Bernie COULD tear Clinton to shreds... so why doesn't he?

[basselope]

There are so many opportunities for Bernie to completely destroy her on the debate stage.

When talking about influence from contributions he could point out her flipped position on the bankruptcy bill after receiving donations from credit card companies.

He could point out that Dodd-Frank is basically useless because by the time you are using it, it is already too late and her waving like a flag is laughable.

I'm not talking about personal attacks... real issue attacks to point out her lies about his votes, her inconsistencies and ever "evolving" positions.

So why doesn't he?

Because Bernie Sanders is a true mensch, who most important of all wants to make sure that a democrat is elected in November and while these types of attacks may score him points.. heck, they may even tip the balance in his favor, they become republican attack ads later.

You can see it in his eyes... he is choosing what to say very carefully, not just based on getting his positions across, but also in a way to not irreparably harm the person who may be the nominee.

Clinton has no such respect or dignity. She was vicious towards Obama in 2008 and is equally so now.

If she learns nothing else from this campaign, it should be how to handle herself with real dignity.

[JRLeft]

1. Because she will probably be the nominee

[basselope]

2. A lot closer to maybe than probably at this point.

But, still.. even when it was pretty Obama was going to be the nominee.. Clinton showed no such respect to him.

[dreamnightwind]

8. Correct

[joshcryer]

36. That is flatly false.

Clinton busted her ass for Obama in 2008 to help get him elected.

And both Bill Clinton, even after the sour grapes, busted his ass for Obama in 2012, and gave what is considered one of the greatest ad hoc speeches of all time.

Like it or not Bill and Hillary are party politic. (This is also why her anti-establishment argument is utterly stupid, but that's another discussion.)

[TheBlackAdder]

46. I could drop a lot of negatives too, but I'm not going to be a Republican Operative either.

.


Besides a few common posts, I am not dropping the stuff I came across from my continuing Poli-Sci research.

While the GOP are in no doubt posession of many of these things, I'm not going to remind them or clue in others.


Sanders is keeping the Democratic options open, to create a viable party no matter how things go.


.

[onecaliberal]

3. She doesn't care about any of the little people, she has such a breathtaking

Lack of respect, it's working against her.

[azmom]

4. She is a nasty piece of work.

I lost all respect for her.

[AzDar]

5. ...

[Melurkyoulongtime]

26. +billion nt

[Recursion]

6. Because he knows she'll probably have to run in November? (nt)

[JDPriestly]

33. No. Because he puts the interests of the country above his own.

Hillary has a horrible personality. She is not likable.
It's sad, but she has an arrogance that is utterly off-putting.

She changes her mind about issues so easily. That's because she really doesn't think things through.

Bernie on the other hand, thinks things through very carefully. He is just more principled in his thought. He really does have better judgment than Hillary.

Bernie is very genuinely troubled by the extent of the imprisonment and incarceration in our country. Hillary???? I doubt that she would be discussing it if it weren't a topic of great concern for Bernie.

Hillary just does not have the compassion that Bernie has.

I realize that my statements sound very subjective. But apparently at least a lot of people in New Hampshire agree with my take.

I suspect that had the individual votes been accurately counted and totaled, Bernie would also have won Iowa. Unfortunately, there is no accurate record of the popular vote in Iowa.

We shall see what happens, but I think Bernie's performance in the debate tonight was very strong.

Clearly he had a cough, but in particular, his statement about Kissinger was excellent.

And he does state how he will fund his proposals. Hillary is wrong on that claim. It's Hillary's rather inadequate proposals that are not funded in a realistic way. She has this vague idea that she will raise the taxes on rich people -- who are in many cases her donors. Good luck to those who believe she will succeed at that.

Bernie could succeed because I think he will be tough on changing the tax code so that the rich and the corporations pay at least a part of what they should pay. That's because he is willing to risk "free" trade agreements to get tax agreements.

I used to joke that the country we should invade is the Cayman Islands. That is not a serious proposal, but I think Bernie will figure out a way to focus the energy of the IRS on taxing the corporate profits of companies that do business with and in the US.

