PA office,workers all lifelong Democrats. Voting for Bernie in primary, Trump in GE if it's Clinton.

[Skwmom]

Last edited Thu Feb 11, 2016, 10:06 AM - Edit history (3)

Was I surprised to hear this? No. The working class is fed up.

People understand that the Clintons are NOT for the working class. They will NOT vote for her.

They will vote for the Republican before they vote for Clinton.

Note: Before you decide to attack this group of individuals, I was also told that they were really disturbed by the execution of 17 year old Laquan McDonald in Chicago (everyone was talking about it). Bernie was the ONLY one who called for anyone involved in the cover-up to be held accountable. How shocking this must be because it doesn't fit your narrative of someone who would vote for Trump over Clinton.

[riversedge]

1. So, these Democrats will be the new and improved PUMA's Got it.

[one_voice]

2. Because Trump is part of..

or gets the working class?

He was given a cool mil from daddy.

[itsrobert]

3. Baloney

Nice try

[Skwmom]

5. It is NOT baloney. It is true.

[itsrobert]

7. Sure sure.

Wink wink

[CorporatistNation]

45. Hate 2 Disappoint, But THIS IS An Increasingly Common Theme Among Dems and Indys!

They just cannot stomach the baggage of poor judgement, and questionable character/integrity that is part and parcel to what undeniably is the Clinton composite.

[itsrobert]

52. So Trump has no baggage and great judgment?

And his character/integrity is not in doubt?


I see. I have to call into the judgment of any person that would jump from Sanders to Trump. And their integrity.


I call baloney.

[malokvale77]

109. Is it possible...

they are just sick of the status quo?

Could it be that voters on both sides of the aisle have had enough?

[Art_from_Ark]

112. That's pretty much how it is in my family

Everyone's supporting either Bernie or Trump at this time (mostly Bernie). Both of the Trump supporters will vote for the Republican, whoever it is, while a couple of the Bernie supporters will reluctantly vote for Hillary if she's the nominee, while the rest haven't talked about their second choices.

[malokvale77]

115. It's like the twain meeting.

My SO got his voters card in the mail today. He has never voted in his lifetime. He asked me to help him register so he can vote for Bernie Sanders. I call that a victory.

Their is only one person in my circle that will reluctantly vote for Hillary. The rest are dedicated to Bernie.

[BainsBane]

4. I'm not surprised either

both have something Clinton doesn't--and never will.

[Nonhlanhla]

11. Ha!

True that.

[kath]

13. Oh, great, it's the "sexism" card!

That shit's not working any more, it is a turn-off.
Sanders beat her among women by 11% in NH.

[Nonhlanhla]

23. Sexism is not a card

It is systemic, ancient, harmful prejudice against women, especially women who seek power.

Not a card.

[Ford F-150]

80. See...and thats just it...

"Seek Power"

That is what she has been doing since Bill left office.

I do not buy for 1 second her motives are for anything other than a power grab!

[Nonhlanhla]

86. So, you have a problem with women

seeking positions of power (which the presidency certainly is).

She should stay home and knit like a proper little woman, eh?

Got it.

[Ford F-150]

90. lol...nice try

She seeks power for the sake of power...not out of some sense of civic responsibility.

[Nonhlanhla]

92. Hogwash

Your assertion is based on a big fat nothing. It does not match Hilary's record, nor the testimony of many people who have worked with her. Your assertion DOES match the decades-old right wing image of Hillary created by people who are seriously troubled by the idea of a non-traditional woman.

[malokvale77]

110. Seek power?

I was born with it. I don't have to seek it.

Yes it is a card. A wildcard she pulls out every time she is in trouble.

[Nonhlanhla]

111. Oh well, good for you

Glad YOU were born with power. Most of us are not born with a silver spoon of any kind.

My reference is OBVIOUSLY to seeking positions of power - such as the presidency.

[malokvale77]

113. Silver spoon?

I was born dirt poor and have retired dirt poor.

