I would love to know what idiot on Obama's campaign staff told him to just have a conversation

[bigdarryl]

With the American people in the debate. They probably took the calculated guess and said go lightly because we are ahead and we already have defined Romney. As supposed experts in running campaigns they should know polls change like the fucking wind and they also should have realized Romney has been doing nothing but practicing for debates.And that was going to be the biggest audience instead of some stupid 30 second ad that most likely only 1 to 2 million people will see

[Voice for Peace]

1. the first time you face your enemy, best to scrutinize his tactics from a relatively safe spot,

let him exhaust and expose himself.

Above all do not spill your resources in the first battle
when you know it's the first of many. Instead, gather
information. Know the enemy's strategy.

Obama, looking down at the podium, was intensely
focused on listening to Romney's words.

Romney's arm waving, verbal & facial expressions
and overall frantic spiritedness were a huge distraction
from his words, the amazing flipflops he was championing.
Obama was focused on listening to what he was saying.

I don't think Obama BEGAN with such a strategy, but
do believe that's the choice he made, wisely, early on.
There was no debating with frothing and lying.

Could he have been stronger? Maybe.
Could he have been bolder? Maybe
Was he tired after almost 4 years of this BS? no doubt
Was he taken by surprise by the flood of astonishing lies? no doubt
Did he pass the presidential muster test? Absolutely

[geckosfeet]

5. Yes yes and yes. But....

aggressive posture and dominating strategy is needed to win a conflict - or a debate.

I am not a campaign strategist, but clearly the president was not even in a defensive mode, mush less offense. He seemed detached and not participating.

Substance? That's at least as important as appearance in these debates. Both must be recognized and treated as the currency of the engagement.

[Voice for Peace]

7. I think he came into the debate with something on his mind that was distracting him

Something had happened.
He was distracted, not detached.
I heard Michelle was giving him looks of concern before the debate.

And then Romney's full frontal attack flabbergasted him.

"Flabbergast"
now there's a word.

[RBInMaine]

14. Agree with much here, but he should have still been more energetic. 2 more coming. He will be.

[RC]

39. A voice of reason on DU?

Thank you. That is getting kinda rare lately.

Too many here are upset because Obama did not react on National TV as they would have in their home or a bar somewhere?
Get a grip people, Obama is the Head of State on the most militarily powerful nation on this planet and some expect him to act or react like Joe 6 pack? That was the last president, the one that never was, that caused this mess.

[mgcgulfcoast]

2. i agree

playing it safe is always a strategy for losing.

[Voice for Peace]

4. I have to disagree on account of my own post

which I like a lot.

Playing it safe is not always a strategy for losing.
It's often a strategy for staying alive, and gathering
crucial information in order to regroup & plan the next
battle.

[geckosfeet]

8. If you have the luxury of time and are not being hammered by your opponent

you can stand back let them flail away. But when damage is being inflicted and the information that you are gathering is something you already know, knew or should have known, you have committed a tactical error. Playing it safe is part of the strategy. It is NOT the overarching tactic. When you choose to engage it must be decisive.

The debates must be seen as tactical engagements where there are clear objectives to be achieved. Gathering information must be done before the engagement. During the engagement you act based on preparation, training and discipline.

[Voice for Peace]

13. I don't disagree, but

it's not easy to gather information in advance on a shapeshifter.

Even great warriors and strategists make tons of mistakes,
they learn as they go.

[geckosfeet]

17. You know - and the staff knew - the r0mnb0t IS a liar - a shapeshifter.

Devise appropriate tactics.

Devise a back up plan.

Devise a back up to the backup.

Practice and Execute. If nothing else, you will be, and appear to be prepared.

Yes - great warriors and strategists people make mistakes. Survival depends on the magnitude of the mistake. If you survive, you have the opportunity to apply the learnings.

I am praying that the Obama/Biden campaign survives and thrives the next engagements.

[Voice for Peace]

24. Well I guess they've learned.. and I think they'll be ok.

There was a funny piece somewhere about Romney
winning the next debate with his strong stand in favor
of socialism, universal health care, etc. etc...

very funny, but not that big of a stretch from what
actually happened.

I think they didn't anticipate he'd shift his shape so
drastically & aggressively. Now they know.

