corrupt, etc. The answer was racial politics. He told the voters in DC that they could never trust white politicians and officials, that everything they had they owed to him, and failure to return him to office would allow the white man to come in and take away all they had gained. He could say these things and be believed because there was a grain of truth to it. The overwhelmingly black DC population had been subjected to various attempts to "reform" them out of their jobs, take away funding for programs that benefited them, etc. So the white man, aka The Man, was lurking out there, and Berry stood between his people and The Man. To an extent. It was true enough that people believed it and kept electing Berry to public office.
Some candidates like to use a version of the Berry tactic. Of course, they have to go easy because they don't benefit from an electorate that's over 90 percent black. But they can still claim, "I love you. I always loved you. I will love you forever. I fight for you, and I am the only one who will." Some of these candidates are black, as you would expect, but some are white, too. You might think black voters would reject such an approach from a white politician, since it could easily be phony, opportunistic pandering. But it's not just pandering. It's a deal, a bargain. It amounts to, "Help elect me and I will make sure you get some attention for your issues, not just lip service but real action of some kind. I will also help raise money to elect black candidates, and I will campaign with you if you want me to."
Now there is nothing unusual about any of this. All politicians say, "Vote for me and I will look out for your interests." We don't even raise an eyebrow when this is based building a new military facility, widening the freeway, subsidizing agriculture or mining, etc. We only get nervous when it's done on the basis of race. But we do get nervous. Our party realizes an enormous benefit from its close ties to black voters, and this generally causes little problem, except from the other party when they babble on about welfare dependency and such nonsense. But we may be getting a little deeper into racial politics than we have before, because we're having debates about things such as Stockholm Syndrome: you accused me vs. no I didn't. When we see articles in the popular press that describe Sanders support as coming from "predominantly non-black" voters, we need to think about how deeply and intensely we want to be involved with racial politics. So far, generally speaking, it's been a good thing, but it's a potential wedge issue.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)and will harm any chance of unity to destroy the real threat in November. A very dangerous path. Real disagreements are fine, but this is ridiculous and fabricated by some junior hack, or an old senile hack. Doesn't matter. It is WRONG
catnhatnh
(8,976 posts)I can judge it's merits easily-it is followed by (mostly) civilized political discussion and debate. This is rare.
Tom Rinaldo
(22,911 posts)Obviously I'm glad to see the media narrative about Bernie's "overwhelmingly white" support" being challenged, but I am also sympathetic to the anger some Black Hillary supporters feel when it seems to them like they are being dismissed as not thoughtful enough or disloyal to progressive ideals by some because of who they choose to support. It can be hard to discuss any race centered topic in public with civility across racial lines, but as conscientious Democrats it is essential that we at least try to.
dchill
(38,449 posts)But much harder to figure why they DO want her.
jillan
(39,451 posts)of the rest of us that live in America too.
beedle
(1,235 posts)they were actually talking about Bernie's weekend, but the spin was, and I kid you not, that he won big, but "two of the states were majority white" --- Eh, yeah, no kidding .... there are only 4 states that don't have a clear white majority (Texas, New Mexico, and California) all still remain to have their say in the primaries so, so far the only state to have voted with a clear non-white majority went over to Bernie, but the big news is that two of the other states he swept had majority whites?
Couldn't the headlines have just as reasonable read "Clinton still fails to win a primary in a non-white majority state"?