PBS NewsHour Democratic Debate -- LIVE THREAD #3

[brooklynite]

[book_worm]

1. Thanks for a new thread for a stand out debate

by two fine candidates who put the GOP to shame.

[SheenaR]

4. I agree with this! N/t

[bettyellen]

9. ^^^ I FULLY SUPPORT THIS MESSAGE ^^^ TKS BKLNITE!

[SheenaR]

2. Sanders on fire and it's obvious n/t

[nc4bo]

5. He's caught a crappy cold. Ugh. I feel for him. nt

[Beacool]

12. Oh, it's him?

I was wondering who was coughing.

[nc4bo]

22. Yep. Caught some cooties from somewhere.nt

[elleng]

24. Bound to happen.

I assume he'll take good care of it.

[nolabear]

6. I don't support him and think she's doing better but he has improved a lot.

[brooklynite]

3. Discussion moves to Syrian ceasefire plan

...and dealing with Putin

[brooklynite]

7. Sanders: Obama and I disagree with Clinton on "no fly zone"

[nolabear]

8. She's not cutting Russia any slack.

[bettyellen]

27. I disliked that Sanders said Russia's issues are ultimately all about $$$. It's just repetitive.

[PyaarRevolution]

10. Not happy about Hillary backing Israel in that way.

This negativity towards Iran because they're Muslim and don't love Israel so let's not put them on the border, give me a break. Iran has been one of the big nations trying to STOP Isil in their tracks.

[TCJ70]

17. Yeah...Sander's is being all about diplomacy and encouraging them to engage in the region...

...that's not a bad thing. We can't enforce everything in that region.

[hollowdweller]

18. Yeah her saber rattling isn't that flattering.

[Joe the Revelator]

29. Eh, this is one point i strongly agree with her on

Iran freely states they want to rid the world of Israel.

[restorefreedom]

11. lol!

Malcolm Fleschner
Malcolm Fleschner – ?@CultureShlock

Is @BernieSanders coughing or muttering "bullshit" under his breath?
#tytlive #DemDebate

[nolabear]

13. That's one nasty cough, Bernie.

I swear, I couldn't do it.

[nc4bo]

16. Bed and hot and sour soup would be calling my name.nt

[bklyncowgirl]

19. Poor guys voice must be shot.

[SheenaR]

20. He had it on victory night too

I don't know how any of them do this schedule

[Manifestor_of_Light]

31. you know what they call chicken soup?

Jewish penicillin. .

[brooklynite]

14. "I have no illusions: Iran is sponsoring terrorism"

[PyaarRevolution]

15. "Iran is the main state sponsor of Terrorism"?

I'm confused. I thought that was Saudi Arabia. Oh wait, no one in politics can criticize them because of how much we're in bed with them.

[hollowdweller]

23. When was the last time we had a Shiite terrorist attack in the US?

[PyaarRevolution]

26. Al Quaeda right?

Oh wait, they're Sunni, funded by the Saudi's, who own a large share of Fox News.

[RoccoR5955]

35. They both are...

So is the US and Israel.

[TCJ70]

21. I don't understand the "meeting with conditions" thing...

...doesn't that mostly close the door on anything in advance? I like Sander's more open approach.

[brooklynite]

25. Question about refugee crisis: What should the US be doing?

Clinton: Pleased that NATO will start patrolling Mediterranean to stop smugglers.

Our support of NATO and EU, as well as willingness to take vetted refugees.

[BeyondGeography]

28. Cuttah

[brooklynite]

30. Facebook question: What two leaders would influence your foreign policy decisions?

[brooklynite]

32. Sanders makes huge mistake citing FDR...

...goes for his economic policies, NOT foreign policy (including interning Japanese Americans)

[brooklynite]

34. Winston Churchill a much safer choice

[jeff47]

55. Not if you know anything about Churchill outside WWII. (nt)

[brooklynite]

59. The QUESTION was about foreign policy

[jeff47]

69. And guess what? Churchill had foreign policy outside WWII.

He was very "Kissinger".

[Melissa G]

127. Not true. About leaders one American one international n/t

[brooklynite]

139. ...who would inform their foreign policy.

The world has seen many great leaders in the course of human history. Can you name two leaders -- one American and one foreign -- who would influence your foreign policy decisions?