I personally think it is time for federal corporate law. States should still be able to have some of their own corporate law. But some federal laws that preempt state laws should be passed that define the rights and responsibilities of corporations, at least the basic things. I think that Sanders might be able to get some basic law on that passed by Congress. Seems to me it should be made clear that under federal law, that the constitutional rights of corporations and businesses are not those of persons as defined by the Bill of Rights. In particular, commercial speech rights have always been assessed in the courts as protected only with a rational basis analysis. I do not think that those commercial speech rights should be elevated to the level of the speech rights of persons as that term is used in the Bill of Rights. I find the Citizens United decision confusing for that reason. But I haven't studied that decision very carefully. Still, I think that Congress, in this day and age when interstate commerce is the norm, should pass a federal law that preempts state law with regard to corporations.

Bernie is not talking about that, but I think he could get some consensus to pass such a law.

[TTUBatfan2008]

7. The FBI investigation is a bigger deal...

...than anyone inside the Beltway Bubble wants to acknowledge. Sanders is not going after her on it but the Republicans will score a lot of points on it with people in the big middle who might be on the fence. She is perhaps the only POTUS candidate in history to run for office with an open FBI investigation cloud.

Washington Post reported today that the Clinton Foundation is now part of the investigation as well. Who knows how it will turn out. Maybe she is right that nothing will come of it. Maybe it's a nuclear bomb as well.

[JudyM]

9. Voters on the fence who were around when the Clintons were in the WH are not going to want to slug

through that same unending mucky scandal after scandal news every single day.

[TTUBatfan2008]

12. It is tiring for sure...

...she will face just as much opposition as Obama ever did, if not even more due to the fact the GOP has such a long history of hating the Clinton family. If the Republicans come to their senses and nominate Kasich, he will likely win the "on the fence" vote for people concerned about the FBI thing.

[JudyM]

23. Or any of them. They will all play that tape over and over: do you want to hear about investigations

constantly or do you want a president who can focus on the nations' business... Yada yada.

[JDPriestly]

35. She is so petty. This whole attack on Bernie for disagreeing with Obama was childish.

I may be crazy to say this but I just spent a few days with a couple of pre-school siblings and her comments made me think of sibling rivalry.

It's as if she said those things to Bernie about how he supposedly criticized Obama and wasn't loyal to Obama because she is jealous that Obama had a meeting with Bernie and because Bernie now has Secret Service protection.

I thought that the statements about Bernie's supposed criticisms of Obama were childish, petty and just silly. What does that have to do with who should be the nominee of the Democratic Party.

Obama probably criticizes himself sometimes. Who doesn't criticize themselves? And who agrees 100% all the time with anyone else? Even husbands and wives, even best friends can't boast of 100% agreement at all times.

Bernie has been as strong a supporter of Obama as has Hillary.

Those comments by Hillary were petty and immature.

[Deny and Shred]

45. I agree, and foolish.

She has a laundry list of nastiness she threw at Obama from 2008. For a zinger on debate night she opened herself up to far greater criticism and hypocrisy with regard to 'attacking Obama.'

Sanders could have nailed her with it. He left it at you ran against him. He could have added 'I encourage all of you to YouTube some of the things she had to say about Barak Obama during the 2008 campaign,' but he didn't even do that.

Sanders believes in vigorous debate of the issues, even if it is 2012. Obama asked for his feet to be held to the fire. I don't get Bernie's percieved problem there.

[Art_from_Ark]

11. Well, Rick Perry was under indictment when he was running for President

But I don't think it was FBI-related.

[TTUBatfan2008]

14. And no one took him seriously, lol...

Yet the Establishment of the Democratic Party decided long ago that Hillary was going to be the nominee no matter what. It's a good thing Bernie is providing a strong debate on issues that matter to liberals and then the party better hope like hell that the investigation comes back completely clean.

