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This a shocking statistic and a huge red light for Clinton (Original Post) cali Feb 2016 OP
CNN Exit polls Jarqui Feb 2016 #1
Looks like Bernie is making inroads with older voters now. nt thereismore Feb 2016 #8
The Seniors are realizing that she's Triangulating Ferd Berfel Feb 2016 #37
Clinton loses the retirement vote, she's dead in the water. Feeling the Bern Feb 2016 #60
Not to mention the female vote. Duckfan Feb 2016 #108
I heard 55 percent of females voted for Bernie yesterday. Fawke Em Feb 2016 #143
Or some of Hillary's passed. tazkcmo Feb 2016 #176
That projects to Sanders 58% Clinton 40% but just an exit poll nt Jarqui Feb 2016 #11
Didn't the NAACP endorse Bernie today, too? MrMickeysMom Feb 2016 #56
Did they? I know that navarth Feb 2016 #59
Awww.. That was sweet of you to think it was... MrMickeysMom Feb 2016 #61
Well I think you're sweet to be such a good Mom. navarth Feb 2016 #63
Hiya, Frankie!!! MrMickeysMom Feb 2016 #67
for loving cats you get a heart! nt. Ligyron Feb 2016 #163
Ha! Ha! MrMickeysMom Feb 2016 #171
But Hillary Was Endorsed By the Governor of NH gordyfl Feb 2016 #93
Guess establishment creds don't do it, after all. senz Feb 2016 #100
I'm in that 48% for Sanders. I'm very happy nearl half of my age group has woke up. trillion Feb 2016 #80
I'm 69 hellraiser69 Feb 2016 #116
If I am in HRH's campaign office, hifiguy Feb 2016 #173
I'll just assume those 6% misunderstood the question. Matt_in_STL Feb 2016 #2
LOL! in_cog_ni_to Feb 2016 #6
Hahaha! n/t PonyUp Feb 2016 #7
Ayup. redwitch Feb 2016 #24
No, they understood it, but they lied jberryhill Feb 2016 #77
...and some of those Run for President! bvar22 Feb 2016 #159
That 6% was Hillary's DU supporters proving they can vote in a poll if they want to. n/t A Simple Game Feb 2016 #118
Wow I didn't think it Nite Owl Feb 2016 #3
Wow! That is ofstaggering proportion. morningfog Feb 2016 #4
Electability 12% NightWatcher Feb 2016 #5
Holy cow. beam me up scottie Feb 2016 #9
No wonder TTUBatfan2008 Feb 2016 #10
Mook had Sanders dead to rights-for attending a "posh" retreat with other Senators in the Caucus! merrily Feb 2016 #17
poor tweety, he cant find and good words to say:) litlbilly Feb 2016 #42
If his head explodes, his comb over is toast. merrily Feb 2016 #46
that is too funny:) litlbilly Feb 2016 #49
Your post made me laugh Jenny_92808 Feb 2016 #87
I have to give credit. I never noticed the comb over until a friend pointed it out to me. merrily Feb 2016 #88
heehee - I'd want a picture. 840high Feb 2016 #101
He's stuck somewhere between 1965 and New York City. merrily Feb 2016 #57
I think youre right litlbilly Feb 2016 #58
It's almost... DUbeornot2be Feb 2016 #144
It is impossible to recommend this thread enough. Sanders is the stronger GE candidate! n/t californiabernin Feb 2016 #12
If people don't think you're honest and trustworthy, kiss it goodbye. in_cog_ni_to Feb 2016 #13
actually... EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #15
What?! They want a dishonest and untrustworthy president? in_cog_ni_to Feb 2016 #19
the argument was this EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #23
LOL! All politicians EXCEPT Bernie Sanders are corrupt! in_cog_ni_to Feb 2016 #26
Even if EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #28
exactly. Fast Walker 52 Feb 2016 #70
thats whay people find out when they check. they have to do a double take, but its true litlbilly Feb 2016 #43
All politicians are corrupt, so let's don't vote for the ones who aren't? merrily Feb 2016 #50
People don't care about corruption nichomachus Feb 2016 #95
Would they care if it was their children lying to them? How about a car salesman? A Simple Game Feb 2016 #121
so what happens now..Hillary statistical tie in Iowa and INdemo Feb 2016 #75
I'm sure Hill has enough bankers to keep her lavishly funded through the Convention… regnaD kciN Feb 2016 #82
They can fund the Pacs Cassiopeia Feb 2016 #125
She'll probably simply go into debt, and spend personal funds. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #131
Well, history doesn't show her paying off her own debt. Cassiopeia Feb 2016 #136
...or plead for US to pay her bills because she is so poor, bvar22 Feb 2016 #160