My reference is OBVIOUSLY beyond your thinking.

[Nonhlanhla]

114. Yes, I'm an idiot

Too dumb to understand your little reference.

The only one who did not understand was you, who chose to deliberately misunderstand my point about misogyny directed at women seeking positions of power.

[malokvale77]

116. OK. nt

[TCJ70]

6. Having observed this phenomenon partially...

...the person in question said "anyone but Clinton" if Bernie didn't win, I can confirm this is a real thing that's happening.

[FreakinDJ]

104. Seeing it too

[Empowerer]

8. If I were a Sanders supporter, I wouldn't even tell anyone that story

While it may seem to send a negative message about Clinton, it really speaks very ill of Sanders.

I don't think I'd want anyone to know that I was politically aligned with the kind of people who would even think of voting for Trump ...

[Skwmom]

9. They have been FALSELY smearing Sanders supporters for months. It does not speak ill of Bernie. It

says a whole lot about Clinton though.

[Kittycat]

30. +1 I can't condone voting trump

Though I've found it easier to weed out friends these days. However, I can't condone voting for Clinton, either. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and hard place as a democrat. Bernie all the way, if he doesn't make it, I'm just not sure a clip over my nose will be enough when it's time to cast my vote.

[amborin]

70. Clinton & Trump are on the same page re: "illegal immigrants" and the border wall

she voted for it many times; and she speaks about how "illegal immigrants" are on corners waiting
for work;

She hinted Obama was Muslim in 2008, in a way consistent with the republicans, so she must think Muslim = bad

[Fla Dem]

102. Clinton's position on immigration. Not sure where you're getting your information.

America needs comprehensive immigration reform with a pathway to citizenship.

Hillary will:
Enact comprehensive immigration reform to create a pathway to citizenship, keep families together, and enable millions of workers to come out of the shadows.

End family detention and close private immigrant detention centers.

Defend President Obama’s executive actions to provide deportation relief for DREAMers and parents of Americans and lawful residents, and extend those actions to additional persons with sympathetic cases if Congress refuses to act.

“We have to finally and once and for all fix our immigration system – this is a family issue, it’s an economic issue too, but it is at heart a family issue. If we claim we are for family then we have to pull together and resolve the outstanding issues around our broken immigration system. The American people support comprehensive immigration reform not just because it’s the right thing to do—and it is—but because it will strengthen families, strengthen our economy, and strengthen our country. That’s why we can’t wait any longer, we can’t wait any longer for a path to full and equal citizenship.”
HILLARY CLINTON, MAY 5, 2015

https://www.hillaryclinton.com/issues/immigration-reform/

Supporting the DREAM Act. Hillary Clinton has called passage of DREAM Act “long overdue.” This legislation, which would allow immigrant children who “have demonstrated good moral character, and are pursuing a college education or have enlisted in the military, the… opportunity to earn legal status in this country,” was cosponsored by Clinton in 2003, 2005, and 2007.

Fighting for comprehensive immigration reform. Hillary Clinton has long been an advocate for comprehensive immigration reform. She was one of the two cosponsors of Senator Ted Kennedy’s 2004 bill, the S.O.L.V.E. Act, and during her time in the Senate she continued to cosponsor and vote for comprehensive immigration reform legislation. As a presidential candidate in 2008, Hillary called for “a path to legalization” to bring people “out of the shadows,” and she pledged that, if elected, she would introduce a plan for immigration reform “in the first 100 days” of her presidency. As Sec. Clinton recently told a tearful young undocumented immigrant, “I’m a huge supporter of immigration reform and a path to citizenship and will continue to advocate for that.”

http://correctrecord.org/hillary-clinton-and-immigration/

[lancer78]

81. Just think of those

who among us the ACA has been a lifesaver. And then think what happens with a president Trump and RBG kicking the bucket.

[Skwmom]

83. Trump has supported single payer.

I spoke to a couple of African America women when I was shopping a couple of months back. They laughed and said Trump is not a Republican, he is a Democrat. They also said they haven't forgotten what the Clintons pulled in 2008.

