Are You Envious Of Believers?

[Quartermass]

So last night I was listening to an old Art Bell radio show on cassette with Father Malachi Martin and they wanted to talk with atheists to find out why they called themselves atheists.

One caller stood out to me because he stated that he was envious of those who did have faith, but he never stated why.

I've never really been envious of them.

So, it's something I've been curious about. Have any of you felt envious of people who do have faith in God? If so, why would you be envious of these people?

[Boston_Chemist]

1. Perhaps because ignorance is bliss.

Atheism is tough.

[MarkCharles]

2. There's lots of free food at those church suppers!

Then there's the chance to sit with a bunch of people once a week and call them all your "friends".

Then there's the imaginary "friend" that is always with you! You don't have to give up that idea just because the idea of a REAL Santa Claus disappears at age 7!

[yortsed snacilbuper]

8. The catholic church makes good fish sandwiches,

but the methodists have the best ice cream strawberry shortcake!

[Kolesar]

10. I have too much pride to cadge a meal

Yes. I know you were joking, but...

[DissedByBush]

3. It would make things easier

I don't have the option of thinking "God will take care of me" in hard times.

I have to deal with those hard times. It's more difficult, but then that's reality. It must be nice to be able to sail through like that.

But drug users often do their thing so they don't have to deal with reality either, but that doesn't mean I want to do drugs.

[AlbertCat]

12. but that doesn't mean I want to do drugs.

Are you kidding? Have you tried Quaaludes????

[DissedByBush]

22. I pretty much hate all drugs

Docs are irritated by me because I refuse common medication unless it's absolutely necessary. Especially painkillers, can't stand them.

Alcohol and caffeine are my two drugs, and alcohol only in small amounts.

Anything else that alters mood, thinking or perception scares the hell out of me.

Hey, maybe that's why I don't go for the opiate of the masses.

[AlbertCat]

27. I pretty much hate all drugs

I was joking, y'know.

But I never would have survived all boy jock prep school back in the early 70's without pot... what with being beaten up for being gay every day and the 24/7 humiliation even from teachers. Pot and classical music kept me sane.... well relatively sane...

[AlbertCat]

13. I don't have the option of thinking "God will take care of me" in hard times.

And therefore making those like us who don't believe in magical solutions to do the hard work and get everyone thru... even the religious.

Those people owe us!

[roody]

4. They have instant community when they go to a church.

I feel the same way at a protest. I am with my people.

[Lisa0825]

5. The only thing I really miss about when I did believe, is thinking someday I would see my mom again.

It has been over 10 years and I still miss her so much.

And it may sound corny, but the same for my pets who have passed. I hoped there was a place for them too.

[Neoma]

6. No...

Most people who are religious sound too desperate for dependence on someone. And depending on the church, they seem to get really hateful towards a lot of people who don't deserve such hate. I wouldn't want to become that type of person.

[dmallind]

7. Personally no, but I recognize Christian privilege has advantages obviously

Far fewer people assume they are untrustworthy, criminal (ironic given prison stats), even "unamerican" than do so about me. They face no fear of being fired for their opinion on religion (the plethora of "fired for being a Christian" stories always reveal some malfeasance or dereliction on further investigation). They are not forced to either lie or get into arguments when asked about their church - in many areas of the country the second question a newly introduced stranger usually asks after work role.

But would I buy those advantages at the price of accepting a slightly more adult Santa myth as the ultimate meaning of the universe? Nope. Not even think about it.

If the theocrats get their way and religiosity becomes universally necessary for a quiet life, employment security and basic freedoms, then I'll bullshit all they want and gibber for Jesus with the best of them - never seen any point in being a martyr for the lack of a god. It will be an act though, not a sign of desire to be like that.

[Kolesar]

11. I like to use Christian metaphors to shame Christians

Is that any way to treat God's creation?

[lindysalsagal]

29. Me, too! God brought us Obama!

I skewered a GOP fundie with that one last week!

[Kolesar]

31. Allah akbar!

Oops. We are getting into a "mixed message" here.

[mr blur]

9. No - I feel they're the ones who are missing out on life. (nt)

[AlbertCat]

14. No - I feel they're the ones who are missing out on life.

I agree...

Like the amazing perfect rainbow we had after the storms that passed thru today. Not only was I astounded and mesmerized by its awesome beauty... I actually knew what it was!

[EvolveOrConvolve]

15. I'm not envious at all

So... Why the hell are you listening to Art Bell? Bigger question: where the hell did you get a cassette tape player?

[Quartermass]

19. I like that old show, it's entertaining stuff, even if I don't believe.

And it's an old cassette player I've had for more than fifteen years now, but they still sell them. I'm sure if you did a google you'd find them on sale somewhere.

And also it's interesting to me to compare things between what I knew then and what I know now.

[laconicsax]

16. Why on Earth would I envy someone's faith?

[RebelOne]

17. Hell, no. n/t

[Curmudgeoness]

18. I have always said that it is harder to be an atheist

than to be a person of faith, so I suppose I do envy them their delusions.