[mgcgulfcoast]

21. good points, but

i dont think you can throw in the towel in a debate one month before the election. the obama team handed the debate to romney on a silver platter. i dont understand it and cant explain it.

[Voice for Peace]

25. don't agree and I'm surprised you view it that way.

Nobody has thrown any towels in, LOL

[Bluenorthwest]

35. Yes, but your post calls live TV in front of 60 million people 'a relatively safe spot'

as well. And there is nothing safe about live tv. Not relatively, not at all. So your concept of what is 'safe' is a bit unusual.

[Voice for Peace]

40. by safe spot I was speaking more of

a safe spot in his own psyche, a centered place,
a non-combative place. He never retreated, nor
defended. He stood his ground calmly & I
thought quite patiently as Mitt revealed his own
nasty character, hyper and bullying his way through
the debate.

Rather than to choose to engage the beast,
which at that moment was likely perceived as
futile -- or maybe he just wasn't feeling strong in
that moment -- Obama withheld his energies & focused
on listening, not on arguing or defending.

I don't think he could have taken the offensive, even
if he had tried. Mitt was energized not for debate but
for lying and bulldozery, flimflammery, flabbergastery.
He was like a lawnmower gone amok.

Obama recognized this, I'm sure. He will be better
prepared for new dimensions of the shapeshifter in
the next debate. It's also going to be much harder
for Mitt to fool the town hall folks no matter how
much adderall he takes. I can just see him telling
them, as he did Jim Lehrer: sorry, folks.. I like you,
but I'm going to treat you like shit.

(Although I hear he's getting some training on how
to appear as an engaged and compassionate person.)

The secret is in the followup questions... see:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1487727)



All of the above is my personal opinion and I make
no claims to being right about anything.

[NCLefty]

3. That was like SO 4 days ago *smacks bubblegum*

:p

[Iggy]

6. LOL... WHO is the Bigger Idiot?

here's the prob: A true leader has to take advantage of teachable moments.. regarding Rmoney's claim $90 Billion was spent on incentives/tax breaks for green industries-- allegedly this was spent all in ONE year-- Obama was mute.

WHY is that?

Why did Obama not point out credible studies show the shift to alternative energy will in fact create thousands of new jobs? why did Obama not point out this paradigm shift has to happen soon.. i.e. CLIMATE CHANGE???

uhhh, wow, folks. when you've got the attention of what? 60 million people who care about what is going on-- and where we are headed as a nation, you don't just skip over teachable moments-- just because it's politically expedient to avoid talking about the Solyndra fail.

[Voice for Peace]

9. well... you try doing it, then

on the spot in front of 60 million people ..
maybe he had a brain blankout
maybe he just had received bad news an hour earlier.

maybe he unexpectedly found himself
confronted by a frothing, babbling half-human creature
who had appeared out of nowhere
unrecognizable, armed with a different type of
weapon than had been expected, and
as he said, the next day,
it was not the real mitt romney,
the one he'd prepared to debate.

I imagine it was like a weird bad acid trip
to be up on that stage that night;
and you want him to
come up with all the right facts
and zingers at exactly the right moments,

as we all wish he would have,
could have and did.
But it doesn't surprise or disappoint me a bit that he didn't.

I would have walked off the stage, and taken the first train to obscurity.
I don't have that kind of fortitude.

[lunatica]

11. Maybe President Obama isn't as clever and brilliant as you are

[Iggy]

18. MISSING the Point

clue: remove rose/partisan colored glasses.

then we'll talk.

[lunatica]

20. Just because you think you rock

Doesn't mean anyone else is falling all over themselves admiring you.

[Iggy]

22. I Guess This Writer is Also "Bashing" the POTUS??

Obama's listless performance during the debate didn't even amount to a half-throated defense of initiatives that will set the foundations for broad economic growth in the future. Instead, he allowed his Republican challenger, Mitt Romney, to flagrantly misrepresent them. In that respect, he fell far short of the standards set by two of his Democratic predecessors. Bill Clinton would never have let Romney get away with it; nor would the Franklin Roosevelt of 1936, who mocked his GOP opponents for the "smooth evasion" with which they assured Americans: "We believe in social security; we believe in work for the unemployed; we believe in saving homes; cross our hearts and hope to die."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-hiltzik-20121006,0,573517.column

[lunatica]

27. Is that your excuse?

Others are bashing Obama too?

