The bishops are not the sole authority on doctrine.

[olegramps]

The Catholic Church is composed of all its members. I would like to remind the bishops that during the truly orthodox days of the church the bishops were elected by the membership. As the years passed the clergy consolidated their power over the church and the laity were disenfranchised of any voice in the formation of doctrine. This evolution also applies to the power that was consolidated in the papacy. What has evolved in the most recent of years in response to Vatican II that would have expanded the both laity's voice in the church and also the bishops through the principle of First Among Equals was totally rejected by both Paul VI in regard to celibacy and birth control who along with ultra-traditionalists totally ignored the principle of shared responsibility of the formation of doctrine and under the cloak of secrecy and delusion of their superiority attempted to impose their will on the church membership. It is without question that both of these attempts to silence informed opposition has been an unmitigated disaster.

What has evolved from their brazen attempt at impose their will on the entirety of the membership, both the clergy and laity has been that the hierarchy and for that matter also the lower clergy has been that their ranks have increase been filled by only those who accept the most stringent acceptance of the church's so-called doctrines on celibacy, marriage, male only priesthood and the entire realm of humane sexuality that border of the asinine. I have little doubt that entirety of the major issues that plague the modern church can be attributed to the imposition of celibacy on priesthood. I would like to remind our celibate that the very first commandment of God was that children were to cut their ties to the parents and become one flesh with the mates. This such an establish principle that has been held by Jews to be a supreme responsibility of parents. "That is why man leaves his father and mother and is united with his wife, and they become one." Gn 2.24 This teaching is reinforced in regard as to those who would lead the church in Paul's First Letter to Timothy. Under the requirements he stated: "A church leader must be without fault; he must have only one wife...he must be able to manage his own family well and make his children obey him with all respect. For if a man does not know how to manage his family, how can he take care of the church of God." 1 Ti 3.2, 4-5. AS we are aware that there was absolutely no requirement of celibacy until the those such as Augustine, Jerome and their band of heretics began a campaign to condemn marital relations as little more than unbridled lust. As a consequence, I regard that the taking of a vow to never marry as without question to be heretical. I am not saying that very one should marry, but it is a God given right that can not be abandon under the concept of some supposed more holy adventure or sacrifice.

[roguevalley]

1. I have read that its not catholic that the pope be head of the church since in the

beginning none of the bishops were placed over each other in power in the cities where they lived.

[Fortinbras Armstrong]

2. Even the bishops have said so

The bishops of Vatican II explained their understanding of how the Spirit reveals itself to the Church:

The whole body of the faithful who have an anointing that comes from the holy one (cf. 1 Jn. 2:20, 27) cannot err in matters of belief. This characteristic is shown in the supernatural appreciation of the faith of the whole people (sensus fidei), when, “from the bishops to the last of the faithful” they manifest a universal consent in matters of faith and morals. By this appreciation of the faith, aroused and sustained by the Spirit of truth, the people of God, guided by the sacred teaching authority (magisterium) and obeying it, receives not a merely human word but truly the word of God (cf. 1 Th. 2:13), the faith once for all delivered to the saints (cf. Jude 3). The people unfailingly adhere to this faith, penetrate it deeply with right judgment and apply it more fully in daily life. -- Lumen Gentium 12

There is a relationship between the faith of the people of God and the teaching authority within this people. This relationship becomes clearer from the description Vatican II gave of the process by which the Pope and the bishops preserve and expound the teaching of revelation:

[T]hrough the light of the Spirit of truth, [revelation] is scrupulously preserved in the Church and unerringly explained. The Roman pontiff and the bishops, by reason of their office and the seriousness of the matter apply themselves with zeal to the work of enquiring by every suitable means into this revelation and of giving apt expression to its contents; they do not, however, admit any new public revelation as pertaining to the divine deposit of faith. -- Lumen Gentium 25

What this means is that the Pope and the bishops do not originate teachings. Rather, they bear authentic witness to the faith of the whole Church, as they guide the Church toward the fullness of truth. They do not appeal to some special revelation unavailable to the rest of the faithful. Rather, they are charged to take serious pains to search out the faith of the Church and to express it in a fitting way. It is in this process that the Holy Spirit guides and sustains and preserves from error. A simple act of papal or episcopal authority, apart from this process, would produce, not certainty, but further misgiving and doubt.

The point is that although the Pope and the bishops do not have sources that no one else has, they do have the right to speak for the whole Church and to the whole Church. Scholars and others can investigate the faith of the Church accurately and faithfully. They can report their results to anyone who is willing to listen to them; but no one is obliged to listen. Their reports do not constitute an authentic expression of the faith of the Church, and they cannot speak for the Church. This is the responsibility of the Pope and the bishops, and the rest of the Church must listen to them. Of course, the rest of the Church need not take what they say blindly, but must consider it carefully. Aquinas says explicitly that if someone's conscience goes against Church teaching, it is the conscience which must be followed, not the teaching.

This responsibility requires that the Pope and the bishops use “every suitable means” to discover the revelation affirmed in the faith of the believing community. This faith is embodied in the Scriptures, in the writings of the Church fathers, in the prayers of the liturgy, the teachings of councils, and the living convictions of the baptized. It is not enough for Church leaders to pray, to reason, to reflect, and to remember. It is necessary to inquire.

[mykpart]

3. The College of Cardinals,

I recently learned, at one time was elected by the people. And they did not have to be bishops first. Although now we seem to be locked into a Catch 22 in that the magesterium has become a self-serving and self-perpetuating entity with no one to correct its errors. I pray for a new pope to be elected who will surprise everyone and also live a long time.

As an aside, did you know that in the Middle Ages, Cardinals sometimes attempted to assassinate a Pope when they didn't agree with him? But they didn't question his authority!

[olegramps]

4. That is exactly what Pope John XXIII attempted to do.

The bishops who assembled for Vatican II absolutely refused to be intimidated by the Vatican Curia. Encouraged by Pope John's opening statement in which "...in unmistakable language he disassociated himself from the Curia's narrow, defensive view of the council and urged the bishops instead to undertake a great renewal or updating of the Church." (A Concise History of the Catholic Church, Thomas Bokenkotter, p. 413) When the Curia attempted to impose its will on the Council the bishops revolted. The headlines in the Italian newspapers in bold type screamed, "Bishops in Revolt!" They threw out sixty nine out of the seventy schemas that had been prepared by the Curia as totally unacceptable. The Curia mistakenly believed the bishops would rubber stamp them and quietly return to their dioceses ending the ridiculous attempts of Pope JohnXXXIII to drag the
the Church into the twentieth century.

It is impossible to imagine that a council comprised of todays bootlickers would have the both the courage and more importantly the knowledge to make any challenge to the dictates of the Vatican cronies. I fear that the only source of hope is a revolt by the laity, however, the chances of that transpiring are dismal at best.