[bklyncowgirl]

37. Sorry, I didn't get that at all.

[bettyellen]

40. interesting that has been a frequent DU citation too. and yep, racism.

[slipslidingaway]

44. Clinton agreed with him! nt

[Purveyor]

33. Sanders is hitting it out of the park tonight indeed.

[nolabear]

45. I don't agree. He's doing fine but I wouldn't call it hitting it.

He has gotten better at branching out a bit though he always comes back to his particular center.

[brooklynite]

36. Clinton: I would choose Nelson Mandela

[brooklynite]

38. Clinton going after Sanders for criticism of President Obama

[brooklynite]

41. HUGE positive response from crowd

[TCJ70]

43. That's a cheap shot...

...it also doesn't answer the question.

[book_worm]

51. She did answer the question--agreed about FDR & mentioned Nelson Mandella

But she also went out of her way to support President Obama.

[TCJ70]

56. She's completely distorting his record...

...and they aren't giving him a chance to reply.

[hibbing]

46. Interesting tactic

Watching his response now.

Peace

[bettyellen]

49. She had rousing applause for it too. OUCH. You'd think it's "the League", LOL.

[uponit7771]

65. +1

[restorefreedom]

39. google trends

very interesting

http://www.google.com/trends/explore#q=bernie%20sanders%2C%20hillary%20clinton&cmpt=q&tz=Etc%2FGMT%2B5

[TTUBatfan2008]

42. Please Hillary...

Don't insult our intelligence. You were as critical of Obama as anyone on the left has ever been.

[Joe the Revelator]

47. You want to define Pandering? THAT my friends, is pandering.

[TCJ70]

50. For real...

...that was absolutely awful.

[Arazi]

48. In the "I agree" category, HRC co-opts that much more

[brooklynite]

52. Clinton slams back: Sanders called for Primary opponent for President Obama

[uponit7771]

58. +1

[PyaarRevolution]

83. Call Thom tomorrow.

Ask him about it. He made that comment on Thom's show and he can tell you WHY he said that about the time.

[uponit7771]

53. Booooooo come on Sanders...you said more than that!!!!

[TCJ70]

63. This is the blurb:

Bill Press makes the case why, long after taking the oath of office, the next president of the United States must keep rallying the people who elected him or her on behalf of progressive causes. That is the only way real change will happen. Read this book.

Do you disagree?

[uponit7771]

95. I'm talking about Sanders over all meme against Obama for the last 3 years... not just the book

[bettyellen]

54. The suggestion to Primary is true.... Stop interrupting her, Bernie!!

[TTUBatfan2008]

57. "Personal charges" Hillary?

You mean like the race card you and Bill played against Obama in 2008?

[RoccoR5955]

60. Just got in to watch this on TV

Is it my imagination or does Hillary have on waaaaay too much makeup?

[bettyellen]

70. This is the harshest lighting I have seen either of them in. Watching in HD and no one is pretty.

[RoccoR5955]

77. and that yellow outfit she has on makes her

look like a robot.

[bettyellen]

86. No- an Astronaut!!!! And it is very timely- Martian will win Best Picture! Bernie looked

a little beat and was coughing a bit. He looked paler than he did on The View. Which had better lighting!

[nolabear]

61. That's a little both ends against the middle on Bernie's part re Obama.

[book_worm]

62. I think HRC's statements about Bernie's criticism of the president

has thrown Bernie off a bit.

[Duckhunter935]

80. it was rehearsed and full of half truths

Low even for her

[bettyellen]

64. Bernie is breaking it down. And Hillary will need his coalition to push us left and so will he.

Either way, it is a path that has to be stuck to.

[RoccoR5955]

74. Clinton is not going to push us left

You do know that candidates can, and often do say ANYTHING to get elected.

[bettyellen]

102. I have just witnessed same, yes. Whoever makes it to the WH, even if -

god forbid, it turns out to be Trump, :barf: the revolution he is speaking of has to start anyway.

[RoccoR5955]

105. Except with tRump it's not called revolution.

It's called de-evolution. We are all going to turn into his chumpy chimps.

[bettyellen]

108. I am saying our fight to regain congress, even if we have to ALSO regain the White House. No

matter who gets in there, if a person believes we need change the map to it is the same.