[Iggy]

41. LOL.. NO Excuses Needed

There are dozens of writers/pundits making the same point as me.. including Chris
Matthews on MSNBC who, after the debate asked "WHERE was Obama?!!".

I rest my case.

[TroyD]

32. Interesting - I just posted that FDR 1936 clip yesterday

It has its own thread.

[lunatica]

10. By all means continue to trash President Obama

This is fucking unbelievable.

[AC_Mem]

12. the President

Did look distracted. There are many things he deals with that we are not privy to know due to security. To me, the very fact that he appeared so ... different. Might be due to something quite significant going on behind the scenes. This was not our normal president, something happened.

[RBInMaine]

19. Well, I think they calculated to "hold their own", feel out RobMe, and try to have him hang himself

with a bunch of LIES and GAFFES. Now, the problem was Obama went TOO FAR with that strategy and did need to appear at least somewhat more engaged and energetic and counterpunch a bit more. They knew full well that RobMe would be coming in guns ablazing. (Or should I say BULLSHIT ablazing.)

However, they have been WINNING the post debate war on the internet and in the ads and on the stump, and Mittens isn't getting much of a bounce. Chances are that RobMe was going to get a little bit of a bounce anyway as challengers usually do in the first debate.

TeamObama now also has MUCH more material for debate #2 (part of why he was making so many notes - writing down Mitt's BULLSHIT to fact check and use AGAINST HIM for next time).

So now we go into the VEEP debate, and then two more debates. And think about it, Obama's performance can only IMPROVE. What about Mitt? He has already peaked.

[TroyD]

15. September Jobs Report?

Perhaps the President got advance news of the unemployment rate falling to its lowest level of his term at 7.8% and was overcome with shock and relief that he was able to accomplish that despite a GOP Congress trying to obstruct & slow down the economy.

At that moment, Obama realized, "My gosh, I'm actually going to get re-elected!"

[WI_DEM]

16. are we going to have yet another day of DU obsessing about a debate that was 4 days ago?

It's done and over with and nothing can be done about it. Let's move, well, forward.

[whistler162]

23. And 4 days out what is everyone

talking about?

Romney taking a hit out on Big Bird!

[Voice for Peace]

26. so true! Big Bird won it for the team

[lunatica]

28. Actually it was Romney who won it for our team

He's the one who fired Big Bird.

[Cha]

43. Romney threatening to fire Big Bird with a

shit eating grin plastered on his face.

[RichGirl]

29. I think he was right....

I think the American people wanted to hear two men calmly discussing their differences.

I don't think ANYBODY wanted to hear two LONG attack ads!

Sad that the one who is the loudest, most obnoxious and lies the most is the winner!

[left is right]

30. Romney wanted to characterize Obama as an angry black man

Unfit to be president. While, Obama may have seemed a bit stiff he successfully avoided that trap. I would bet that 60% of the zingers that were practiced during Romney’s debate practice was aimed at Obama being too angry to be presidential. Had Obama shown any passion the millions of low information/undecided white viewers would have reacted with alarm.

[TroyD]

31. But don't most people oppose the angry black man meme?

This is 2012, and 53% of the country voted for Obama in 2008.

I don't think they can get away with that anymore except in Republican regions.

[moobu2]

34. I've said that ever since that night

It's a very real problem too. If President Obama had acted just a little to aggressive, FOX News would have played those Jeremiah Wright Tapes none stop for weeks. It's just an added problem along with everything else.

[morningfog]

36. Weak excuse. Obama has been President for 4 years.

He is a known entity. I could (maybe) buy that in the 2008 race, but no more.

[brush]

48. Did you get the "boy" thing?

Romney inserted his dog whistle moment with his comment of raising his five "boys" so he knows what a lie is. This was his comeback to something the President said. Now no one I know who has grown sons calls them his boys anymore. He calls them his sons. This was a sly way of calling the President "boy." Disgusting! And Sununu followed up on the nod-to-the-racist-base meme the next day by saying the president was lazy and not very bright. Talking about a black man that way is the equivalent of calling him the N word, and they know. Make no mistake. These bastards have bared their fangs are going all-in with the racial code words to put Barack Obama in his place. I mean, how dare this man not know his place by occupying the White House and refusing to give it up to someone who rightfully belongs there. You'll show him, right, Romney and Sununu?