There will be more excuses if he wins Nevada. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #129
BOOOOOM! EdwardBernays Feb 2016 #14
Red lights don't apply to the Clintons. However, it's a huge red light for the Democratic Party, or merrily Feb 2016 #16
I think even more shocking is that electability issue garnered about 10% so Nanjeanne Feb 2016 #18
we're gonna need a bigger boat juxtaposed Feb 2016 #20
^^^^GOOD ONE^^^^ Blus4u Feb 2016 #34
I think im gonna watch jaws tonight:) litlbilly Feb 2016 #44
And that special place in hell? They're going to have to build a BIG addiion onto it! Kip Humphrey Feb 2016 #110
winning the woman's vote!!!!! Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #21
Yes! and not just young women - he's winning with ALL WOMEN! in_cog_ni_to Feb 2016 #30
Right Yuuuuuuuge Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #32
Even the women don't like her. I don't like anything about her. SammyWinstonJack Feb 2016 #96
I don't either. in_cog_ni_to Feb 2016 #102
and not just the young women, across all demos from what ive heard litlbilly Feb 2016 #45
That's cause we're all looking for guys. LOL, dws..... Dont call me Shirley Feb 2016 #103
love it Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #104
Bernie's a chick magnet... Dont call me Shirley Feb 2016 #106
I'mna have to go in to the barber and ask for a 'Bernie' do. nt Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #132
.... Dont call me Shirley Feb 2016 #167
This Chick agrees. chknltl Feb 2016 #172
So Bernie really is a Chick magnet, now there's proof! Dont call me Shirley Feb 2016 #175
That is POWERFUL documentation. K&R Jefferson23 Feb 2016 #22
6%!!!!?....hole...ly...shit johnnyrocket Feb 2016 #25
WOW that is scary for the general, IF bernie doesnt win the nomination n/t demosocialist Feb 2016 #27
Bernie is principled, honest, has integrity, the courage of his convictions amborin Feb 2016 #29
Those are terrible numbers! Almost unbelievable Arazi Feb 2016 #31
Does anyone know if honesty/trustworthiness has always been the most important quality for voters? LonePirate Feb 2016 #33
theyve almost never had that choice before, until now that is and they like it litlbilly Feb 2016 #48
For many years after FDR the saying was vote your pocketbook. jwirr Feb 2016 #52
It sure wasn't important when Bill was running. Akicita Feb 2016 #53
Thank you for all you do for us, cali. Blus4u Feb 2016 #35
That is so nice of you. Thanks. cali Feb 2016 #36
Agreed. Cali is the best! Peace Patriot Feb 2016 #39
ditto:) litlbilly Feb 2016 #51
WORD!! bullwinkle428 Feb 2016 #64
+1000000 SammyWinstonJack Feb 2016 #98
Also known as (GASP!!) priniciples and ethics. Tierra_y_Libertad Feb 2016 #38
Hillary is bot and paid for. ErikJ Feb 2016 #40
Does anyone have a good source as to why Hillary is not trustworthy? anotherproletariat Feb 2016 #41
I think it comes down to the way her and Bill use triangulation jwirr Feb 2016 #55
Don't forget Iraq! regnaD kciN Feb 2016 #86
And I am sure I forgot a lot more of the wheeler dealer things jwirr Feb 2016 #94
Arms sales while collecting donations to the Clinton Foundation RunInCircles Feb 2016 #113
Under fire in Bosnia??? What a slap in the face to real KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #120
Thank you for all the input...just spent hours reading it, and researching several of your points... anotherproletariat Feb 2016 #179
Quick! Somebody say "berniebros" repeatedly Warren DeMontague Feb 2016 #47
ha! Fast Walker 52 Feb 2016 #71
Her "followers" cheer madly when she says get unaccountable money out of elections. senz Feb 2016 #54
That was a surreal moment jham123 Feb 2016 #137
Well, the ability of the Democratic Party to claim that any candidate posseses truedelphi Feb 2016 #169
Shocking in a delightful way! ozone_man Feb 2016 #62
Hillary: Have Fun Burning in Hell, Women of New Hampshire LS_Editor Feb 2016 #65
Cool your jets, it's NH. Beacool Feb 2016 #66
Sorry, that is a problem she has from coast to coast cali Feb 2016 #69
Whatever, Cali. Beacool Feb 2016 #72
If Sanders numbers with PoC don't go past where they're at with the GOP even if he wins all uponit7771 Feb 2016 #91