It would be nice to have god's shoulder to lean on when you need it. It sounds wonderful to be reunited in death with your loved ones. It would feel good to think that I would continue on after death. Prayer seems to calm and help people feel better.

And of course, I wish I could believe there was a hell for all the pretend Christians who are sinning their asses off while professing their faith.

[progressoid]

25. Yes

Many years ago I remember telling my wife how much easier it would be if I had that crutch. Plus there is that sense of community that I can only find online for now.

[qazplm]

46. delusion is a pejorative word

I'd say comfort. It would be nice to be comforted by the idea that death isn't the end of your existence. The very idea is pretty darn scary to me. I wish they were right, but they probably aren't. But still, yes, I do envy that they spend less or even no time worrying about this fact, while I do think about it from time to time, and it's a fairly unappealing outcome that could be moments or decades away but ever approaching.

sounds trite and silly, but I remember a line from Scrubs about a guy about to die in a few hours who says something to the effect of I can't wrap my head around the idea that I'm here one moment and then the next, I'm gone. I don't buy folks who say that doesn't bother them at all.

[AlbertCat]

47. they spend less or even no time worrying about this fact,

That they're gonna die????

Are you kidding? It's the whole show! They're worried about nothing else. Well, Abrahamic religions are anyway.

Death is not scary... because it's oblivion. No judgments, rewards or punishments.

It's DYING that's scary, because it so often involves much unpleasantness. And you do that while you are still alive.

[Curmudgeoness]

50. I think that the premise was

that they do not worry about their end of existence. Yes, they do worry about dying---although I am not sure why. If I thought that paradise was waiting for me, but I had to die to get there, I would be excited about the idea of dying.

And I am with you about the "dying" being the scary part....especially if it is a long and drawn out ordeal. That is my biggest fear, that I will suffer greatly before it is over.

[Wistful Vista]

55. The TRVE BELIEVERS are sure there's a heaven and they'll be there but they do everything they

can to avoid going. I've always found that rather amusing.

[Curmudgeoness]

51. Comfort is a good term for it.

And there is also the comfort in thinking that you will be reunited with all your loved ones. I know many people who are true believers and they do find a comfort in these thoughts that I cannot grasp.

As we get older, and closer to a time when we know we will surely die, I think that it gets easier to comprehend that there is a moment when you are just gone. I suppose you get tired of the rat race, sick of all the aches and pains, and know that life is finite. It is death of the young who bother because I don't think they had the opportunity to get to that point.

[kdmorris]

20. I am not really envious of them

But, it's been hard to find the same sort of atmosphere as church is to them. We've tried to find others that we can hang out with (esp when our daughters were young), but there just didn't seem to be a whole group of non-believers that become your family through thick and thin.

[Armin-A]

21. truth vs convenience

i choose truth, celebrate the solstice or the new year to get together with family

[Arugula Latte]

23. Only in that no matter what shitty thing happened, you could find a way to justify it as God's Will

Must be nice to have such a mind-numbing opiate at your disposal during bad times.

[Kalidurga]

24. If I were envious all I would have had to do was keep going to church...

and keep pretending to believe even though I knew deep down that religion especially the Abrahamic ones are a bunch of bs.

I outgrew religion and faith and I am glad I did.

[AlbertCat]

28. I knew deep down that religion especially the Abrahamic ones are a bunch of bs

Of course a huge % of church goers are just that.

But don't tell anybody!

[BiggJawn]

26. Envy somebody's delusion?

Sorry, but that's what a belief in a old whiskered Sky Wizard is when you get down to it.

Make more sense to envy a kid's belief in Sandy Claws.

[lindysalsagal]

30. A good gospel group makes me want to be a believer,

until about an hour after they stop singing! But when they're in full bellow, I want to be one of them so bad!

But I know they have lots of suspended problems when they come down off the risers....

[MrModerate]

32. No. Never. Religious belief creeps me out. n/t

[Deep13]

33. Not even a little. nt

[pink-o]

34. I find not wasting my time worrying about my "divine purpose" to be extremely liberating!

It means I can live, love, be happy, enjoy each wonderful day, and try to me at my best, not because I'm worried some Sky Daddy is gonna punish me if I don't, but because Life is freakin' AWESOME and I want to live it to its fullest. When I lost my mom 5 years ago (she was also an Atheist) it comforted me to know that life is cyclic, it's transitory, and I have all my love and great memories of her living on in my heart. I don't need to know she's sitting on the right hand of Jesus and waiting for me to join her. We had many great years as Mother/Daughter, then as good friends, and so it goes. Nothing lasts forever, just because we want it to.