[brooklynite]

66. Clinton: I am not a single issue candidate

[nolabear]

67. The Obama kerfuffle is a bit of a waste on both parts.

[bettyellen]

75. I think they both feel like they need his cred. And that is great!

[shawn703]

68. Only one candidate has run against Barack Obama

This

[nolabear]

72. Or been his SOS.

[uponit7771]

85. ...and Obama chose her to be in his admin, not Sanders for good reason

[shawn703]

130. Keep your friends close, keep your enemies closer. nt

[uponit7771]

71. GET IT GIRL!!!! Outside of hating Wall Street and wanting more for the middle class Sanders

...doesn't sound like he has anything else

[EndElectoral]

82. I'm sorry that's all you got out of what he said tonight. Suggest you check his website to fill you

in more.

[uponit7771]

91. I have, Sanders doesn't give specifics on a lot of issues... he literally lost me on SP because

... he was not only wrong on some of the savings but then tried to fill them in later as if people wouldn't freakin notice!!!

Then, he REFUSES to describe how in the world in his SP plan he's going to make doctors, hospitals and pharma take half of what they make in salary today.

I have, and on a number of issues Sanders isn't being very descript and "trust me" is what Obama did on TPP... Sanders shouldn't be asking the same with a good portion of his agenda

[hibbing]

73. For everyone

First time I have sat on here and posted and followed the debate threads. Relatively respectful postings by the vast majority of supporters on both sides.

Compare it to the racist, warmongering, kill the poor, fascists from the other party.

Peace

[nolabear]

79. Peace back. When we're in the same "room" we listen together well.

Those other guys? Scary. Mighty scary.

[brooklynite]

76. And...that's a wrap.

Best debate in either party this cycle.

[bettyellen]

106. Brooklynite- thanks again for the great threads!

[ProudToBeLiberal]

78. What a strong close from Hillary Clinton. Wow, that blew me away. Holy shit I am shaking. nt

[bklyncowgirl]

87. She was very strong at the end. Passionate and I'm a Sanders supporter.

[hollowdweller]

89. I thought her closer was great. Glad she did a shout out to unions. Bernie doesn't mention them

Enough I don't think.

[book_worm]

81. Great debate

I believe that HRC had one of her best debates of the cycle. Bernie did well, but didn't think he was the winner.

[riversedge]

84. Whow. Hillary hit it out of the ballpark with her closing. while poor Bernie was shaking

his finger.

[Iggy Knorr]

88. And PBS ends the live stream on... a commercial ! GO PUBLIC BROADCASTING SERVICE

[mvd]

90. Bernie wins again in my opinion

He just has the issues on his side, period. Clinton is a strong debater, but Bernie has gotten better also.

[senz]

92. Dirty attempt to pit Bernie against Obama & even Ted Kennedy.

Ugly personal tactics that I hope come back to bite her.

[brooklynite]

94. So Sanders DIDN'T call for a Primary challenge against the President?

[senz]

96. NO, he did NOT "call" for a primary challenge.

[uponit7771]

99. Nah, he said it would be a good idea

[senz]

104. In a conversation with a caller on the TH show re Obama cutting Social Security,

Bernie mused aloud if a primary challenge could push Obama back to the left. The next time Bernie was on that show, he said he regretted suggesting it.

That is NOT "a call for a primary challenge." No one who understands the English language would say so.

If this is all y'all have got, ya got nothing, "bro."

[uponit7771]

109. This is false on its face, Sanders proffered Obama be primaried more than once and it doesn't matter

... who it was with it wasn't helpful.

Then Sanders chooses Bigga and West as surrogates who've said the most vile racialized things about Americas first black president...

Screw that, I wouldn't let the guy hug Obama... he doesn't need those kind of hugs

Sanders is the guy screaming at the cabby for not running through stop and go traffic faster...

[senz]

121. It is absolutely true. I read the account & heard TH himself describe it.

Now don't be lying about Bernie Sanders.

He did not mention it ever again.

[uponit7771]

132. Ummmm, no.. false... Link inside

http://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-talks-primary-challenge-obama-good-idea-our-democracy-and-democratic-part/

 But Sanders, who has been sharply critical of Obama’s compromises with the Republican right on economic and fiscal policy, continues to talk up the idea of a primary challenge as a vehicle to pressure the president from the left. He is not alone. Ralph Nader is actively encouraging a primary race. And one-third of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents tell pollsters that they favor a primary challenge to the president, while just 59 percent oppose such a run.