So you Think POC and Women Will Not Vote gordyfl Feb 2016 #107
So, acc. to your logic, POC will vote for Trump if Sanders KingCharlemagne Feb 2016 #123
no uponit7771 Feb 2016 #124
Hillary has a problem with the Independent vote Cassiopeia Feb 2016 #130
No it doesn't, She can win with what Obama had last time and the youth aren't going to Sanders uponit7771 Feb 2016 #133
OK, now Bernie doesn't have the youth vote. Cassiopeia Feb 2016 #134
Why do you think this? uponit7771 Feb 2016 #135
That is so far removed from the sphere of reality cali Feb 2016 #165
I think VT and Hawaii are the most liberal, ozone_man Feb 2016 #73
NH is NOT among the most liberal states in the nation. It's not even blue, ffs. It's purple. merrily Feb 2016 #74
I never said that it was. Beacool Feb 2016 #76
The meaning of "liberals" has been intentionally corrupted. How they vote is what matters. merrily Feb 2016 #78
Because it applies to all three states. Beacool Feb 2016 #83
No, your CLAIM that it applies to all three state does not make it so. It does not merrily Feb 2016 #85
It's Mardi Gras and I'm chilling. Beacool Feb 2016 #89
I guess you were too chill to make your point, other than by claiming it to be so. NH is purple. merrily Feb 2016 #90
The poster made their point ... you're not admitting that you 'get it', so it's hard to know ... brett_jv Feb 2016 #161
Making an unsupported claim and making a point are not the same thing. merrily Feb 2016 #177
Exactly: the meaning of "liberal" has been intentionally corrupted. senz Feb 2016 #166
Thank you senz. You are always so kind. merrily Feb 2016 #170
We have numerous people here who consider themselves to be progressives Kentonio Feb 2016 #140
"A few bucks". Try trillions of dollars. Beacool Feb 2016 #147
He's never pretended anything Kentonio Feb 2016 #151
I'm confused. Are you saying it's OK if voters think that about our probable nominee? MadDAsHell Feb 2016 #97
Because I don't consider either IA or NH a barometer of what the nation thinks. Beacool Feb 2016 #148
Neither do I; but that doesn't make it ok. MadDAsHell Feb 2016 #149
On that I agree. Beacool Feb 2016 #152
It's only Iowa jham123 Feb 2016 #139
Excuse me, no reasonable Hillary supporter would "say wait for NH". Beacool Feb 2016 #150
I guess I could spend.... jham123 Feb 2016 #153
OH, I believe you. Beacool Feb 2016 #155
.... jham123 Feb 2016 #158
That is not the current delegate count in NH, you counted Superdelegates that always vote with Dragonfli Feb 2016 #174
Good night now. frylock Feb 2016 #68
Good night. Sweet, victorious dreams, frylock cali Feb 2016 #79
I'm so excited, I can hardly contain myself! frylock Feb 2016 #81
LOL SoapBox Feb 2016 #84
Sweet dreams, frylock. senz Feb 2016 #99
Huge. H2O Man Feb 2016 #92
yuuuuuuuge Duckhunter935 Feb 2016 #105
Thanks for this Cali! Nt Logical Feb 2016 #109
Colonel Henry Blake: hifiguy Feb 2016 #111
How can people not trust Henry Kissenger's bestie? LondonReign2 Feb 2016 #112
Gotta get eyes checked. I thought you wrote 'beastie'. n/t PonyUp Feb 2016 #115
Would you buy a used car from Hillary? n/t PonyUp Feb 2016 #114
Her surrogates are hurting her as well: wolfie001 Feb 2016 #117
Nearly a quarter-century of hate radio/MSM lies is a huge handicap. Orsino Feb 2016 #119
If the Democratic Party sulphurdunn Feb 2016 #122
I totally agree with you. cali Feb 2016 #127
Sexist!!!!!! Erich Bloodaxe BSN Feb 2016 #126
no one knows anything about him.. asuhornets Feb 2016 #128
Yes they do. That no longer cuts it. cali Feb 2016 #141
I like him but I am voting for Hillary. asuhornets Feb 2016 #145
I agree that he should broaden his message cali Feb 2016 #154
I agree n/t asuhornets Feb 2016 #156
In 2008, no one knew who Obama would pick for his cabinet until AFTER he was elected, bvar22 Feb 2016 #162
the GOP smear machine created the thought long ago and every instance NoMoreRepugs Feb 2016 #138
The number is in this WSJ poll Fast Walker 52 Feb 2016 #142
great link! Thanks. n/t LittleGirl Feb 2016 #146
This is Yuoooooooooge!!!!! Kilgore Feb 2016 #178
It's a yuuuuuge red light for Clinton! ViseGrip Feb 2016 #157
Yeah..... Hillary's has some HUUUUUUGE negatives NiteOwl1 Feb 2016 #164
What's the big deal? Everyone lies. Right? Ivan Kaputski Feb 2016 #168

