Why doesn't God talk to us? -- with updated post

[Heddi]

Last edited Wed Jan 8, 2014, 07:21 PM - Edit history (1)

I know I've shared this before, but there have been times in my life when I just wanted to believe SO bad. To have that comfort that believers assured me I would have that went beyond human 'comfort' or 'support' or whatever.

I've prayed. I've been on my knees, at the end of my rope, begging for something, anything.

i got nothing.

Never.

Not when I was young, not when I was older.
Not when I was expecting it. Not when I needed it the most.

No whispers of "i'm here". No "you're not alone". No "put down the razor".

No visions. No miracles. No faces in toast.

No extra strength. No feelings of solace. No knowing that I wasn't alone.

Why not us? If we're so deluded, if we're so closed minded...why when I was the most open minded, when I needed that guidence, that strength, that love, that comfort....why was I left in the cold?


I never asked for much. Not for a winning football game. Not for a date to the prom. Just for help. Just for peace in my head. to know that there was SOMEONE...something out there that gave a shit, because where i was standing no one did, not even myself.

I waited. I was patient.

I got a big fat silent "fuck you"

Very disappointing.

I got over my nonsense bad times, though. Never got over the silence on the other end of the line. You'd think an all-knowing being would understand that most 10 year olds shouldn't be contemplating suicide. That most live-in boyfriends dont' repeatedly finger-bang (and worse) the 12 year old daughters of their girlfriends. That the 12 year old shouldn't sit in the cold outside for 8 hours (for years) because she's afraid to be in the house alone until her mom gets home. That most moms would believe their kids when they tell them that their boyfriends are fingerbanging them (and worse). That they woudln't let said boyfriend continue to live with them and condinue to to torture your kid. ANd other kids.

He should have known that I wasn't like most kids. That my life wasn't like most kids.

fuck that shit.

[intaglio]

1. Tears and virtual hugs from me

I hope you can find or have found someone you can trust to hug you in real life, we all need that. Take care because some humans at least care for you.

[Heddi]

2. Thanks for that. I did eventually realize that people weren't all sociopaths

I just wish I could have had some guidance when I was too young to have figured it out on my own and was left with my proverbial dick blowing in the proverbial wind

[Tobin S.]

3. I understand, Heddi

I come from difficult circumstances, too, although I am a male. I've never had a prayer answered, either. I suppose that's my fault... you know how it is. God works in mysterious ways.

I was talking with my wife this evening. The last time I did something like praying was when she had a miscarriage a year and a half ago. But that's not what we were talking about. We were talking about old times when we were children, and our memories about TV shows back then and watching them with our families. It put me in a melancholy mood because I quickly realized how few happy memories I have from back then. I'm 41.

Maybe the next half of my life will start out better. My wife wants to help me create more happy memories. I love her for it. She thinks it's sad that thinking about my past makes me feel this way. It's easier for me to be happy now, in the present and looking forward. I really don't need any of that religion stuff. I'm in control now and my destiny is up to me.

[Warpy]

4. Why does god never talk to the SANE?

I was a frequent flyer on LSD back in the 60s and if there was a god, surely he'd have the decency to present himself when I was peaking on that stuff. None ever did.

There I was, temporarily insane, the perfect person for a god to speak to. Didn't happen.

Doesn't exist.

However, if we lose Pascal's Wager and he pops up after we die, my main question will be to ask why he found it so necessary to hide. And that "faith" rubbish aint gonna fly.

[Mr.Bill]

5. Cool Hand Luke

[Curmudgeoness]

6. God just didn't love you.

I'm so sorry that you had such a rotten childhood. It breaks my heart that any child should have to live through abuses of any kind.

The obvious point is that God is not there. That is what I have concluded, and nothing in my life has proved me wrong. I cannot understand how so many people just believe, even in the absence of any evidence at all. Nothing. Nada.

If he occasionally would do some of those really cool things that he did in the Old Testament, like talking from a burning bush that did not get hurt by the flames, or saving people like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego from burning in a furnace. We get some TV evangelical preacher who tells us that God talked to him and told him to ask people for money. God has just lost his touch.

[Warren Stupidity]

7. Yahweh stopped the whole burning bush thing 2500-3000 years ago.

There is one branch of Christian theology that holds that their deity literally died through the agency of Jesus.

What seems clear is that, outside of charlatans, hucksters and lunatics, god isn't speaking to anyone these days. If you are a believer you somehow have to square that reality with the endless stories of physically present deities in ancient holy books. Why did god go silent? If you are an atheist the reasons for the silence are obvious.

[defacto7]

8. Verily verily I say unto you...

Rejoice and be exceedingly glad....

that you're not one of the sheep that has to force themselves to believe something that doesn't exist and that you have the insight and intelligence to be able to live a life free of pathological lies to thyself.