I find that Believers are frightened of their insignificance, so they take comfort in being the Chosen Species, the ones made in God's image, the ones with a soul and a higher purpose. I like being humble and just a part of the greater whole that is life and the universe. I don't have to feel a Manifest Destiny or a Specialness in the eyes of a Creator. And I think being an Atheist means you have a lot more ability to understand nuance: we're not negating our feelings of love and joy and sadness. We just don't believe they come from a divine source, so they're ours to do with whatever we wish.

That said, someone told me recently that he'd heard this story: When you die and ascend into Heaven, every dog and every cat you've ever been a guardian to will be waiting for you there. THAT'S the only time I envied Believers: I'd love to see my old Irish Setter and Calico baby again!! But it's a nice fantasy--and plenty of animals are waiting for us in the shelters. Best way to honor those who've died, I think!

[PassingFair]

40. Will I still have to pick up their poop?

Cause it's OFF if I have to deal with the collective poop of all the
animals I've lived with.

[pink-o]

42. I'm sure there's a believer clause that there's no S**t in heaven.

so you're in luck

[marginlized]

35. No, are you kidding? n/t

[cleanhippie]

36. Yes, I am envious of all the good that religion is doing, especially in the OWS movement.

Apparently, without "good" religion, OWS would be just a distant memory by now. Or so I'm told.

[MarkCharles]

37. You have been given that "other way of knowing"...

all about the OWS movement being all inspired by religion.

Blessings to you! LOL

[wyldwolf]

38. Yes

It's a beautiful thought that I'll one day see my late parents and friends again - even though I don't believe I will.

[PassingFair]

39. I see them already, in my dreams.

I don't believe they will be "made flesh", and I don't
know if I'd even want them to.

[and-justice-for-all]

41. Never, self-endused delusion is not my thing...nt

[Warpy]

43. I'd miss the community if I weren't such an introvert

There's also a certain amount of comfort in being one of a majority, you don't have to worry about stepping on the toes of 80% or so of your fellow citizens. Or maybe that's just laziness.

Then there's the fact that the compartmentalized BS makes you feel completely safe no matter what's happening to you and having it compartmentalized away from the everyday stuff allows you to function like a reasonable human being.

[iris27]

44. Not envious, but there are things I miss.

Just like the idea of Santa was easy and "magical" when I was a child, and I can look back at that and almost sort of miss it in a way, while still wishing my parents hadn't thought it fun to lie to me for several years.

I like to sing, but good choral music is so much more annoying now that I don't agree with most of the lyrics. Same with Christmas carols.

Church was instant community (though it did have its own cliques and other social BS)...but still, as an introvert it was helpful to see the same people every week and have them ostensibly care about you as "family in Christ".

It was easier, when someone died or when life was hard, to think I'd see them again in heaven, or that "God has a plan". It was easier to know that my life's purpose was to live as a good Christian example and help save as many people as possible...than to face the idea that I am totally responsible for creating whatever meaning I hope my life will have.

But I will take hard truths any day over the easy comfort of shutting off my brain.

[Brainstormy]

45. the idea of heaven wasn't hard to give up, but

I kinda miss the notion of hell. There were people I liked to imagine going there someday.
On a serious note, the communal aspect of the church is hard to replace.

[montanto]

48. At times I am a little envious of certain aspects of faith.

I have thought about this quite a bit. I have thought about many things quite a bit. I sometimes wish I didn't have to think about everything all the time. At moments like that I envy people of faith, because, from what I have seen, it pretty much dispenses with all that thinking.

[lazarus]

49. we argued about something similar back in college

in the early 80s. Is it better to be dumb and happy or smart and unhappy?

Of course, we hadn't learned about false choices yet. I've found it's perfectly easy to be smart and happy, and to be an atheist and miss nothing about the world of magical thinking.

[greyl]

52. OP has left the building, fyi.

But not too late for me to answer "no."

[laconicsax]

53. Yeah, he went down in a blaze of misogyny.

Not a moment too soon, too.

[progressoid]

56. I miss the tombstone.

BRING BACK THE TOMBSTONE ADMINS!!11!

[deacon_sephiroth]

54. When I was very young...

and very much WANTED to be a believer just because everyone else was, I envied them. The ability to believe the "faith" they were so proud of, was obviously missing in me. I didn't "get it" I thought, somehow something was wrong with me. After all, the adults all seemed to get it, and surely I wasn't more intelligent than all the adults.....

Well I'm an adult now, and I no longer envy any of them, I pity them, and in many cases find them contemptable. It turns out I WAS smarter than the grown ups, and things haven't changed much.

[Alexande1304]

57. Am I Envious of believers?

Well...sometimes

[awoke_in_2003]

58. No...

it may be comforting to have the belief that, when you die, you are going to have a peaceful afterlife- but at what cost? A lifetime of subservience to a spiteful, vengeful deity that can never be pleased. I will enjoy the one life I KNOW we have, thank you very much.

[GliderGuider]

59. No. All beliefs are illusions.

Lack of belief is a prerequisite for connecting directly with one's experience without filtering it through layers of preconception.

This applies to everything from the existence of gods to the reality of the external world and one's own self.