Ferd Berfel

(3,687 posts)
37. The Seniors are realizing that she's Triangulating
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 09:58 PM
Feb 2016

on not damaging Social Security and Medicare. Her web site is using Weasel words on these issues. People are understanding that and waking up.

Duckfan

(1,268 posts)
108. Not to mention the female vote.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:15 AM
Feb 2016

Did anyone see the coverage on CNN? Ol' Wolffy put up a graphic of how Bernie did with women voters.

I couldn't believe it. Don't remember if it was in 50-percentile, or 60. But is was significant.

Fawke Em

(11,366 posts)
143. I heard 55 percent of females voted for Bernie yesterday.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:58 PM
Feb 2016

So much for, "Vote With Your Vagina" politics.

navarth

(5,927 posts)
59. Did they? I know that
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 10:33 PM
Feb 2016

Ben Jealous, the former head of the NAACP endorsed Bernie last week.

BTW Mom, I love that kitty gif where he slides his nose right at the camera. Is that Mr. Mickey?

And also, if I'm not being inappropriate: are you ok? I know it's horrible to lose a beloved kitty. Been there too many times. Every time I see your post with that cute nose sliding towards me I think of you and Mr. Mickey. I'm a sucker for kitties, wish I could save every last one of them. Pardon the intrusion.

MrMickeysMom

(20,453 posts)
61. Awww.. That was sweet of you to think it was...
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 10:36 PM
Feb 2016

Actually, my left hand corner is Mr. Mickey, rest his precious little soul. But, the tabby down on the right has his face, but is definitely someone else's gif.

I DO have memories of Mr. Mickey being vacuumed that I will have to make into a gif one day.

navarth

(5,927 posts)
63. Well I think you're sweet to be such a good Mom.
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 10:40 PM
Feb 2016

I've got our boy Frankie in my lap as I write this. What a good lad he is.

Yes, they are precious little souls, aren't they? Frankie says hi.

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
173. If I am in HRH's campaign office,
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:53 PM
Feb 2016

I am stocking up on brown trousers after seeing that.

She BARELY won the older demographic and got slaughtered with the younger people. The moving finger writes....

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
77. No, they understood it, but they lied
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:13 PM
Feb 2016

Figure, a certain percentage of the population consists of pathological liars.

TTUBatfan2008

(3,623 posts)
10. No wonder
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 09:14 PM
Feb 2016

The attack dogs have been out in force. No doubt the campaign had similar internal polling on the integrity issue.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
88. I have to give credit. I never noticed the comb over until a friend pointed it out to me.
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:23 PM
Feb 2016

Same for Scarborough's toupee.

DUbeornot2be

(367 posts)
144. It's almost...
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 01:01 PM
Feb 2016

...as if they made a decision to disregard favorabilty ratings altogether since people don't trust her anyway...

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
13. If people don't think you're honest and trustworthy, kiss it goodbye.
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 09:16 PM
Feb 2016

Who wants a president they think is a liar and can't be trusted? No one!

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
19. What?! They want a dishonest and untrustworthy president?
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 09:21 PM
Feb 2016

Why? Who? would want someone like that to lead this country? That makes no sense. We had 8 years if that with Bush and Cheney.

Sad!

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
26. LOL! All politicians EXCEPT Bernie Sanders are corrupt!
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 09:34 PM
Feb 2016

He's good to the core. Everyone else isn't.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

 

litlbilly

(2,227 posts)
43. thats whay people find out when they check. they have to do a double take, but its true
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 10:12 PM
Feb 2016

an actual honest politican

nichomachus

(12,754 posts)
95. People don't care about corruption
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:33 PM
Feb 2016

When the corrupt politician benefits the people. When the corrupt politician benefits the elite, people don't like it at all.

James Michael Curley in Boston was corrupt, but he fought for the little guy. Buddy Cianci (RIP) of Providence was corrupt, but he did great things for the city. People liked both of them.

But when all your corruption does is line your own pockets -- $675,000 for a 20-minute speech? -- or the pockets of billionaires, people don't like it.

I still can't understand working-class Hillary supporters effectively voting against their own best interests. I thought that was a Republican thing.

A Simple Game

(9,214 posts)
121. Would they care if it was their children lying to them? How about a car salesman?
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:39 AM
Feb 2016

Or anyone for any reason?

You really have to just shake your head at some peoples reasoning.

INdemo

(6,994 posts)
75. so what happens now..Hillary statistical tie in Iowa and
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:10 PM
Feb 2016

loses NH and what if now Bernie with huge momentum now wins NV ..what happena then with Hillary's funding?Does her deep pockets Wall St friends take a time out and a second look at her?

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
131. She'll probably simply go into debt, and spend personal funds.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:03 PM
Feb 2016

She can just go out and give a few more speeches afterwards to pay it off.