I'm so sorry for your terrible experiences. It happens to believers and non-believers alike but when your brought up to have faith in some non-existent deity who is supposed to love you more than anything else and protect you no less just to find an empty void staring you down, it's makes you loose trust in humanity let alone a god. The real saving grace though is rising above it to become part of the real world and to find that peace that does not pass all understanding. Real peace is understanding the value of human life and the earth and our true place in the universe.

[Locut0s]

10. One of the greatest evils of religion is that...

One of the greatest evils of religion is that it instils in its believers a belief that all things happen for a purpose. That everything is part of some grand design.

All one has to do is take a look at the horrendous atrocities that are visited upon people daily to realize how horrible this idea is. To give someone the idea that the death of their parents at the hands of a murderer, or the random death of a loved one in an accident, or their loved ones cancer diagnosis, that these things all had a purpose, is such a repugnant idea that it should make one sick. But of course if you have been raised since birth to believe this way it's difficult to see any other way. And once you DO start thinking this way, it makes it so much easier to have the wool pulled over your eyes in other ways.

[Locut0s]

9. Psst. I'll tell you a secret...

Those believers. They don't have as much comfort and support as they want you to believe they do. In fact many of them are living in eternal fear and worry. Many of them continue to believe only because they have now invested so much in it that it looks easier to continue than to challenge their ideas.

The whole point of Christianity is that you have to believe, in spite of there being zero proof and the fact that you will never get any. Sorry the human brain didn't evolve to be able to handle that kind of belief doubt and stress free for the rest of your life. Those who believe, struggle with doubt all the time. In fact the more intelligent ones will openly tell you they do and that to them it's a natural part of being religious. Wonderful god you have there.

I'm very sorry to hear what you had to go through, there are some truly sick people out there. And yes the fact that bad shit happens to good people and good shit happens to bad people, regardless of their religious beliefs, is one of the strongest arguments against religion.

[JNelson6563]

11. Aw Heddi!

What a wretched thing for a child to endure! I am so very glad you made it through! Can't tell you how much I appreciate your posts, especially your wit!

You are an inspiration.

Julie

[PassingFair]

12. I can't believe I get to post a picture of one of my favorite book AGAIN!

This book has some VERY interesting ideas about why gawd doesn't talk to us,
and why he USED to.....

[Bradical79]

14. sci-fi recommendation: WWW trilogy

I read the first book in the WWW trilogy, "WWW: Wake" by Robert J. Sawyer awhile back, which if I remember correctly, takes the premise of that book and applies it to an emergent AI. It's a pretty good read, though slower paced and a bit light on the science side of things. I think the chapters portraying the emergence of this consciousness are particularly well written and absorbing.

[PassingFair]

16. I'll check into it....

Thanks!

[FiveGoodMen]

20. Yep. That book had interesting ideas.

I don't know whether anyone has followed up on them since.

[Bradical79]

13. Simple conclusion that I assume you've reached since you're here

is that there's no deity to hear you. In that sense it can be a bit liberating to be a non-believer. I think it's easier to believe an all powerful deity doesn't exist rather than that deity is simply playing favorites and you didn't make the list. Why some of us as children were put into terrible situations or given deliberate devastating disadvantages in our biology is something religion has failed to answer satisfactorily. I've asked similar questions as I had extreme depression and anxiety as a child and into adulthood which religion failed to address fully, though in my case it's probably through nothing more than an accident of brain chemistry. There were a couple traumatic experiences in my life that probably worsened the situation, but overall I had a very attentive and loving family compared to many.

Of course from a pure logical standpoint it is impossible to say an all powerful being doesn't exist as such a hypothetical being does not have to conform to any physical laws, human ethics, and could take any form hence the Pastifarians being as legitimate a religion as any other.

[AtheistCrusader]

15. I know people that claim that god speaks to them.

I tried to understand. I tried to listen. possibilities:

1. No transmitter on the other end.
2. I don't receive that frequency.
3. God has nothing to say to me.


I go with option 1, and that means, I gotta do everything myself. That includes finding meaning, for myself, of importance to myself, on my own. Not to mention protecting myself.

Your own life stands as proof, if under very horrible circumstances. Not only did god not speak to you, but he didn't speak to any of his supposed loyal minions that claim to hear his voice, and tell one, just ONE of them, to come help you.

It's not malice. Nothingness cannot bear malice toward anyone.


I am very sorry for what you went through, in silence, unaided. I hope that the perpetrator has since been held to account, not just as justice to you, but to also prevent it happening again.

[Heddi]

17. I appreciate everyone's input in the thread...some more thoughts

I never intended to just leave the thread...I had a sick & busy week & weekend, lots of snow and bullshit, so sorry for posting and disappearing.

