Why the New Atheism is a boys' club?

[Lost-in-FL]

Last edited Fri Dec 16, 2011, 07:50 PM - Edit history (1)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/sep/26/new-atheism-boys-club?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487


Is it that female intellectuals are less rational and contrarian than male secularists? Or just that society prefers lionising men?


...So, is new-style atheism the sausage party that media coverage would suggest? Without getting into an impossible intellectual debate – the kind dealing with pinpointing exactly who was the first to come up with or popularise a particular idea – suffice it to say no, not hardly. Consider: in 2003, the intellectual historian and poet Jennifer Michael Hecht published Doubt: A History: The Great Doubters and Their Legacy of Innovation from Socrates and Jesus to Thomas Jefferson and Emily Dickinson. The book traces famous non-believers throughout history, and advocates atheism on the grounds that these thinkers' skepticism towards religious institutions fostered innovation in philosophy, literature and science. It garnered rave reviews from the Los Angeles Times, which called it "marvelous", and Skeptic magazine, which described it as a "stunning chronicle of unbelievers". In 2004, journalist Susan Jacoby published the extensively praised work Freethinkers: A History of American Secularism, a book that drew on the history of United States – in particular, the significant role secular thinkers have played in reform movements – to make the case that staunchly non-religious thought should be the main driver of public policy.

Yet, though Hecht's and Jacoby's books both came out shortly before Wired bestowed its "New Atheist" designation on the likes of Dawkins and Harris (whose The End of Faith: Religion, Terror, and the Future of Reason was published the same year as Jacoby's Freethinkers), neither woman is invoked in the mainstream media's anointing of atheist thought leaders. Is it that "rationality" – the bedrock of New Atheist doctrine – is historically gendered male, while women are considered more emotional? Is it that their books are too conciliatory toward religion, too well-balanced, too, you know, womanly?

Nope. Both women are accomplished, strong-voiced scholars, and are no more afraid than their male colleagues to call out religion's injustices in a public forum – that is to say, not afraid at all. And as for those whose knee-jerk response to the abundance of critical acclaim accorded male writers over female ones is the classic "Maybe their books just weren't as good/original/ambitious": nope again. Indeed, Hitchens recognised Hecht's influence on the bestselling God Is Not Great…

...In interviews, atheist leaders of all genders floated the theory that women might be less comfortable with the staunchly anti-establishment subtext of identifying as atheist, because they are more likely than men to be brought up to think that social standing, as well as serving their families, is of utmost importance. It's embedded in so many female upbringings to collaborate with peers, to think of others before they think of themselves, to be openminded and listen to everyone fairly. Male upbringings, say these atheist leaders – even in our contemporary, supposedly post-feminist time – allow more leeway to indulge one's individualism, be it in solo tinkering with cars, guitars and chemistry sets, or simply in the pursuit of brooding teen rebellion.
______________________________________________________________________

What say you? It is unfortunate that such crap article comes from a woman, IMHO.

I think this is an attempt at "making up" a story. As a woman, I have not being treated differently for being a woman-atheist myself but just for being woman. I do not see that which she is talking about, that atheism is practically a "boys club", but quite the contrary. I have known more female atheists and even the leadership of my school's atheist/secular organization is all women. If there is ever a "misrepresentation" of women in atheists circles it is due to cultural and not necessarily as a result of atheism. Another thing (and please excuse my ignorance if I am wrong), aren't feminists secularists? Many of the people I know in Women Studies department are either pagan, agnostic or atheists and they express sentiments blaming organized religion for facilitating the condition of women in general.

I also don't buy the fact that Dennett, Dawkins, Harris and Hitchens's books were given "priority" because they were written by men. IMO, they are well known atheist authors (except Harris). Dawkins even smacks religion in his 30 year old book "The Selfish Gene" and have produced many anti-theist videos/documentaries prior to The God Delusion. Also, their books seem to have incendiary titles which create much more interest or rage. What y'all think?

[Warpy]

1. I know more female atheists than male atheists online

but that isn't the case in real life, where the consequences for bucking any sort of social norm are so much harder for women than they are for men. Women need extreme courage to speak out publicly and if you doubt this, look at the way Madalyn Murray O'Hair was treated by people who didn't know her and had no reason to despise her except that she was an outspoken woman atheist.

Patriarchy and its evil twin misogyny are deeply ingrained into this culture and that's the only reason atheism might look like a boys' club to any outsider. Men just have access to better publishers and publicists.