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
136. Well, history doesn't show her paying off her own debt.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:10 PM
Feb 2016

She passes that off onto the people, or at least she did after the '08 election loss.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
160. ...or plead for US to pay her bills because she is so poor,
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 03:00 PM
Feb 2016

like she did last time. Its a Clinton thing.

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
129. There will be more excuses if he wins Nevada.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:02 PM
Feb 2016

They've already started downplaying expectations. "It's a caucus state." "It's less Latino than people think."

merrily

(45,251 posts)
16. Red lights don't apply to the Clintons. However, it's a huge red light for the Democratic Party, or
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 09:17 PM
Feb 2016

it damn well should be.

And that's not counting the risk of the FBI investigation or the impact of all the baggage in the general.

Nanjeanne

(4,950 posts)
18. I think even more shocking is that electability issue garnered about 10% so
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 09:19 PM
Feb 2016

People are voting their conscience on who they WANT elected . . .

Not basing their vote on who the pundits are telling them is most electable.

in_cog_ni_to

(41,600 posts)
30. Yes! and not just young women - he's winning with ALL WOMEN!
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 09:38 PM
Feb 2016

That's yoooooge! Even the women don't like her.

PEACE
LOVE
BERNIE

chknltl

(10,558 posts)
172. This Chick agrees.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 08:51 PM
Feb 2016

I am a card carrying Chick because due to my last name being Chick it is on all of my cards!

LonePirate

(13,417 posts)
33. Does anyone know if honesty/trustworthiness has always been the most important quality for voters?
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 09:40 PM
Feb 2016

It seems like a given that this should always be the case but I am wondering if this is a long standing value for Dem voters or if it is a relatively new phenomenon (i.e. strong leader being most important in the past).

Blus4u

(608 posts)
35. Thank you for all you do for us, cali.
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 09:52 PM
Feb 2016

You deserve all of your hearts and more for your tenaciousness, the information you bring us and your willingness to jump in toe to toe when the fur is flying!

Peace to you and yours

 

anotherproletariat

(1,446 posts)
41. Does anyone have a good source as to why Hillary is not trustworthy?
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 10:10 PM
Feb 2016

Whenever I get asked this question, I find myself falling back on repub talking points. I would much rather have good, progressive facts to use in such discussions. The pro-Hillary people always say that she is a target of drummed up attacks by the right, and none of it is true.

jwirr

(39,215 posts)
55. I think it comes down to the way her and Bill use triangulation
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 10:23 PM
Feb 2016

to make deals. Also things like her vote on the bankruptcy bill - she claimed for years to be helping women and then votes for that crap. So much of what they have done ends up profiting themselves instead of those who needed help.

RunInCircles

(122 posts)
113. Arms sales while collecting donations to the Clinton Foundation
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:13 AM
Feb 2016

While I doubt anything illegal occurred this is the most amazing under-reported issue.
There may have been no connection and yet it leaves the impression for the rest of the world that a top US official was open to bribery. How is this not a judgment lapse greater than the Iraq war vote. Was there a public announcement that I am unaware of stating that Hillary was recusing herself from the approval process for any donor to her foundation?
Imagine the optics "psst: The Secretary of State of the United States of America can be bribed to approve arms sales."

 

anotherproletariat

(1,446 posts)
179. Thank you for all the input...just spent hours reading it, and researching several of your points...
Sat Feb 13, 2016, 08:34 PM
Feb 2016

I have been totally pro-Bernie, but reading through these opinions, and looking for documentation for many of the things that were said, I can't help but wonder if we are all falling for a conservative trap. Not many of the criticisms really hold water. Most are subjective. The right is spending tons of money trashing Hillary (which, I admit, doesn't seem that hard to do), but they are leaving Bernie totally alone. All of my republican neighbors are salivating at the chance that Bernie might win the nomination. They think that he is doing fairly well in the polls right now because there have been virtually no negative attacks on him. In fact, my republican brother (who is fairly young and had previously been a democrat, but has had recent significant financial success) has been to some big donor parties for Jeb and Kasich, and at both was told specifically to just leave Bernie alone and continue to bring up all of Hillary's faults when discussing politics with friends/colleagues.

Honestly, I would LOVE to have Bernie as president. He would clearly be the most liberal president ever, but I wonder if that is just too good to be true. Heck, when we elected Obama we knew that he was moderate on many things that went against my beliefs (gay marriage being the big one), but felt that he was the best candidate to carry the torch of the Democratic Party. But I have a very hard time visualizing a path for him to the victory in November. I know, I know...people hate the electability argument. Really though, can you see those majority of repubs who don't want Muslims to enter the country supporting a non-christian candidate? I go to a liberal church, and there are many people there who couldn't imagine a president who was not christian. And that is with most of American thinking he is Jewish...imagine when they find out he is agnostic. Also, can't you just see the ads about the socialism thing? Of course they won't focus on the fact that democratic socialism is very different from Marxist socialism, and when Bernie fights back, it will just look desperate. This is totally aside from the facts of his age, his appearance, and his tendency to lose his cool (again, something I love because we are at the point in this country where we NEED to lose our cool!). You know they are also going to dig up other things, be they truth or not, that will be used against him.

