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Wed Apr 24, 2013, 02:46 PM

When was hell created?? ... And by Whom??

Just wondering ..............

21 replies, 1846 views

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Arrow 21 replies Author Time Post
Reply When was hell created?? ... And by Whom?? (Original post)
Angry Dragon Apr 2013 OP
rug Apr 2013 #1
hrmjustin Apr 2013 #12
Vietnameravet Apr 2013 #2
Phillip McCleod Apr 2013 #10
rurallib Apr 2013 #3
backscatter712 Apr 2013 #4
dimbear Apr 2013 #5
LostOne4Ever Apr 2013 #6
struggle4progress Apr 2013 #7
Warren Stupidity Apr 2013 #8
struggle4progress Apr 2013 #9
Warren Stupidity Apr 2013 #11
struggle4progress Apr 2013 #14
Iggo Apr 2013 #13
struggle4progress Apr 2013 #15
LostOne4Ever Apr 2013 #16
struggle4progress Apr 2013 #18
LostOne4Ever Apr 2013 #19
struggle4progress Apr 2013 #20
LostOne4Ever Apr 2013 #21
Meshuga Apr 2013 #17

Response to Angry Dragon (Original post)

Wed Apr 24, 2013, 02:48 PM

1. October 7, 1996 by Rupert Murdoch.

YW.

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Response to rug (Reply #1)

Thu Apr 25, 2013, 06:02 PM

12. LMAFO!!!!

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Response to Angry Dragon (Original post)

Wed Apr 24, 2013, 02:56 PM

2. Actually, you might be interested to notice that heaven is hotter than hell... as this article shows

HEAVEN IS HOTTER THAN HELL
The temperature of heaven can be rather accurately computed. Our authority is the Bible, Isaiah 30:26 reads,

Moreover, the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold as the light of seven days.

Thus, heaven receives from the moon as much radiation as the earth does from the sun, and in addition seven times seven (forty nine) times as much as the earth does from the sun, or fifty times in all. The light we receive from the moon is one ten-thousandth of the light we receive from the sun, so we can ignore that. With these data we can compute the temperature of heaven: The radiation falling on heaven will heat it to the point where the heat lost by radiation is just equal to the heat received by radiation. In other words, heaven loses fifty times as much heat as the earth by radiation. Using the Stefan-Boltzmann fourth power law for radiation
(H/E)4 = 50

where E is the absolute temperature of the earth, 300K (273+27). This gives H the absolute temperature of heaven, as 798 absolute (525C).

The exact temperature of hell cannot be computed but it must be less than 444.6C, the temperature at which brimstone or sulfur changes from a liquid to a gas. Revelations 21:8: But the fearful and unbelieving... shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." A lake of molten brimstone means that its temperature must be at or below the boiling point, which is 444.6C. (Above that point, it would be a vapor, not a lake.)

We have then, temperature of heaven, 525C. Temperature of hell, less than 445C. Therefore heaven is hotter than hell.

http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/hell.htm

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Response to Vietnameravet (Reply #2)

Thu Apr 25, 2013, 04:49 PM

10. that's great.. thx! \n

 

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Response to Angry Dragon (Original post)

Wed Apr 24, 2013, 03:26 PM

3. your mind, when you were 7, by your parents

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Response to Angry Dragon (Original post)

Wed Apr 24, 2013, 04:11 PM

4. By Middle-Eastern goat-herders, about 3,000 years ago. n/t

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Response to Angry Dragon (Original post)

Wed Apr 24, 2013, 05:08 PM

5. I don't know when but it was by the avid for power chap who had just lost a wrasslin match to be

king and decided to be shaman.

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Response to Angry Dragon (Original post)

Wed Apr 24, 2013, 06:08 PM

6. If I recall correctly

IIRC the concept of hell was created by the Zoroastrians in ~600BCE.

Not my area though, so I can't be sure.

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Response to Angry Dragon (Original post)

Thu Apr 25, 2013, 11:36 AM

7. The notion that the dead go somewhere has re-occurred in many cultures

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #7)

Thu Apr 25, 2013, 12:42 PM

8. as have dragons.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #8)

Thu Apr 25, 2013, 03:40 PM

9. Hmm. I'm not sure what that has to do with the OP, which

asks about the origin of the idea that the dead go somewhere, to which the proper answer seems to be: there is no one single idea there and no one single origin

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 25, 2013, 05:33 PM

11. you appeared to have made an argument ad populum for "an afterlife".

I was just helping you out with how absurd such a claim is, in case you weren't aware.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #11)

Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:43 PM

14. No, what I actually did was to point out what an ill-formed question the OP asked

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #9)

Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:13 PM

13. Hell's just some place dead people go?

That's not the way they told it in catholic school.