[lancer78]

98. Trump will sign

any legislation the republican house/senate passes.

[840high]

39. Yes.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

66. Trump is a sexist/racist creep and a clown. Not a thing to be proud about.

Don't know if it really speaks ill of Sanders but certainly doesn't make these people look too knowledgeable.

[eilen]

10. It depends on whether Bernie is sabotaged by the Democratic Party or not...

I think losing faith in the Party is what makes people swear oaths like that.

[seaglass]

12. Not very bright, are they? Hopefully these dummies aren't your co-workers. n/t

[brush]

56. Agreed! That is dumb as it gets.

Trump's policies are directly opposite of Sanders' positions.

What foolishness.

[Nonhlanhla]

14. Honestly?

Anyone who would vote for Trump in the GE if Hillary is the Demo nominee, could easily vote for Trump anyway if Bernie is the nominee, after the GOP had scared them for months and had shredded Bernie to pieces.

But I was told yesterday by a very insistent Bernie supporter that there are virtually no Bernie supporters who would consider Trump, and that I was wrong to suggest that part of Bernie's support comes from people who are really conservative. So I guess this is not something to worry about then.

[Skwmom]

17. These are lifelong Dems who LOVE Bernie. The GOP bs will not turn them against him.

But as much as they love Bernie they DO NOT LIKE Clinton. Hence, even if it's Trump in the GE they'll vote for him over Clinton.

[Nonhlanhla]

22. That's their choice.

They should perhaps ask themselves why they do not like Hillary, and why they dislike her so much that they are wiling to vote for someone whose rhetoric is akin to that of Adolf Hitler and whose policies will likely be an absolute disaster for the country and especially for minorities in this country,most of whom he has explicitly demonized. No real Dem can possibly be that callous with regards to others, sorry.

I have no desire to play nice with people like that.

[Skwmom]

24. I don't really think these lifelong Dems care what is said about them. n/t

[Nonhlanhla]

25. That's just fine

I also really don't care what they have to say.

[840high]

41. You are right. I don't.

[Glamrock]

36. That person was wrong

Bernie has crossover supporters. Period. Republicans who are terrified of what the party has become, Independants who left the Democratic party when it lurched to the right (economically), and moderate Republicans who were driven out of their own party. I know a few of each (not that it matters). So yeah, a Liberal political junkie like myself wouldn't vote for Trump over Clinton, but there are some Sanders supporters who would. IE: (ex)Republicans, Independants, and quite a few less than politically engaged Democrats. Fact is she isn't very well liked or trusted in the "I don't pay attention to politics until pres. elections" America.

I'm pretty sure that both candidates will do everything they can to get their supporters to vote against the GOP, however.

Just my 2 cents
Peace

[Nonhlanhla]

57. I think we largely agree

I just don't have patience with anyone who would vote for Trump. I consider him politically equivalent to Hitler. So if any Bernie supporter says they'd rather vote for Trump than Hillary, they can kiss my shiny behind. They are not worthy of Bernie or Hillary if they'd be willing to help throw the election to someone who has explicitly stated that he will to discriminate against specific groups of people.

I do know that there are some Bernie supporters who who will not vote for Hillary. I think the opposite is also true. There are some Hillary supporters who will probably not vote for Bernie, or some Republicans who might vote for Hillary over Trump, but who might not want to vote for Bernie. They both have their crossover appeal.

Our task will be to support whoever gets the nomination, and not to bloody our chosen candidate's opponent so much during primary season that we make it impossible for our fellow supporters of said chosen candidate to eventually support the nominee.

Peace out.

[Glamrock]

63. Yep, we do

Except for two points...

I strongly disagree with your assessment that Hillary has crossover appeal to Republicans. Although, I'll admit that's based on my own experiences and discussions. Mostly with blue collar folks at job sites and hotels in the midwest. Which, I'll be the first to admit, doesn't make me right.