[Lost-in-FL]

5. That's what I was thinking.

I do remember the O'Hair days and her death. You are right.

[Curmudgeoness]

9. You are right to mention O'Hair, who is probably the most familiar name

of an atheist among the general population. She was villified and ridiculed relentlessly. I do not know that it is because she was a woman. I suspect it was because she was responsible for getting the Bible out of public schools, and male or female, that person would have been hated by the theists.

[awoke_in_2003]

23. they attacked her, IMO...

just because she was an atheist. We are not well received in society, especially in the babble belt.

[Warpy]

27. They were especially poisonous because she was a woman

who should have been home baking cookies and teaching her kids to pray next to their beds at night instead of intruding into a man's world and attacking religion.

Again, the consequences are much greater for women. It's the double whammy of being different and threatening to upset the male apple cart added to thought crimes.

[Curmudgeoness]

40. You may have a point. I don't know who it was

who brought the cases to ban prayer from school. But O'Hair is a name most people know. I suppose that being a woman was the distinction that elevated her to most hated.

Too bad that we women are not supposed to think too hard.

[PassingFair]

2. I've been to several atheist meetings and functions...

women have always been well represented.

At least 50%, and the "leaders" are usually women.

[Lost-in-FL]

6. I agree since my situation is similar

The group at my school seem to be predominantly women. But then again, it could be a question of college demographics showing that there are more women than men in a particular college.

[seabeyond]

3. i pulled fromt he article that it is just more misogyny even in the atheist realm

not that it has anything to do with atheism itself, more to do with a world of sexism.

[Lost-in-FL]

7. The gifts of patriarchy. nt

[seabeyond]

10. yes. nt

[iris27]

4. Where is this from? I'm curious to read the whole article.

From what I can see here, I'd agree that it's crap. If she wanted to write an article critiquing the sexism of "New Atheism", all she'd have to do is look at the personal views of Dawkins and Hitchens. No need for the wild speculation that begins the excerpt.

Both of the women-authored books she mentions are more of a "history of non-belief" than a systematic takedown of arguments for theism. As you say, "The God Delusion" is really what vaulted Dawkins to the front of the "movement", so to speak. And "God Is Not Great" is really the work that popularized Hitchens. Histories are less controversial, harder to find offensive.

I agree with you that feminism is generally down on organized religion, for the simple fact that organized religion is largely down on women. Most self-identified feminists who haven't decided to turn a blind eye to the faith they grew up in (which many do), are either without religion or into some sort of vague paganistic Mother Earth/Gaia/Goddess sort of spirituality.

Also, while author is arguing that women are - what? - more conciliatory? - less anti-establishment?...she is overlooking probably the single most confrontational public atheist out there - Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Maybe it's because Ali's main target is Islam instead of Christianity, I don't know. But I do know that you'll never see Dawkins publicly calling Christianity "a destructive, nihilistic cult of death (that) legitimates murder." She does NOT hold back!

[Lost-in-FL]

8. My bad!! Can't believe I forgot the link! It is from The Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2011/sep/26/new-atheism-boys-club?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

You are completely right about Ayaan Hirsi Ali. Funny that you say this cause her name is not even mentioned in the article and she could even be considered part of the "boys club" as her name comes usually next to Dawkins or Hitchens.

[laconicsax]

11. "New atheism" is a media invention, not an actual movement.

It's so-called leaders are simply the four best-selling authors of the time period. The observations of the OP are the result of societal sexism and not a function of atheism.

[iris27]

12. Huh - actually looking at the article as a whole, it says exactly that.

"Women are God-fearing and don't challenge institutions. Men, on the other hand, are skeptical and rational, and go out of their way to publicly call bullshit on faith and religion – which is why today's well-known secular thinkers, especially in the ranks of the New Atheism movement, are all male.

These statements should sound ridiculous because, of course, they are. From Madalyn Murray O'Hair, the founder of American Atheists, whose 1963 US supreme court lawsuit brought an end to prayer in public schools, to Sergeant Kathleen Johnson, who started an organisation for atheists in the United States military, to Debbie Goddard, founder of African Americans for Humanism, countless women have worked as successful atheist activists. They've penned books, run organisations and advocated on behalf of religiously repressed citizens. But you might not guess that from the popular portrayal and perception of atheism in America, which overwhelmingly treats the contemporary class of non-God-fearing freethinkers (also known as secularists, skeptics and nonbelievers) as a contentious, showboating boys' club."