[Art_from_Ark]

18. The FBI investigation is like the sword of Damocles

The two Trump supporters in my family think it's ready to fall.
No body else wants to think about it.

[dreamnightwind]

10. Bernie has always been a supporter of Democrats

even as he works to improve on their half-assed support of the non-wealthy. I've watched him for years, he's extremely skillful at working to do better for us, without destroying the party members he caucuses with. It is to his great credit. It might be a campaign liability, but I'm not so sure. Her likability and trustworthy numbers are quite low, his are quite high, so people aren't entirely clueless.

I agree, though, I often get frustrated at shots he refuses to take at her record, which, from a left-wing perspective, would be quite easy to slice and dice her into oblivion.

Let's hope Bernie's high-minded approach wins out.

To his even greater credit, he doesn't destroy Democrats but he pulls no punches when discussing the systemic corruption of the financial industry, the fossil fuel industry, the police state, and campaign financing.

[JDPriestly]

39. I think that his "high-minded approach" is part of his political philosophy.

He wants to build, not tear down.

His comments on her self-proclaimed friendship and agreement with Kissinger were based on her claims. They weren't ugly gossip. But they cut to the quick in my opinion.

Kissinger is associated with terrible foreign policy blunders and a very rigid view of foreign policy and national rivalries.

I certainly am not a pro-Russian or pro-Soviet person, but there are some issues on which we can cooperate with Russia to our mutual benefit -- like terrorism, especially Muslim terrorism, and others on which we must disagree -- like the independence and sovereignty of countries bordering on Russia. Obama and Bernie agree on this point, as does, I believe, John Kerry.

I think Bernie's "high-minded approach" is excellent. He is positive and that draws voters to him, makes us all trust him. He is not prone to childish, overly emotional reactions. He has real wisdom. Not that he is perfect, but I have a sense that when he makes mistakes, he admits it. I think he is very willing to learn new things.

I think Hillary doesn't think things through as objectively and then changes her minds and creates a very confusing history of views, stances, positions for herself. Compared to Bernie, she is rigid and a bit overly proud. That's why she has to backtrack and revise her positions so much.

Bernie's philosophy and political strategy is the best in this respect.

[SoLeftIAmRight]

13. she is doing a fine job herself - Standing with Kissinger will cut another chunk...

votes - She just keeps sliding down

[cui bono]

20. I'm wondering if Kissinger is trending on google now...

A lot of people may not know enough about him.

.

[nxylas]

34. I saw some mentions of Monty Python's Henry Kissinger song on Twitter this morning

Not sure if that is any indication of anything.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

40. Millennials are an informed bunch, and what they're curious about; they find out fast.

From the Washington Post

[IMG][/IMG]

[cui bono]

42. Awesome! Thanks for that graph!

That is going to hurt. Bad. And as usual, it's all her own damn fault.

.

[ecstatic]

15. Crispie ripped Rubio a new one. Where did that get him? 6th place

and out of the race. While it's possible that Bernie is going out of his way to avoid harming the nominee, the truth is, if he got unnecessarily nasty with Hillary, the voters would kick him out this race so quick "it would make your head spin" (to steal Trump's line).

[RobertEarl]

16. Trump would

Bernie is too much a gentleman.

But Trump must be licking his chops and is probably donating to her campaign so he can take a shot at her. We can't allow that to happen. He'd win a million votes by smacking her down.

[bbgrunt]

17. He has the instincts of a leader and a statesman. Her, not so much.

[AtomicKitten]

21. good answer

[McCamy Taylor]

19. Because the only time he smiles is when he looks at her. He loves the woman.

There is no way he will ever do or say anything truly mean about her.

I find his affection for her refreshing. There is no reason a political candidate has to savage another. We are all still Democrats.

[JDPriestly]

41. He feels sorry for her. She is her own worst enemy.

If she would just be herself and not try so hard to outdo Bernie, she would do better.

But I don't think she can do that.

[Uncle Joe]

22. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, basselope.

