We are a center-left nation on balance, not a FAR left nation. That's why Hillary is more electable.

[RBInMaine]

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times, Bernie is a good man whose heart is in the right place. If I could waive a magic wand and have his agenda enacted with huge public support for it, I would. But this is the real world. Bernie would have a HUGE problem in the general election, and here is why:

1) The R argument, night and day, would be that Bernie is simply TOO FAR TO THE LEFT and is trying to transform us into a socialist European country. They would say that we are NOT a socialist European country, don't want to be, and it would be VERY effective.

2) You would hear SOCIALISTCOMMUNISTSOCIALISTCOMMUNIST!!! from the rooftops night and day and day and night.

3) Regardless of promised reductions in insurance premiums, all you will hear will be ENDLESS ads saying "Bernie wants to raise middle class taxes!!!!!!" They will use edited clips of him saying, "Yes, taxes will go up." and it will be very, very, damaging.

4) You will hear night and day and day and night that he wants to expand government by tens of trillions of dollars at a time when people distrust government.

5) Bernie lacks foreign policy experience, and this will be very much a foreign policy election. The last thing we need is someone who can not be envisioned as a ready-on-day-one commander in chief of the US armed forces. The R's would make HUGE hay with this one.

***** The day Bernie declared himself a "Democratic Socialist" is the day he disqualified himself from winning a general election. It is just that simple. The MAJORITY of Americans are CENTER-left, and NOT far-left. That is just the simple truth.*****

This is not an "attack". I AGREE with Bernie. I LOVE him. But I am not EVERYONE in America. We need big ideas, but there is also TOO big, and TOO far out of the mainstream of the body politic and what is actually doable in AMERICA. In the general election, Hillary is simply more electable. She IS progressive, though not a purist. She is a TOUGH FIGHTER. She has already endured YEARS of Republican attacks and is still standing TALL. And she is ready on day one.

[dogman]

1. Just imagine the things we'll hear.

Have you not seen the hammer and sickle replace the letter C in Clinton or superimposed over the Obama campaign logo? So we must let the RW determine electability and acceptability? Come on, be brave and stand for what you believe.

[RBInMaine]

3. I am. I believe Hillary is PROGRESSIVE and TOUGH! She is more electable than Bernie.

[dogman]

16. Sorry I took you're writing seriously.

"This is not an 'attack'. I AGREE with Bernie. I LOVE him. But I am not EVERYONE in America. We need big ideas, but there is also TOO big, and TOO far out of the mainstream of the body politic and what is actually doable in AMERICA." I guess what you think others think is what you believe.

[Floridanow]

47. The majority of voters know nothing about

Bernie. Republicans will pound Bernie. Americans don't understand what democratic-socialism is, and that will dramatically injure Sanders in a general race.

[hobbit709]

2. Hillary would have to move pretty far left just to get to the center.

[RBInMaine]

5. Bullshit. That is an extremist purist statement.

[hobbit709]

7. and a load of taurine metabolic byproducts right back at you.

[RBInMaine]

10. Tell me SPECIFICALLY how he wins the GE, not just abstract idealistic platitudes.

[hobbit709]

12. How about you tell me SPECIFICALLY exactly how Hillary is Center-Left.

[RBInMaine]

22. Ok, fine, here goes:

* Is for overturning Citizens United with by court decision or constitutional amendment.
* Supports a woman's right to choose.
* Supports planned parenthood.
* Supports a higher minimum wage and full wage equality.
* Supports expanding the ACA to full coverage for all.
* Supports continued investment in green energy.
* Wants employee profit sharing.
* Wants to close bad corporate tax loopholes.
* Wants the rich to pay more taxes.
* Wants to enforce and strengthen Dodd-Frank.
* Wants to crush ISIS but WITHOUT U.S. ground forces.
* VERY strong on foreign policy with vast experience.
* Wants sensible gun safety and ready to stand up to the NRA.
* Supports LGTB rights.
* Wants debt free college.