It really looks to be mostly a critique of the media coverage surrounding these authors that, as she writes, "combined to create the 'New Atheist' meme".

[laconicsax]

13. I guess my knee jerked.

I'm really used to seeing the, "look at how sexist new atheism is" article. The headline fits that description so I immediately thought, "ugh, here we go again."

[Lost-in-FL]

15. Similar articles are posted usually in the "R/T"

That is why I posted it here but with a different intention than that of the R/T; they use it to paint us all as bigots.

[laconicsax]

18. The irony of that is off the charts.

Combine the irony of adherents of patriarchal religions, some which dogmatically regard women as 2nd-class citizens with the irony of people broad-brushing all atheists as bigots, and my irony meter explodes

[iris27]

21. No, I had the same reaction as you did at first. The article is kind of clumsily written, and it's

not clear at first what the author is trying to say.

[MarkCharles]

16. Some of my favorite atheists are women.

I think I posted a couple of videos from one of my favorite women, the woman from Romania.

She can handle herself and has a sailor's vocabulary when it comes to talking about religious folks.

[Lost-in-FL]

17. Lol!

Someone posted the video a few days ago. Too long IMO but she got her point across well.

[MarkCharles]

19. That "someone" was ME!

Yes, she does go on and on, but some of us guys love to watch a woman who can talk and go on with logic.

She also has a sense of humor.

Here's an example of her more humorous side. Looks like she watches some American TV, including the Miss USA pageant and Bill O'Reilly. Don't worry, it's short and sweet.

Here's how she explains this one:

"Response to "Miss USA 2011 - 51 Delegates Interview (Q2 - Evolution taught in school)" - watch and cry :

Personal videos on my blog :http://cristinarad.blogspot.com/

Sorry for the blurry camera "


So, if we ever wonder why women are not taken seriously sometimes, just look at the VERY RELIGIOUS Miss USA contestants and their positions on evolution.

[redqueen]

28. I doubt that the reason women aren't taken seriously is because of Miss USA contestants. (nt)

[Odin2005]

20. I think women Atheists are a lot more reluctant to come out.

Also, there is a lot of pseudo-feminist woo about how "scientism" and "materialism" is patriarchal and ignores some supernatural power women are supposed to have because of misogyny.

[Boston_Chemist]

26. Richard Dawkins had some scathing remarks to say about Women's Studies departments.

Some Humanities departments are riddled with complete and utter nonsense.

[laconicsax]

36. Your point is?

Are you saying that women's studies is nonsense, or something else?

[iris27]

41. He's got a hidden post in this thread.

Unless the code is still flawed, he won't be able to respond except by PM.

[laconicsax]

42. I had forgotten about that feature!

Oh well.

[stuntcat]

22. I know a few women who are atheists and just don't discuss it much

Last edited Fri Dec 16, 2011, 11:29 PM - Edit history (1)

I on the other hand think religion is helping killing my planet so I can get obnoxious about it.

Saw someone say earlier that with Hitchens's death now all us atheists have to get a little louder to make up for the lost voice! I'm up for that.

[Quartermass]

24. If women can have their own clubs, why can't men?

If you do a Google, you'll find out that women have a lot of clubs and stuff that are for women only.

So that tells me that some women just can't stand it when men keep their own company.

But if it's okay for women to keep their own company then it should be okay for men to keep their own company. Anything else is a double standard.

[iris27]

32. There's a big difference between a ladies' quilting bee and the popular

face of atheism today. Are you suggesting that women need to start their own, separate atheist "movement"?

[laconicsax]

37. Atheism isn't a boys club.

Women have every right to be atheists and not feel excluded. There's no reason why women should start their own atheist groups, especially since they're already active in the existing ones.

[EvolveOrConvolve]

38. I think you're being deliberately obtuse

Every day life is a "boy's club" by virtue of the fact that men control most everything. Saying that it's appropriate that men should have their own clubs is like saying that a whites-only club is okay because by golly the black folks have one.

[laconicsax]

39. +1

[redqueen]

29. Unlike men?

Seriously...

[Boston_Chemist]

30. Uh?

Care to explain your tangent?

[redqueen]

35. Not really, no. (nt)

[iris27]

31. Wow, that's some over-the-top sexism right there.

[Boston_Chemist]

33. So women cannot be thusly?

Seriously, do you actually believe that people, as a class, are pure and innocent?

[iris27]

34. Saying "women", instead of "some women" is a broad-brush bigoted attack. n/t