Secondly, I've been working on changing the opinions of those that say Trump if Hillary is the other choice. If you can't or are unwilling, that's cool. But I think if they've already made the step to support the extremely liberal "socialist", there's some common ground. Trying to convince them to vote for a Democrat over a Republican is hard enough. If they are already supporting one Democrat...you see where i'm going. However, I do feel what you're saying.

Beyond that, yep I'd say we're in full agreement!
Peace

[Nonhlanhla]

64. Here's why I say she has some crossover appeal

Last edited Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:35 PM - Edit history (1)

There are some Republicans who are horrified at the idea of Trump. We're talking more moderate old-school Republicans. I think some of them might vote for Hillary instead of someone like Trump. Indeed, I've met one or two of that type who said as much. This kind of Republican is nervous about Bernie, though because of their fiscal conservatism. Although Hillary is not as close to the GOP perspective on money issues as she is frequently made out to be, she is nevertheless perceived as more moderate, and therefore as a more sane choice from their perspective.

In short, I think Bernie and Hillary might potentially have crossover appeal, just to different kinds of Republicans.

I don't think we should rely too much on crossover appeal. If the GOP nominates Kasich or Bush, those moderate Republicans would go for him. And, on the other hand, the type of person who says they'll vote for Trump if Bernie does not get the nod, is not necessarily someone I think we should rely on either. I fear such a person will be easily swayed away from Bernie by November, once the GOP unleashes its attack machine on Bernie and make him out to be the reincarnation of Karl Marx. We both know that's coming. It doesn't scare me. But it does mean that I would not want us to rely on untrustworthy and easily frightened voters like that who could flip so easily. Our hope IMHO is to build on uniting the candidates' supporters who vote on principle. If Bernie is the nominee, Hillary people will have to brought into the fold. I think Hillary will do that: she won me over in part because of her gracious behavior after her loss to Obama in helping him get elected. If she is the nominee, it will fall onto the shoulders of reasonable Bernie supporters to counter the negative narrative about Hillary (much of which is based on distortion), and to help bring progressives into the fight against the Republicans.

None of that will be easy, and either way we'll lose some folks. But what we cannot do, is to build an electoral strategy on unreliable voters, the type who claim to be Democrats even and yet would vote for Trump.

I think Trump is truly evil. The casual and open racism he exhibits shocks me daily. If you study Hitler's speeches, you will hear echos of it in Trump. I still think Cruz is even more dangerous on a personal level, but Trump is bad on a meta level.

Anyway, now I'm rambling. Gotta go to bed! Good night!

[Glamrock]

65. Sweet dreams then Nonhlanhla

[amborin]

71. what about the fact

that Hillary also wants a border wall? as senator, she voted for it many times; and spoke about how "illegal immigrants" are on corners waiting for work;

She hinted Obama was Muslim in 2008, in a way consistent with the republicans, so she must think Muslim = bad

how is she different?

[Nonhlanhla]

87. Disgusting comparison

If you can't tell the difference between Hillary's cautious approach to immigration, and her campaign against Obama (negative although it undoubtedly was), and Herr Trumpf's rhetoric about how Mexicans are all rapists, and how Muslims are all evil and should be registered (like the Nazis registered the Jews), then I can't help you.

[bettyellen]

15. Not a selling point for Sanders, having moron supporters who like Trump.

[ecstatic]

34. Ya know?

[840high]

42. Not a selling point for Hillary

that people dislike her that much.

[bettyellen]

43. so you respect Trump voters childish and misdirected anger?

Funny how often I have seen you complain about "low info" voters- but these ones you'll give a pass, eh?
Only in America.

[840high]

67. You have never seen me

complain about low-info voters. You must have me confused with someone else. I think all voters have a right to their opinions. I might not agree with them - but it's their right.

[bettyellen]

73. I have seen you say many rude things to POC and pretend no one answered you when asking

about reasons for AA support for Clinton. You completely insulted their opinions on many occasions.
Let's not pretend you have a habit of respectful discourse with Clinton voters.
But Trump voters don't earn your scorn- that is interesting!