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Response to Iggo (Reply #13)

Thu Apr 25, 2013, 08:53 PM

15. If the OP intended a more specific discourse, perhaps a more precise question would have been

appropriate

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #9)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 03:20 AM

16. Actually

The OP asks specifically about Hell. While the idea that the dead go somewhere is quite old and found in many cultures the idea of hell can be traced back to Zoroastrianism.


Achaemenid era (648330 BCE) Zoroastrianism developed the abstract concepts of heaven and hell, as well as personal and final judgment, all of which are only alluded to in the Gathas. Yasna 19, which has only survived in a Sassanid era ( Zend commentary on the Ahuna Vairya invocation), prescribes a Path to Judgment known as the Chinvat Peretum or Chinvat bridge (cf: As-Sirāt in Islam), which all souls had to cross, and judgment (over thoughts, words, and deeds performed during a lifetime) was passed as they were doing so. However, the Zoroastrian personal judgment is not final. At the end of time, when evil is finally defeated, all souls will be ultimately reunited with their Fravashi. Thus, Zoroastrianism can be said to be a universalist religion with respect to salvation.



This is the earliest concept of hell as we know it. Though the concept of tartarus is similar and almost as old. The Ancient egyptians also had a destroyer who would punish you and then annihilate your soul (no eternal life for the spirit).

I guess it depends on what the OP meant by hell.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hell#Religion.2C_mythology.2C_and_folklore

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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #16)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 12:17 PM

18. The English word is sometimes presumed to come from the name of a Nordic goddess,

unlikely to be related to Zoroastrianism. And various non-western cultures, such as Tibetan Buddhism, also often have notions that are translated into English as "hell," again unlikely to be related to Zoroastrianism

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #18)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 04:06 AM

19. Im afraid you are mistaken

Im afraid you are mistaken.

To begin with Zoroastrianism and hell pre-date Christianity which pre-dates the English language (~500AD for Old English). But ignoring that, Hel is from Nordic Mythology which itself can only be dated back to around 700-800AD at the earliest (when Iceland was first settled) which is 1500 years after hell was developed by the Zoroastrians. Usually Nordic mythology is dated around 1000AD. This is because everything we know of their beliefs comes from the Poetic and Prose Eddas.

The problem of dating the poems is linked with the problem of finding out where they were composed. Since Iceland was not settled until about 870, anything composed before that time would necessarily have been elsewhere, most likely in Scandinavia. Any young poems, on the other hand, are likely Icelandic in origin.


Going back to the Germanic paganisms that predates Nordic Mythology you would go back to the Migration Period (barbarian invasions) from 400-800AD. During this time those religions would have been extensively influenced by Christianity and Greek mythology which already had a concept of hell from its influence from Zoroastrianism.

During the Migration Period, Germanic religion was subject to syncretic influence from Christianity and Mediterranean culture.


Tibetan Buddhism traces its roots back to ~500AD over 1000 years after zoroastrianism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tibetan_Buddhism#History

Buddhism, in general, traces it roots back to 600 BC. Zoroastrianism (dates back to the 2nd millennium BCE) was the official religion of the Achaemenid Empire (first Persian empire) which stretched from Egypt to Pakistan (India's neighbor) and Zoroastrianism spread from there into India.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zorastrianism#In_South_Asia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Empire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Buddhism


You can double check with the links but this means that Buddhist and the Norse knew of the Zoroastrian version of hell before they created their own version and probably were influenced by it, and probably borrowed elements from Zoroastrianism. These religions did cross paths as their faiths expanded.


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Response to LostOne4Ever (Reply #19)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 12:49 PM

20. If you wish to find Zoroastrian influences in northern Europe, more would be required

than dates and vague suppositions about how such influences might have arrived. The fact that the Iceland itself was not discovered and settled until the early medieval period does not cast any light on the question: Scandinavia (for example) has been settled since the end of the last ice age, over ten millennia ago. Religious culture is usually quite conservative and changes only slowly, so the religious complexion of (say) northern Europe at the time of the first written records is likely to reflect ideas and practices from rather before that time and rather after it: neither the earliest historical records nor available archaeological investigation suggests anything resembling Zoroastrian practice there, which fact constitutes good evidence against Zoroastrian influences

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #20)

Sat Apr 27, 2013, 03:29 PM

21. Then I guess

Then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

However, the question of did X influence Y was not the OP's question. What he/she asked was when hell was created and by whom. I think I have documented, with all those dates,quite clearly that Zoroastrianism gets that dubious honor. All the other notions of hell were pre-dated by it.

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Response to Angry Dragon (Original post)

Fri Apr 26, 2013, 08:29 AM

17. In which mythology or belief?

Regardless, it was likely built by Halliburton through a no bid contract.

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