The death of Scalia has really made me stop and think about how important it is to get a democrat in the white house. I'm getting scared. I see so many people a few years younger than me just following the Bernie crowd blindly, with no ability to voice their reasons, other than 'that's what their friends are doing'. I would welcome reassurance from the Bernie peeps, but please give me facts, not just that "Hillary is evil or untrustworthy". Because when I look into those claims, it just seems to be the result of specific political moves that happen over the course of a career in politics, all of which can be spinned in several ways.

I've read other posts in my short time on this site like this one, and the writer inevitably is accused of being a troll. This is absolutely not the case here, I am dying to engage in intelligent, adult conversation about the best course for our party. Honestly, if I was a troll I would post this in a more obvious place. By putting it at the end of a long thread, I am hoping that a few thoughtful people might find it and answer. Smart discourse is the reason I came here in the first place. I was learning nothing from the hotheads on Facebook and twitter. I have respect for both Democratic candidates and their supporters (well, most of them!). I want to believe in miracles, but there really is no precedent for the Bernie revolution we all want so much. I'm afraid that the fervent hope for dramatic change is blinding us to reality.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
54. Her "followers" cheer madly when she says get unaccountable money out of elections.
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 10:19 PM
Feb 2016

They are clueless. She is shameless.

jham123

(278 posts)
137. That was a surreal moment
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:16 PM
Feb 2016

....indeed.

I mean, she watches Bernie's speeches and usurps excerpts from them despite her being the actual topic when Bernie states such....how does she or her followers not see that??

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
169. Well, the ability of the Democratic Party to claim that any candidate posseses
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 07:11 PM
Feb 2016

X amount of that group of voters is now meaningless.

Only 36% of all Americans feel themselves to be tied down to a Democratic Candidate. And many many of them, I imagine, are relieved and enthused (as I am) that Mr Sanders is running.

We have been fooled so many times we are not going to let it happen again.

LS_Editor

(893 posts)
65. Hillary: Have Fun Burning in Hell, Women of New Hampshire
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 10:48 PM
Feb 2016

This is satire. It references a quote made by Madeleine Albright that has been DEFENDED by Hillary Clinton. Enjoy.

Hillary: Have Fun Burning in Hell, Women of New Hampshire

WASHINGTON (The Nil Admirari) - Tonight, Democratic presidential candidate and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told the women of New Hampshire to "have fun burning in hell" after it was clear she had lost the state's Democratic primary election to U.S. Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Clinton's remark referenced a statement made last weekend by former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Madeleine Albright that "there's a special place in hell for women that don't help each other."
(emphasis added by ME)

+

Secretary Clinton continued, "And that goes for all the women in New Hampshire, even those that voted for me. They didn't convince enough of their fellow women to just vote for me because I am also a woman.


More at link...

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
66. Cool your jets, it's NH.
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 10:55 PM
Feb 2016

What do VT, IA and NH have in common? Overwhelmingly white and, among Democrats, they are the first, second and third most liberal states in the nation.

I wouldn't read too much yet on the exit poll questions. We'll see how it goes in NV, SC and the SEC states.

Until then, congratulations to Sanders and his supporters for tonight's win.


 

cali

(114,904 posts)
69. Sorry, that is a problem she has from coast to coast
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:02 PM
Feb 2016

and it has been getting steadily worse. You can bet her campaign is paying close attention.

But thank you very much.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
72. Whatever, Cali.
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:05 PM
Feb 2016

The proof will be in the pudding after Super Tuesday. I don't have a crystal ball, so I won't read all sorts of portents out of the results in NH.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
91. If Sanders numbers with PoC don't go past where they're at with the GOP even if he wins all
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:26 PM
Feb 2016

... 50 states we'll lose the general.

Clinton nationally does not have the problem with the general dem electorate that Sanders has with PoC and women right now.

gordyfl

(598 posts)
107. So you Think POC and Women Will Not Vote
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:59 PM
Feb 2016

for the Democratic nominee, if Bernie wins the nomination? Do you think they will stay home, or vote Republican in the General Election.

Cassiopeia

(2,603 posts)
130. Hillary has a problem with the Independent vote
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:03 PM
Feb 2016

which translates to a loss in the GE.

Hill gets the nom and we hand the keys back to the Republicans.

uponit7771

(90,335 posts)
133. No it doesn't, She can win with what Obama had last time and the youth aren't going to Sanders
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:05 PM
Feb 2016

... along racial lines either.