[840high]

75. You do have me confused

with someone else. Don't change the topic. You do that all the time.
No American voter earns my scorn. I believe in freedom of expression and freedom of vote. Now - I can't take your imaginary posts anymore - so good-night.

[bettyellen]

76. the topic was the bizarre way Trump voters escape your wrath here....

do you want me to add links? if requested, I would be quite happy to!

[840high]

85. I have no wrath towards

my fellow Americans. 9-11 taught me that. We all came together united.

[msongs]

16. yeah like Trump cares more about McDonald so let's vote for him instead of hillary lol nt

[Skwmom]

18. That is not the reason they'd vote for him over Hillary. They KNOW she is not for the

working class and they do NOT trust her.

[NCTraveler]

19. Never overestimate the American voter.

When I read things like this it makes me wish more people put the U.S. education system higher on their list of concerns.

[SalviaBlue]

20. Stupid People

[Codeine]

21. PA office,workers all lifelong Democrats, all idiots.

Seriously, publicly stating a willingness to vote for Trump is some epic stupidity.

[Jackie Wilson Said]

26. I want NOTHING to do with ANYBODY who would vote for Trump. NEVER

[MineralMan]

27. Is there a source for this?

I mean, where does this story come from?

[earthshine]

29. Seems like just heresay and rumor to me. nt

[MineralMan]

32. Well, if there is a source, I would like to

Check it out.

[mythology]

61. The not particularly imaginative mind of the original poster would be my guess

I don't know about where anybody else works, but my office doesn't sit around discussing who we are going to vote for, much less making pacts to either vote for candidates at the ideological opposites.

[Skwmom]

82. No it's not. People are TALKING about this election. And when people spend long hours together

they do talk. This is based on a conversation that I had with someone and I do not doubt its validity.

It's not about a pact, it's about people discussing what they will do in the general election if it is Clinton versus a Republican.

If it is Clinton, the Democratic Establishment and Clinton supporters are going to be in for one hell of a rude awakening.

[vdogg]

108. Well, i'm sure there's a source.

Not sure you want to look in there though.

[bettyellen]

46. Is there ever these days? If it there was, we know it would be RW toilet paper.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

28. I'm hearing the opposite. Clinton supporters will vote for Trump because he'll keep us safe

from ISIS. They believe Hillary will, but Bernie won't!

[ecstatic]

31. Something isn't adding up...

Bernie's supporters love to hold progressive purity tests and are obsessed with "third way Democrats” who are supposedly pushing the party to the right, yet all I've been hearing lately is how Bernie is attracting a bunch of republicans and right wing libertarians who like Trump. How is that not pushing the party to the right?

[Skwmom]

94. Being for the people vs the 1% is a purity test?

[JTFrog]

33. Ok.

[jcgoldie]

35. Ignorant

Anyone who would vote for Donald Trump in any circumstance should not be used as evidence of anything in this forum other than idiocy.

[taught_me_patience]

37. people who are mad as hell and will vote irrationally because of it

Not really the type that I'd want for my coalition...

[Le Taz Hot]

49. You've nothing to worry about.

[sadoldgirl]

38. This is hard to understand.

It can only be seen as a protest vote, which serves no
purpose.

What I have experienced in my district is just a
"then I stay home" or vote green from the very
insistent Bernie supporters.

[FrenchieCat]

40. Yeah.....

that will show them!

[Amishman]

44. doesn't surprise me, Hillary does not seem popular in PA

my cousin says she will write in Deez Nuts in the general if given a choice between Hillary and Trump. I have convinced her to vote for Bernie in the primary.

[Kalidurga]

54. Vermin Supreme would be very disappointed to hear that.

Just kidding I think he said that a vote for him is a wasted vote.