Secondly, I really appreciate all the great comments y'all left. I know I put some kind of TMI stuff in the OP, and believe it or not, it's not so that I can get the 'oh you poor thing' responses (as one half of an infamous boat-bound posting couple accused me of a few years ago in a PM. Ahem.) I mean, It's not "oh poor me" because yeah, shit happens, and life is shit, and shitty things happen. I"m better now. Not over it...but dealt with it. I'm in a good spot in life, my life is awesome and couldn't possibly be better unless I won the lotto, and only because then I'd be able to finally help my family and friends financially.

anyways.

The point that was going through my head when I made my post that maybe I didn't get translated so well was that I'm not the only person with a shitty childhood. In fact, I'd say the fact that I'm in the state of life I'm in now means I had things pretty fucking good compared to some: I'm not dead, didn't get knocked up, didn't run away, didn't become an addict and all the other horrible things that statistically happen to children who suffer through childhood sexual abuse.

What I mean is that the OH SO BLESSED ONES speak so freely about the times when they were down, you know, someone talked bad about them at work. Or maybe their friend was PO'd about something. And they just prayed and Voila! God spoketh to them.

Like all they had to do was ask. And they got this clear answer on life and how to live it, no questions asked, no ambiguity. Go forth and be you!

Or they are at the rock bottom. No one is there. THey just need a helping hand. They ask for it and voila! THey get it. This great big helping hand of GOd. Right there. Just when they needed it. No questions asked. Just be sorry for the bad shit you did and try to be better.

I've seen several posters here on our fabulous DU, in the religion and other forums, openly talk about hearing God talk to them, feeling the hand of god, getting strength from god, getting wisdom from god. No "kind of had this feeling" but totally 100% No Shit god came to them and basically gave them everything but the answers to Tuesday's geometry quiz.

Are they lying? Like really flat out, never happened, lying through their fucking teeth lying? I know I'm lying but it doesn't matter I'm going to lie for no fucking reason lying?

Are they wrong? Thought it was god but it was really an infomercial in the other room?

Are they lying but beleive their own lies (which I think is different from number one, although still lying)?

I guess I don't get it. WHY THEM? What made them so fucking special? Ask them, and you get the "oh well God knew I needed someone.." or some other tripe. Ask "why not me" and "GOd answers all prayers, sometimes the answer is no" bullshit. Or "who knows" when I think they're thinking "well you weren't really a believer anywys. You weren't good enough anyways. You weren't as bad off as I was. You weren't as ____ as me anyways"


And of course *I* know that GOd didn't speak to me because I believe God is non existent. I figured that out long ago, and the literal dial-tone at the end of the line was one of the many chits in the "why I don't believe in God" column.

The WHY do people say it. I kind of get the whole "go on faith" argument. I don't GET it get it but I can sort of see that people could put faith in things without explaination or without proof. Okay, it's bullshit, but it keeps you cozy at night. Whatever.

But why lie? Why say "God spoke to me as clear as day" if it didn't happen?

what's there to gain?

[uriel1972]

18. Self-delusion...

Maybe to believe they ARE a unique and special snowflake. Reinforcement of what they already believe. I don't know.
I was an untreated schizo when I believed, now I'm treated I'm a hardcore atheist, but there may be many shades in-between for other people.

[trotsky]

19. Confirmation bias.

We all know how emotionally invested people become in their religious beliefs. Just look at how they react to simple questioning about them!

I think that most people are smart, though. And therefore I think most believers realize just how precarious their beliefs are - and the successful religions are the ones that are able to take this wavering and make it a strength. "God is testing you" or "Faith will see you through" or whatever.

This gets internalized, and so ANY positive event gets spun as being the result of trusting god, of having faith, of being rewarded for one's beliefs. Train a hamster is to push a button for food - and even if it only gets a pellet once every 50 tries, and even if you just randomly drop that pellet in independently of the button push, it's gonna keep on pushing it.

[mr blur]

21. The need to delude themselves that they're 'special', and

because no-one can prove that they didn't have a real conversation with Jebus or one of his dads. You know that if you bother to discuss it with them sooner or later they'll get you with the old "You can't prove that god doesn't exist!"

[onager]

22. Bwa-ha-ha...!

Certainly not laughing at your story, but at this part you managed to sneak in...

...as one half of an infamous boat-bound posting couple accused me of a few years ago in a PM.



Yeah, I love it when somebody brags about being "off the grid" yet spends all day posting on the Internet.

As for Gawd listening...I just spent the Xmas holidays in the buckle on the Bible belt, where most people go to church and claim a direct personal hotline to Gawd/Jesus. So theoretically it should be a little paradise.

My mother works in a pre-school there. Her desk drawer is crammed full of Restraining Orders against parents who are not allowed to see their kids. Some of these relate to drugs, others are for physical and/or sexual abuse.

So as usual, the believers perception is a long way from reality. Even if most of them refuse to see the reality.

[Aquavit]

23. He does, but Haldol can help fix that n/t