[brush]

33. Another question

Who told Romney to come out like a flim-flamming, shape-shifting, pathological liar? With Romney's performance a few days in the rearview, and the with the disgusting gushing over it by even Msnbc pundits, who I think influenced and kinda told many to think it was a disaster for the President, we can now clearly see that Romney showed himself to be a mendacious bully who quickly etchasketched all of his previous campaign positions for a one night sugar high. And we all know those highs don't last very long, less than 24 hours as it turns out, what with the fact checkers reports on Romney's 28 whoppers in 37 minutes, and then the jobs report showing an unemployment rate under the 8%. Oh the humanity, huh, repugs. I still say the President stayed calm, truthful and substantive. That, I guess, is not enough for even the left-leaning pundits who went a little crazy that night with their over-the-top bashing of the President.

[Cha]

44. Actually that's a better question, brush! Who told

Romney to threaten Big Bird before 67 Million People?

[brush]

46. Hah!

What a line, Cha. I love it.

[creon]

37. good theatre

I thought that the debate was good theatre.
Romney did what he had to do: put on a show. He had to motivate his base with a 'passionate' performance.
If he did not, the game was over.

PBO probably underplayed it a little too much. I think that underplaying it was a good idea.

I think that there are very few 'undecided'; people who do not know for whom they will vote.
I think that the true undecided are who have not decided if they will even vote.

[magical thyme]

38. I don't think any "idiot" talked Obama into anything

and I don't think they took a calculated guess at anything.

There was no question that Romney was practicing for months.
There was no question that Romney was going to try to "lure" Obama into traps, to which Romney was going to reply with "zingers."
Romney's campaign team was so full of hubris, they announced their plan in advance.

In the face of a pathological, serial liar, Obama's campaign chose not to engage with the serial liar and waste an evening in "said so. did not. did so. did not."

Pathological, serial liars are infuriating to honest people because they lie with such complete aplomb. They can face absolute proof that the sky most certainly is not moldy swiss cheese, and they still will smilingly insist that yes it is. They get off on making you crazy with their lies. Fighting over lies empowers them. And in this case, it would have entangled Obama in the many traps they had laid for him and dragged him right into the bullshit Romney was dumping.

Instead, they chose to use Obama's time to get his vision across as much as possible. That is all, and that was enough. They announced in advance that Obama was not going to try to wow anybody; that he would give a workable, workmanlike speech on his plans. Romney tried to bait him off course and failed.

They were not going to knock Romney out cold in round 1, and they knew it. They weren't going to give Romney an "If the glove don't fit; you must acquit" moment by going for a "Perry Mason" moment. Real life don't work that way. Sometimes things come together and it happens, but you don't strategize for such moments. That has been the GOP's and Romney's repeated mistake. They keep aiming for "Perry Mason" moments, but this is real life and it's not following their teevee script. If the moment happens, you're prepared and grab it and are grateful for it. But you don't strategize around it any more than your retirement strategy would be to win the lottery by such and such a date.

The wind is behind Obama's back. It shifted briefly after the debate. But it's already behind his back again, in the jobs numbers, in the deficit news, and in Romney's outed lies and huge missteps.

The takeaway from the debate is a big reminder that Romney likes firing people. So much so, that he threatened to fire his host and Big Bird.

[cr8tvlde]

42. It has popularized a new term "Gish Gallop" and many of us recognize it from "inelegant" divorces

or combative legal encounters. It's really a common political/legal maneuver, just never caught on national television.

And the Firer-in-Chief definitely showed his Scroogish* prowess ... Lehrer and Big Bird ... to the unemployment line, pronto.

*It's the only word that fits, sorry.

[brush]

47. Well reasoned post

Thanks for putting this up, magical thyme. I'll be looking out for more of your posts.

[ailsagirl]

45. "It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop

[cecilfirefox]

49. I'm sort of with you, this debate plan fell flat. Expect it to be balls to walls next time. And

be sure to watch Joe go!!