Meaning it was ongoing...

No one is set out to lie about Sanders but Sanders is going to own his consummate dissing of Obama for not driving the cab through stop and go traffic fast enough

[senz]

136. Okay, I didn't know that. But it doesn't change anything. Here's why:

1) Pressuring the president from the left is not a serious attempt to replace him. The article makes clear that Bernie wasn't interested doing it himself. He just wanted Obama to listen to the needs of the people rather than the needs of the 1%. We know how he feels about that.

2) Criticism is not "dissing." These are adults who understand the ways of D.C. They can disagree without being disagreeable. Obama and Bernie get along fine. Like I said, they have campaigned for one another. They had a meeting a week or so ago, remember?

However, I saw signs throughout 2011 that Hill was looking for an opportunity to primary Obama. And I can assure you, she would not have done so out of "disagreement," since she has no strongly held values and convictions to form the basis of disagreement. She would primary for one reason only: ambition. Getting what's "hers." Tossing Obama out on his ear and moving back into the White House. Furthermore, I think Obama knew it. Do I have proof? No, but I saw a lot of indicators and still think it's true.

Now I don't about you, but right now I'm so sleepy I can hardly see straight.

[uponit7771]

137. No... no senz, Sanders consummately bashed Obama... He was always dissing him.

.. when he could and then chose a couple of people who slung vile racialized words at the first black president to be surrogates... one of them because he felt slighted on seating arrangements!!!!

This isn't a one time or two time or 12 time thing with Sanders it was 3 year of that crap

... and yes, screaming at the cap driver for not driving through rush hour traffic fast enough is dissing.

Because Sanders isn't coming up with any better ideas to get crap past congress or even a better SP plan... hell, his first version left the cost saving out of it and then it came back with "collective bargaining" as a way to get the doctors, hospiitals and pharma to accept half their damn payements they accept today.


No, it's dissing because he's not come up with something better by now...


Just being angry isn't enough

[brooklynite]

113. OR...he could have said "no"...

..."however, President Obama hasn't done enough, and we should hold him to his original promises".

He didn't say that.

[uponit7771]

98. +1, then after that called him weak and then has people who say the most vile racialized crap about

... Obama as surrogates.

Sanders trying to hug Obama now is disindigenous at best

[senz]

112. Sanders and Obama like and respect each other. They campaigned for each other.

If they could read what you're writing I think they'd laugh at you.

If I were a big tough politician, I'd laugh too. But right now you've inviting one of those "puke" smilies.

[uponit7771]

120. I don't believe that for a split second, Sanders even last month said in a question in regards

... to continuing Obama's legacy he said NO!! We need a "course correction"...

Sanders has based a good portion of his campaign off of bashing the establishment which Obama is a part of and has multiple times proffered Obama be primaried.

I think Obama might like Sanders but not vise versa...

Not after Sanders accepted Bigga and West

[senz]

124. Think. Sanders champions the people and wants to pursue those ends.

So on some issues, he will disagree with Obama. But they are on VERY good terms. I've listened to Bernie for 10 years on the TH program every Friday, and he never ever said anything negative about Obama.

When Bernie talks about the "establishment," he is talking about the oligarchs (the 1%) and their henchmen. Obama is not in that crowd and hopefully never will be.

Surely you are aware that black activists were disappointed in Obama. I could see that, and I felt for them, but I could also see what Obama was up against and knew full well he could not afford to adopt an AA profile. Too many rightwingers hated him as is, many of them racists. They would have crucified him if he'd pursued a black agenda. He wanted to be president of all the people. I'm closer in age to Obama's mother and it broke my heart to see him try to appease these people; I could have told him they would never cooperate, but he was idealistic and he really thought he could, by being reasonable, bring people together. And now the screen's getting blurry and I'm getting snuffly. So: end of comment.

[uponit7771]

133. Not the point of conversation, Sanders was consummate in his disses of Obama and ...

... even had surroagates who said some of the most vile racialized crap about him and now wants to say he supported him.

NO!

[senz]

140. I think you've been given false information.

I've listened to Bernie on the Thom Hartmann show for a decade and never, ever heard him diss Obama. He was alarmed when Obama was pulled so sharply to the right by tptb, but he was never hateful or in any way personally insulting toward Obama. Bernie has always been respectful toward him. His primary concern is the well-being of the poor and middle class and for awhile he thought Obama's rightwing influences were hurting people.