And the list goes on and on. No she isn't a purist, but she is PROGRESSIVE. So ENOUGH of the silly nonsense from ANYONE that she isn't. The right wing attacks her night and day. They are SCARED of her, and they damn well SHOULD be!

Now, tell me, with MANY SPECIFICS, just how a self-declared socialist wins the AMERICAN general presidential election.

[Hoyt]

30. +1.

[BlueMTexpat]

36. +2! eom

[elias49]

50. Heh. Sounds like she borrowed Bernie's noes.

I wouldn't put it past her.

[enid602]

55. agree

+3 However, I would disagree with the OP's assertion that we are a center left country. I fear we might still be a center right country, despite all of the anti-establishment sentiment. I observed with a sense of horror that the Republicans were able to turn out more primary voters in IA.

[earthside]

57. "Purist" is the word of the day.

In 'reality' (another favorite word of the Hillarians lately) Sen. Sanders is pretty much a New Deal Democrat in his proposals.

It is a testament to how far right the nation and the Democratic Party establishment have gone that New Deal and Square Deal policies are now considered extremist far left.

The Sanders candidacy in many ways is an effort to merely reclaim liberal-progressive Democratic Party principles for the Democratic Party.

[Gregorian]

4. Be brave and stand up for your rights.

Bernie's political vision is 1900 mainstream American politics. What you have written is the means by which we moved to the right as a party, enabling people like Bush to get into office.

This is buying into republican fear.

Ask for cheese, and you might get crumbs. Ask for the moon, and you might get a piece of cheese. We aren't getting the moon. But we can try. So far the big bad wolf republicans have us cowering to keep them from being all blustery. Screw them. They are our enemy.

[RBInMaine]

8. Bullshit. No self-declared socialist wins an AMERICAN general election. You are speaking in

abstractions, not specifics and reality.

[dogman]

19. No black man ever won an AMERICAN general election either.

Until he did.

[Gregorian]

27. Please watch this. Bernie has been under a virtual media blackout, yet he is flourishing.

&feature=em-uploademail

[H2O Man]

6. Respectfully disagree.

I believe that Sanders can win in November. I also think that Clinton could win in November. But I am convinced that Bernie has a better chance.

Still, this is a really good OP. Recommended.

[RBInMaine]

9. Explain with specifics how a self-declared socialist wanting to expand government by TRILLIONS wins.

[H2O Man]

15. Gracious.

Fascinating change in tone from the OP.

Since I do not believe that what you said in this post is accurate, I feel no need to try answer the charge.

[whatchamacallit]

11. Utter crap n/t

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. Too liberal!! Too Libeal!! Socialist!!

Give it a rest. It's not selling.

[DefenseLawyer]

14. People in the middle may have some vague notion

That they "hate" the political philosophy of Bernie Sanders. But many of those same people have a very specific notion that they "hate" Hillary Clinton, the person. There is a very big difference.

[immoderate]

17. We are actually a right wing oligarchy, that Hillary accepts.

Bernie seems to me, a traditional new dealer. None of his proposals is radical. It works well elsewhere.

--imm

[BillZBubb]

18. Hillary is center-right. And the center has moved rightward for decades.

She's progressive on a few issues, but on economics and foreign policy, she's a rightist. Her record is very clear on that.

Bernie will have problems in general election running from the left. But, Hillary also has a ton of baggage that is problematic in a general election.

[ShrimpPoboy]

56. Compared to most other countries

we're definitely right leaning. I feel like the pendulum is swinging the other way at the moment, but I agree that Bernie may be too early.

[closeupready]

20. And four years ago, people like you claimed we are a "center right" nation.

And as then, you provided ZERO of substance to back up those claims.

If anything, the United States is solid left, taking into account the sum total of our history.

[Floridanow]

49. President Obama has moved the country

To center-left.

[closeupready]

60. From solid left to "center-left"? Well very possibly.

But again, no data. No science. Just speculation.

[99Forever]

21. Bullshit.

Just plain bullshit.

'nuf said.