[rbrnmw]

24. because unlike some of his supporters he doesn't hate her

I sometimes wonder if some of his supporters hate her more than support him. Twitter and Facebook supporters of his say really ugly mean things about her and anybody who supports her.

[mhatrw]

25. I don't hate her.

She is just the natural evolutionary product of a completely corrupt system, while he has somehow managed to keep his integrity all these years, always fighting the good fight against ever staggering odds.

Thus, I must support him over her.

But I do not hate her one bit. I hate the corrupt system, and I love that Sanders is exposing it.

[rbrnmw]

27. That's a good thing and a worthy cause

[earthshine]

30. I love Bernie. I dislike Hillary.

And these two principles have little to do with each other.

[joshcryer]

43. I support them both.

I prefer Sanders, and am against the needless smearing. I support Sanders' appeals to his base, however, even if I think the arguments are a bit silly (Hillary Clinton was an anti-war protester in her hippy days; I mean for crying out loud she led Yale strikes against the Vietnam War, at TW&B she drafted documents to protect conscientious objectors; the Kissinger thing rings hollow to a junkie like me, but I see how it appeals to the base very well, so I don't have a problem with the rhetoric).

[Eric J in MN]

28. George Stephanopoulos asked her about the Bankruptcy Bill.

She said that she wanted to improve the bill to protect women, and that to get the bill changed she has to promise to vote for it.

[LonePirate]

29. I'm guessing Bernie doesn't hate her as much as some DUers do.

[JDPriestly]

44. I don't hate her. I just think she is not very likable and not a good candidate.

She may be likable on a one-on-one, personal basis, but she acts very arrogant and just comes across as not someone you would want to work with, say in an office or a school.

Arrogant is the word.

The voters in New Hampshire have spoken. And I bet that Bernie won the popular vote in Iowa too. We will never know. Because apparently they don't keep tallies of the votes.

That is, Bernie could have won a very large number of the votes in college towns yet the tally of the delegates would represent a value assigned to those towns and not the actual number of individual votes cast in those towns. Therefore, Bernie could have won more individual votes but not more delegates and we would never know it.

[Thespian2]

31. K & R!!!

A problem for the dastardly Clinton machine is that finding a flaw in Bernie's policies or in his life is extremely difficult...very little for them to use in their attack dog mode...even Big Dog couldn't do anything but spout inanities...

Eh, Clintons? Hard to attack Bernie...but they will keep trying...

[youceyec]

32. GOP Attacks dogs couldn't

during 11 hours of interrogations. What makes you think Sanders is not afraid of her, just a little bit???

I would be. She is an Alpha in a pantsuit.

[Live and Learn]

37. Integrity!! Feel the Bern!!!! nt

[joshcryer]

38. Because Sanders isn't a POS used car salesman.

Like so many who accuse our party leaders are.

Sanders says it like it is, but he won't pull bullshit arguments. He'll put out arguments that appeal to his base, but he won't go there and be a bullwhip for the Republican hate machine. The Republicans won't use Wall Street ties in political ads, because that looks stupid, the Republicans won't use Kissinger in adds, because that looks stupid to them.

Sanders will only and can only appeal to his base, because he's got integrity.

But Clinton, after she lost the nomination, busted her ass for Obama, so let's get that fucking straight. If Sanders loses he'll bust his ass for Clinton. And Clinton will probably bust her ass for him (though honestly she might snap and go all Bloomberg).

[in_cog_ni_to]

47. Because she's female...he has to tread very carefully or he'll be painted as a misogynist who

attacked a poor innocent little woman. He has to bite his tongue. I admire his ability to control himself! She DESERVES to be lambasted!

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

[Bluenorthwest]

48. Because Bernie knows what Hillary does not, that negative campaigning is of limited value and if

used it must be used with precision and most excellent timing to actually be helpful. He won NH, Iowa barely hers, SC leans in her direction and can't be won via negativity or by attacking her, it can only be won by persuading voters in the positive. So this is not the time and the best way to win is without ever having to resort to negative tropes. It can be done and it is better.