Sanders has GOP numbers with PoC nationally... he'll have to get those numbers up before June

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
165. That is so far removed from the sphere of reality
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 03:35 PM
Feb 2016

Not the stuff about Bernie, but the way out fantasy that hilly can replicate the Obama coalition.

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
73. I think VT and Hawaii are the most liberal,
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:06 PM
Feb 2016

then Massachusetts. Iowa and NH are pretty main stream. NH is historically conservative, but in an independent way. They will vote for a socialist Democrat, if they think he's telling the truth.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
76. I never said that it was.
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:13 PM
Feb 2016

I added the qualifier "among Democrats". The percentage of Democrats who consider themselves to be liberals is higher in those three states. In IA, for example, 43% of Democrats identify themselves as Socialists.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
78. The meaning of "liberals" has been intentionally corrupted. How they vote is what matters.
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:14 PM
Feb 2016

Why are you changing the subject to Iowa? My post to you was only about NH.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
83. Because it applies to all three states.
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:19 PM
Feb 2016

The Democrats within those states are pretty liberal. In Southern states the majority of Democrats identify themselves as moderate to conservative. My whole point is that Sanders' version of liberalism resonates in those three states a lot more than it will resonate in some others.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
85. No, your CLAIM that it applies to all three state does not make it so. It does not
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:20 PM
Feb 2016

apply to New Hampshire, which is a purple state.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
89. It's Mardi Gras and I'm chilling.
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:24 PM
Feb 2016

You refuse to see my point, so....

Ciao....

Laissez les bons temps rouler!!!

merrily

(45,251 posts)
90. I guess you were too chill to make your point, other than by claiming it to be so. NH is purple.
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:26 PM
Feb 2016

Roll away. I know I will.

brett_jv

(1,245 posts)
161. The poster made their point ... you're not admitting that you 'get it', so it's hard to know ...
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 03:02 PM
Feb 2016

Whether you do or not. The state itself being purple was not in dispute. The point they're making is that the DEMOCRATS in NH are overall among the most liberal in the US. This could be true in the reddest of red states, because only the BLUE portion of it ... is being addressed.

I don't know if the 'point' is factual or not, but the point was very clear from their first post, at least to me.

merrily

(45,251 posts)
177. Making an unsupported claim and making a point are not the same thing.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:09 PM
Feb 2016

It takes more than claiming something and, when challenged, simply repeating it to make a point. That you don't know if the poster's comment is true or not proves she did not make her point. Had she provided some evidence, for example, that winners of New Hampshire Democratic primaries are more liberal than winners of most other primaries around the country, she may have made her point. She didn't.

 

senz

(11,945 posts)
166. Exactly: the meaning of "liberal" has been intentionally corrupted.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 04:37 PM
Feb 2016
Intentionally corrupted. People need to know this. People need to know how they're being manipulated.

Thanks for speaking the truth, merrily.
 

Kentonio

(4,377 posts)
140. We have numerous people here who consider themselves to be progressives
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:26 PM
Feb 2016

Yet lose their minds over the idea of raising taxes by a few bucks to provide paid family leave. What people consider themselves to be is often a strange and confusing thing to behold..

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
147. "A few bucks". Try trillions of dollars.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 01:55 PM
Feb 2016

The issue is not what we think here. The issue is Sanders proposing things he will never be able to fulfill. When that fact is pointed out to him, he always brings up a "political revolution". Yeah, well wake me up when it occurs. Wishful thinking of people uprising to demand that Congress passes your agenda is exactly that, wishful thinking. It's also disingenuous. He's not stupid, he knows perfectly well what he will encounter with Congress. Why pretend otherwise? IMO, he's selling his supporters a bill of goods. The young are too inexperienced to know it, the very liberal still hope against hope that it will happen.

 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
97. I'm confused. Are you saying it's OK if voters think that about our probable nominee?
Tue Feb 9, 2016, 11:36 PM
Feb 2016

How are we OK with Democrats thinking that about their own nominee, regardless of the state it's coming from?

 

MadDAsHell

(2,067 posts)
149. Neither do I; but that doesn't make it ok.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 02:00 PM
Feb 2016

If ANY state has that big of an issue with the trustworthiness of our nominee, that is not a good thing and shouldn't be ignored just because she'll presumably still get nominated.

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
152. On that I agree.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 02:07 PM
Feb 2016

The constant pounding of Republicans on Benghazi and now the e-mail server has eroded people's confidence to a degree. Hillary will just have to work harder to prove them wrong.

jham123

(278 posts)
139. It's only Iowa
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:22 PM
Feb 2016

That's what you Hillary supporters stated last week...then followed up with "Wait till NH, it's not nearly as white as Iowa"

But WAIT! there's more!