[Glamrock]

23. I don't know man

His policies consistently poll at 50% or better with the American people, for 1.
Secondly, I think the GOP has cried wolf for so long (with regard to Socialism) that it doesn't carry the same weight in this election. Especially if you're saying it out loud and describing policies people want.
Finally, I firmly believe his $ in politics message will be the loudest sound in the room.

I agree with you concerning his foreign policy. Not his judgement, mind you. But his chops.

Truth is I'm on the Bernie train to proclaim to my government those ideals I embrace and the policies I want enacted. I'll take the gamble. If I lose, The GOP gets the WH in 2017. If Hillary wins, they get it in 2021. If Bernie. a self-proclaimed socialist (ooga booga!) is elected by a movement? Who knows?

[farleftlib]

25. Oh noes!!

Oh no, not THIS crap AGAIN. Bernie is a SOCIALIST, he owns it. It STOPPED being an ISSUE a while ago. BUT don't let THAT STOP YOU, from posting SOMETHING over AND OVER AGAIN that has ALREADY been PUT TO REST.

[Attorney in Texas]

26. Sanders is center left. There is no left in Clinton. She'd be in the conservative party in every

other democracy in the industrialized world. The liberal parties in the rest of the globe's democracies are well to the left of Sanders.

The US government (but not our people) moved rightward outside of the global mainstream when Reagan pushed the Republicans rightward (from where Eisenhower-Nixon-Ford governed) and Bill Clinton pushed the Democrats rightward (from where JFK-LBJ-Carter governed).

[cali]

28. Her unfavorables are very high. She has a huge wall street problem

Her email is general election pitfall. She guarantees record breaking turnout- of republicans. She won't inspire turnout of dems. She does abysmally with independents. She is not electable.

[DirkGently]

29. We're in a radical place already. Sanders is moderate in

historical and worldwide terms. Arguments like this lack historical and international perspective in my opinion.

Democrats were shocked and appalled when Ronald Reagan was elected and smacked America into a hard right, government hating, corporations über allies vein. The entire party was humiliated at the way Carter was unfairly blamed for everything from gas prices to the hostage crisis, and practically run out of town on a rail.

THAT was radical. Radical in terms of where America had been; radical in terms of the world stage. Today we are one of the most hawkish, military interventionist nations on earth, with crumbling infrastructure, whisper-thin environmental protections, and an antiquated, irrational health care system shared only with Mexico and Turkey.

There is always a question of how far we can go, and how fast. But you don't get there without pushing for what you want. Obama swept into office on "Hope and Change," and got ... some of it. The question now is whether Democrats are willing to push for more of what we wanted from him, or less.

Regardless of the candidates, though, these trends are cyclical to a degree. Reagan and the neocons have only been with us for 30 years or so. They did not establish either the baseline for American politics and policy, or the inevitable future. They represent a radical blip on the graph, and one we don't have to live with forever.

Look at how people are talking now. Republican corporatism is in shambles. Carly frickin'-Fiorina was trying to talk about helping the middle class. Donald Trump is mumbling his way through some version of universal health care. Almost no one is willing to admit to any plan to bring America into a committed war in Syria.

Center-right America is breathing its last. There's nothing radical or impossible about helping it into its well-deserved place in the ash-heap of history and moving the country back toward where we were and the rest of the civilized world already is, waiting for us.

[SaintLouisBlues]

65. +

[Lorien]

31. If we're a center left Country, then Bernie is the ONLY choice

and Bernie has the support of Dems, Greens, Libertarians, Republicans, and Independents. Hillary only has conservative party blinded DLC "Democrats" and conservative Independents. Her positions on the issues run contrary to those of most voters, and her disapproval ratings ensure that she would lose in the general election. It's Bernie or a Republican.