[Beacool]

58. Hillary won PA by almost 10% in 2008.

[Le Taz Hot]

47. I'm hearing exactly the same thing.

[Ferd Berfel]

48. Yes! FED THE FUCK UP!

[Xithras]

50. My mother in law is the same way. It's annoying.

She wants an "outsider", and believes that Trump is playing the right and won't be nearly as bad as he lets on. She says flat out that he's "just telling the Republican idiots what they want to hear".

She wants Bernie. If he doesn't make it in, she wants Trump.

I plan on going third party if Sanders doesn't make it in, and am trying to convince her to at least join me on that. There's no reason for someone to vote for Trump...ever.

[hifiguy]

51. Zero surprise.

People are sick to the teeth of the professional political class, which HRH embodies as very few do.

[840high]

68. Correct. I hear it daily.

[steve2470]

53. now why in the hell would I vote for a BILLIONAIRE ?

It makes no sense when you think logically about it. He's out for HIS class first and foremost, not the average working person.

At least Secretary Clinton is not a billionaire and she's a Democrat, which is better than ANY Republican.

If you can (I'm assuming this is all accurate....), try to educate these people.

[Skwmom]

77. There is no advocating for the Clintons. People could advocate for Obama b/c he was in some

ways an unknown commodity. That is not the case with the Clintons.

[steve2470]

78. you seriously think ANY Republican is better than Secretary Clinton ?

I think we're done here. Au revoir.

[Skwmom]

99. That's not what I said. To advocate for someone, most people have to believe in that person. n/t

[Dawson Leery]

55. Much overlap between Bernie and Donald supporters, indeed.

[Beacool]

59. And they bring it up as if that was a good thing.

[840high]

69. Only Hillary supporters do that.

[bettyellen]

74. Sanders supporters are touting their "independent support" all day long, but I guess

they are afraid to look at how in and tenuous that support actually is.

[Starry Messenger]

60. Well, if they vote for Trump and he wins, they can enjoy being serfs.

The Supreme Court will be right-wing for 50 years.

[steve2470]

62. yep you nailed it nt

[Godhumor]

72. Cool story. N/t

[Recursion]

79. Well, both Trump and Sanders are really popular with low information voters

so that's not terribly surprising. And, hell, maybe we do need to fight fire with fire. IDK.

[Skwmom]

100. Clinton is not popular with informed voters. n/t

[redstateblues]

106. Clinton has a larger percentage of college grads

[Skwmom]

107. A college degree has nothing to do with how well informed you are.

It's elitist opinions like that which kind of explains why they don't seem to have a clue of what is going on.

[senz]

84. Establishment corruption turns people off.

[NCTraveler]

88. Kick. Nt

[blue neen]

89. A PA office, where in PA?

This particular office says that the Clintons are not for the working class, but Trump is?

This particular office is disturbed by the execution of Laquan McDonald, yet they would trust an avowed racist like Donald Trump to hold people accountable?

You need some more clarification on this report. Thank you.

[VulgarPoet]

91. Fuck 'em both.

Why would you go from Sanders to Trump in the first place? That alone beggars belief.

ETA: Subject refers to Trump and Clinton. I can't stomach either; and have a hard time believing someone could think Trump is a palatable alternative.

[Onlooker]

93. That's disgusting

While Bernie may need the votes of racists and xenophobes. It's hardly something to boast about.

[Skwmom]

95. They are not racists.

[Onlooker]

97. A vote for Trump is a vote for racism, and possibly fascism. n/t

[Orsino]

96. Difficult to believe. n/t

[vdogg]

101. This makes no logical sense whatsoever.

I call bullshit.

[Skwmom]

103. You can call it that until the cows come home but it doesn't make it any less true. n/t

[redstateblues]

105. Not buying it. Sorry. I don't believe they are lifelong Democrats

[Skwmom]

118. Look at history. People have left the Democratic Party.

[book_worm]

119. Let me get this straight--they are working for Bernie but will vote for Trump

if Hillary is the nominee? How fickle can you get. To go from a Socialist who condemns the excesses of Wall Street to the ultimate Capitalist. I guess his racist comments don't bother them either? Nice.