So, how long are you going to keep this up? I mean 21 points, that's phenomenal. "Mandate" does not really describe it, more like "landslide" in Bernie's favor.

Last week .026% was a Yooooooge victory for Clinton, but 21 whole points = "Wait till next week"...

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
150. Excuse me, no reasonable Hillary supporter would "say wait for NH".
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 02:01 PM
Feb 2016

Sanders was ahead by 20% to 30%. I had written off both states and was pleasantly surprised when Hillary pulled ahead in IA, even if it was by a very thin margin.

Besides, it's all about the delegates. Sanders won NH handily, but here's the current delegate count in that state.

Hillary 15
Sanders 13



jham123

(278 posts)
153. I guess I could spend....
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 02:07 PM
Feb 2016

the next 20 minutes finding the post from last week. Would that do any good? Would you Cede the point even if I 'showed' you the post?

Beacool

(30,247 posts)
155. OH, I believe you.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 02:09 PM
Feb 2016

I'm just pointing out that it wasn't a reasonable conclusion by that Hillary supporter.

jham123

(278 posts)
158. ....
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 02:17 PM
Feb 2016

"by that Hillary supporter."

By THOSE Hillary supporterS"

It wasn't just one. There were plenty.

"And the AAs will support Hillary more in the states that aren't all White like Iowa".....that statement was duly noted by myself as well.

Dragonfli

(10,622 posts)
174. That is not the current delegate count in NH, you counted Superdelegates that always vote with
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 09:22 PM
Feb 2016

the population later on at the convention. If they did not, they would be paid off or simply corrupt. Such corruption has yet to happen, ever, do you know something about payoffs or corruption this year in NH that we do not that would make NH 2016 the first state to ignore the will of the voters and override the election making the election a mockery as if we lived in a third world country?

 

hifiguy

(33,688 posts)
111. Colonel Henry Blake:
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 10:43 AM
Feb 2016

"Why don't I trust you guys?"

Trapper John (smiling): "Because we're not trustworthy."

wolfie001

(2,227 posts)
117. Her surrogates are hurting her as well:
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:34 AM
Feb 2016

Daughter: “Senator Sanders wants to dismantle Obamacare, dismantle the CHIP program, dismantle Medicare and private insurance.”
Husband: "Hillary's opponent has a different view, It's a hermetically sealed box."

Keep it up "helpers". Go Bernie!!!

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
119. Nearly a quarter-century of hate radio/MSM lies is a huge handicap.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:36 AM
Feb 2016

Whatever anyone thinks of her actual career, a big chunk of that negativity is the result of hypnosis, and utter bullshit.

 

sulphurdunn

(6,891 posts)
122. If the Democratic Party
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:41 AM
Feb 2016

establishment let Sanders win the primary, and he then won the presidency, they'd be out on their asses. Do you think they would allow that? Might they rather risk running Clinton and losing the election to keep the power regardless of the will of the people?

Erich Bloodaxe BSN

(14,733 posts)
126. Sexist!!!!!!
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 11:57 AM
Feb 2016

We all know that a 'red light' is used by women of the night, so you're obviously calling Clinton the W word!

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
141. Yes they do. That no longer cuts it.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:48 PM
Feb 2016

And what we've seen to date, is that as people get to know him, they like him.

asuhornets

(2,405 posts)
145. I like him but I am voting for Hillary.
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 01:03 PM
Feb 2016

He wants to raise taxes, not gonna fly. Who will he pick for his Secretary of State, Defense. No one has a clue. The race is moving fast and there are many unanswered questions. He should broaden his message.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
154. I agree that he should broaden his message
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 02:09 PM
Feb 2016

Hillary needs to articulate an overarching aspirational vision. And no, she hasn't yet done that.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
162. In 2008, no one knew who Obama would pick for his cabinet until AFTER he was elected,
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 03:14 PM
Feb 2016

and then he surprised us by keeping many Bush appointed Republicans,
and did THIS for his cabinet:
[font size=4]
The DLC New Team
[/font]

(Screen Capped from the DLC Website)

So, no. That argument holds no water.

NoMoreRepugs

(9,413 posts)
138. the GOP smear machine created the thought long ago and every instance
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 12:20 PM
Feb 2016

where 'trustworthiness' can be factored in has that built in bias - true or false doesn't matter - it's the perception that is important.

 

NiteOwl1

(87 posts)
164. Yeah..... Hillary's has some HUUUUUUGE negatives
Wed Feb 10, 2016, 03:24 PM
Feb 2016

If it comes down to Hillary and Trump (I doubt)... it will be a battle of the "negatives".

Who is disliked the least.... Hmmmm

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