[EdwardBernays]

32. Imagine Hillary v Trump

She's bought and paid for. She took millions for defense contractors and hired the owner of one of DC's biggest lobbying firms to be her campaign chairman. She offers more of the same as Obama, which brought us the Iran deal - totally bad deal - and Benghazi. And of course while she was Secretary of State countries like Algeria and Saudi Arabia got weapons deals against the State Department's own advice. Which is bad enough. What's worse is that companies and countries which donated to The Clinton Foundation were TWICE as likely to have their deals approved by Hillary. Saudi Arabia, a country her current Campaign Chairman's lobbying firm represents, got a 29 billion dollar deal with Boeing after they gave the Clinton Foundation 10m and after Boeing paid Bill 200,000 for a speech.


That's not to mention all the bimbo eruptions. That's not to mention the email server. Or stonewalling on releasing her Goldman Sachs transcripts. Or flip flopping on numerous things like Universal Health Care, gay marriage, TPP, etc etc.


---

Elect me and I'll fix Obamacare. I'll overturn Obamas illegal executive action. I'll sort out the Iran deal, I'll bomb the shit out of ISIS and I'll do it for The American people... Not because Goldman Sachs wants me to.

[islandmkl]

33. what you think is the center, in football terms...

is about the 35-yard-line on the RIGHT WING side of the field, which moves your center-left to maybe their 40....

which leaves you at least 20 yards from true CENTER-LEFT...

jebus, what people think is 'center' anymore is a f***ing joke...

we have been triangulated by the 'leaders' of the Democratic Party since 1992 and all that manipulation is finally coming home to roost...

[farleftlib]

40. Great analogy

And Sanders vs. Clinton (with Vegas heavily favoring Team HRC) has turned into a real barnburner. This is an upset for the ages in the making. I love being on the winning team.

[Gothmog]

34. Sanders is not electable

I like Sanders personally but I do not think that he is electable in a general election. There is no way that Sanders could compete in a general election contest where the Kochs are spending $887 million, the RNC candidate may spend another billion dollars and Bloomberg spends another billion dollars. Sanders is too vulnerable to negative ads.

You are entitled to vote for the candidate of your choice and I am entitled to vote for the candidate of my choice

[basselope]

43. Barack Hussein Obama is unelectable.

Last edited Sun Feb 7, 2016, 02:26 PM - Edit history (1)

Who in this country would vote for someone with a name like that!

[ancianita]

35. I'm moving toward this thinking myself, knowing I'm nowhere near representative of the majority

of Americans, even if I'm in the majority who voted for Obama.

[NurseJackie]

37. No worries. Bernie will not be the nominee.

Go, Hillary!

[HooptieWagon]

38. Hillary is electable if only oligarch's votes are counted.

No wonder they appear to be panicking. The only question is if they go scorched earth in their attempt to keep power. Do they respect the votes of the 99%, or do we have to pull the pitchforks and torches out of storage?

[malletgirl02]

39. Sad indictment of our political system

It is a sad indictment of our political system that Bernie Sanders is considered far left.

[djean111]

41. Then you should have no worries, mate!

And no need to post this, as you say, a thousand times.

Oh, wait! Were you seriously expecting Bernie's supporters to switch to supporting Hillary, because you have instructed them to do so? Not gonna happen, sorry. That authoritarian stuff doesn't really work here.

Yeah, she would be ready on day one - she likes war, fracking, the TPP, cluster bombs, increased H-1B visas......that's what many of us are quite afraid of. So thanks, but no sale.

[basselope]

42. Hillary is Center Right and Bernie is Center Left

His policies are hardly "FAR LEFT"

When Trump ran for president in 2000 he had a far more radical left idea when he called for a one time wealth tax.

Ever Clinton people have lost track of where the left and right is and the fringes of it are.

Far left ideas would be a wealth tax. Or maybe this idea going to ballot in Switzerland (http://www.thelocal.ch/20160127/swiss-to-vote-on-guaranteed-income-for-all) of guaranteed income for ALL.

Which of Bernie's ideas are "far left"?

Single Payer? Majority still support it (http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/229959-majority-still-support-single-payer-option-poll-finds)

Public colleges tuition free? Something is country USED TO HAVE. Also it has majority support (http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/poll-most-support-making-college-free/article/2572333)

Raising the social security cap to preserve the system? Another large majority support position (http://americablog.com/2013/02/poll-on-social-security-americans-overwhelmingly-prefer-raising-payroll-taxes-increasing-benefits.html)

Getting rid of citizens united? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/citizens-united-john-roberts_us_560acd0ce4b0af3706de129d Here's a shocker, 78% want that sucker gone!