I've seen far more animosity and resentment toward President Obama from Hillary Clinton.

I hope you will keep your eyes open.

[uponit7771]

97. Sanders surroagates are people who say the most vile racialized things about Obama and now

...we're supposed to believe he supports him after bashing Obama for the last 3 years?

nope...

[senz]

100. Get serious. I worked my tush off to reelect Obama.

Take the falsehoods somewhere else. They won't work with me.

[uponit7771]

101. Bigga Calls Obama a house slave and west said Obama Nword-izzed the white house those are q....

... quotable and those two are people who Sanders choose as surrogates in IA...

[senz]

107. Black activists thought Obama didn't support the cause strongly enough.

Who are you to take this stuff out of context?

Let AAs work out their own approaches.

[bettyellen]

111. the context for West was a personal issue, sadly. Inaugural tickets. he was happy with him up till

the moment they fucked that up.

[uponit7771]

116. Yeap, Sanders is kinda like West IMHO... petulant ... the type to scream at the cab driver for not

... driving through stop and go traffic faster.

[bettyellen]

118. he has the NYC impatience that I love, but dunno how it plays with others. I do quite well with it!

I think he should not have waved his arms so frequently.

[uponit7771]

114. Hopefully there are some people who disagree with Obama on some things but...

None of that meant those other activist said vile racialized things about Obama like Sanders surrogates have.

I am an AA, I have heard Sanders approach and still don't like it... he's light on specifics and is acting as if he hasn't been bashing Obama for the last 3 years

[senz]

117. If I were an AA, I'd drop Hill like a stone and go with Bernie.

She has NO history of supporting AAs. Just the opposite.

[uponit7771]

122. Most AAs are not because of Sanders overt stance against Obama

[senz]

128. That's it? That's all there is? Well then there's nothing.

Ohhh...now I know why Hill was trying to pit Bernie against Obama and making what seemed to me either stupid or false accusations -- she was appealing to the AA vote in SC, wanting them to hate Bernie. Oh God. So that's what she's doing. Shit, I think I'm going to start crying again. I can't believe it.

[shawn703]

131. She thinks AAs are easily manipulated

She's in for a rude awakening.

[uponit7771]

134. Nope, you've read a good portion of why here on DU... or should have by now

[farmboy]

93. Hilary Berned It Up Tonight! What a Great Performance by our next President!

She's not there, yet, we know, Bernie. But she's closer after tonight!

[RoccoR5955]

103. I don't think so

with all that makeup and that robot suit she looked like a Stepford wife to me.
She continues her parroting everything that Bernie has worked for for more than 40 years.

[brooklynite]

110. Personal insults...always a great campaign strategy.

[senz]

115. 1) The commenter is not campaigning. 2) Hill got personally insultng with Bernie.

[tkmorris]

123. I notice that you only object to SOME personal insults

Kind of hypocritical don't you think?

[RoccoR5955]

129. Not an attack

But personal appearance matters, especially when dealing with foreign leaders.
Someone with that much makeup on makes me think that she has something to hide.
Yellow is not a good look for someone with her color hair. It is a poor choice, and it makes me wonder what other rudimentary poor choices she might make.

[uponit7771]

135. wow.... no we're back to personal appearances ... sigh

[RoccoR5955]

138. Personal appearances matter when dealing with foreign heads of state. n/t

[farmboy]

141. Music to my Hillary-supporting ears. These kinds of insults will backfire bigtime on Bernie.

[senz]

119. A candidate who pits her rival against friendly office holders is NOT presidential.

It was a low and dirty tactic. May it shrink her down, down, down.

[NRaleighLiberal]

125. respecting Kissinger and thinking superpac money doesn't come with expectations

are two big moments that will hurt Hillary.

Bernie's relative weakness in Foreign Policy questions showed a bit.

Otherwise, fine, spirited debate between two quality candidates.

[MrWendel]

126. Wow...

they were both better, but she really ragdolled him tonight.

[RoccoR5955]

142. wow.... no we're back to personal insults ... sigh

I know I am guilty,but it seems that when the Clinton supporters do it it's okay.

[MrWendel]

143. ?

Do you know what "Ragdolled" means?