Wait, breaking up the big banks, that must be the radical leftist idea that is holding him back... Well... http://blogs.wsj.com/moneybeat/2015/01/20/breaking-up-the-big-banks-new-poll-suggest-voters-are-in-favor/

So what is it about Bernie that is FAR LEFT and out of step with the US?

And here is some general reality for you.. if Americans can elect someone with the name Barack Hussein Obama, they are obviously smart enough to see past the "Democratic Socialist" label and vote for the IDEAS.. which a majority support.

[Gothmog]

44. There was a good article VOX that used this reasoning

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=1158154

[Floridanow]

45. President Obama has moved the nation

From center-right to center-left. It is important that voters don't get spooked with far left proposals that have minimal chance for success. Clinton is the best choice to move the country leftward, where the country is better off.

[DesertRat]

46. Agreed

[Vinca]

48. Since we just elected a mixed race president with a Muslim middle name who

half the country thought was born in Kenya . . . TWICE . . . I think the electorate can deal with a Jew from Brooklyn who fled to the sticks of Vermont in his youth and calls himself a socialist.

[UglyGreed]

51. IMO left of center

ain't what it used to be.....

[m-lekktor]

52. Bernie is not FAR LEFT, that you think that speaks volumes about YOU. nt

[Mnpaul]

53. Senator Grimes and Governor Crist endorse this message

Oh wait....

[peacebird]

54. Problem is people do not trust Hillary. Not what she stands for (weathervane) or who she is

She has been caught in lies far too often. And has switched positions far too glibly throughout the campaign.

Have you noticed her favorables always go down the more she speaks? Her last book tour was yet another chance to reintroduce herself to the public and she blew it.

Republicans hate her.

Lots of millenials feel the bern.

Many older progressives do not trust her.

She is unelectable.

[Persondem]

58. Exactly!! K & R nt

[Odin2005]

59. Hillary is right-wing.

Sanders would be Center-Left in Europe.

[AgingAmerican]

61. That line of thinking cost us the congress

Because there is no center in US politics

[highprincipleswork]

62. So tired of alleged realists telling me what is the truth. What you see to me is completely unreal.

One of the great advantages of having a true primary season is seeing which ideas and beliefs and which candidates truly resonate with the people.

We see plenty of evidence that as people really get to know Bernie and what he stands for that we gain plenty of supporters.

Bernie and what he stands for is NOT EVEN "FAR LEFT". His ideas and policies are popular!

[Betty Karlson]

63. It's not about left and right anymore.

It's about status quo (untenable) and reform + solutions (long haul).

Since no viable reforms are suggested from the right (far right in some cases) the reform has to come from the left. And the status quo: its time has come and gone. Hillary's platform belongs in the 20th century.

[thesquanderer]

64. Labels and talking points aside, which specific Sanders proposals are "too left" for the nation?

His actual proposed policies poll very well.

[Live and Learn]

66. No, here is the real problem:

For many, many years, the Republicans fought for the rich while the Democrats fought for the middle class. Nobody much cared about the lower class although Democrats threw them some scraps once in a while.

Then everything shifted right, Republicans started fighting only for the uber rich and Democrats started fighting only for the upper, upper middle class, leaving nobody to fight for 90% of the people.

Now you have a majority of people that aren't satisfied with the current situation and they are demanding change. Hopefully, the revolution (and hopefully it can be done by a political revolution) will result in fixing the inequities that have always been in the system not just in restoring the middle class.

[Matariki]

67. The Religious Right and Tea Party Republicans have been pulling this country to the right

and the Democratic party along with them.

It's time we pull back in the better direction.

[AgingAmerican]

68. You are saying the GOP won't like it

Essentially you are saying the Republicans should control the Democratic message.

Shame on you!