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Wed Feb 20, 2013, 04:14 PM

Common ground.

Where do we all share common ground? Or what connects us? I ask this in the whole big religion and our culture picture.

For me, I feel the separation of church and state is a standard in our public / political life. It's the big one, imo. A common take among most of us no?

Others?

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Arrow 18 replies Author Time Post
Reply Common ground. (Original post)
pinto Feb 2013 OP
defacto7 Feb 2013 #1
Thats my opinion Feb 2013 #8
skepticscott Feb 2013 #2
pinto Feb 2013 #10
skepticscott Feb 2013 #15
pinto Feb 2013 #16
skepticscott Feb 2013 #17
Meshuga Feb 2013 #18
struggle4progress Feb 2013 #3
goldent Feb 2013 #6
pinto Feb 2013 #9
cbayer Feb 2013 #4
pinto Feb 2013 #11
trotsky Feb 2013 #5
pinto Feb 2013 #12
trotsky Feb 2013 #14
Jim__ Feb 2013 #7
pinto Feb 2013 #13

Response to pinto (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 04:34 PM

1. To me it's an absolute standard in public/political life.

In America, it's a absolute necessity.

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Response to defacto7 (Reply #1)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 10:00 PM

8. the legal--and actual question has always been

the relationship between the two very different clauses in the 1st amendment. Most of the issues involve how we understand the demands of these two clauses. What to you think?

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Response to pinto (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 05:46 PM

2. The most important common ground

that two people or two groups of people can have is agreement on what is true and what is not, and what is real and what is not.

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Response to skepticscott (Reply #2)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:15 PM

10. What about agreement on common goals and objectives among us all?

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Response to pinto (Reply #10)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 10:13 AM

15. Pretty hard to agree on separation of church and state

as a "common goal" with people who think it's true that "god's law" should take precedent over human law, wouldn't you say?

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Response to skepticscott (Reply #15)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 10:48 AM

16. Yeah. Religious right extremists are just that - extreme. Yet I think the rest of us agree on

the separation principle as a common goal to maintain. And defend. Regardless of our various positions on religion itself.

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Response to pinto (Reply #16)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 10:52 AM

17. Yes, we do..or should

But not without agreeing on the more fundamental underlying truth first. Which was my point.

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Response to skepticscott (Reply #17)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 11:51 AM

18. I understand not being able to work...

...with people who believe that god's law should replace secular law. These are the very people trying to impose religion and likely advocating for religion in the public realm.

However, why would we have to agree on truth regarding the existance of god(s) before we can work together on common goals such as fighting religious imposition?

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Response to pinto (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 06:03 PM

3. Many relationships are based, not on abstract philosphical agreement, but on shared common work:

(1) agree on common objectives and strategies towards those objectives; (2) manifest enough self-discipline to set aside whatever differences are irrelevant to current common objectives and strategies; and then (3) work together on projects that support common objectives and strategies

I can have meaningful relationships with folk who do not share my abstract philosphical views but who do agree with me about what needs to be done and are willing to work with me towards common goals

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 08:14 PM

6. excellent point

This is how the world works. Probably 90% of the people I know, I don't know their religion or politics, and don't really want to know.

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #3)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:10 PM

9. Agree.

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Response to pinto (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 06:04 PM

4. Separation issues and addressing prejudice against marginalized theist and atheist groups.

But I also think *we* (that is, liberal progressive democrats) share many more goals - civil rights, social justice and carrying for those most in need that cross all religious lines.

College kids are figuring that out and forming interfaith alliances that include groups for non-believers. We should follow their lead.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #4)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:19 PM

11. Yeah, I think inclusion across all lines and progressive goals are some things we can all share.

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Response to pinto (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 07:27 PM

5. I've observed in this very group that many believers dismiss state/church separation issues

that cause concern to atheists.

"It's no big deal."

"You need to choose your battles."

"Atheists won't be happy until they've destroyed all religion."

"It's an historical monument, you need to get over it."

"It's tradition."

All of those sentiments and more are commonly heard on DU, so I question whether even a commitment to state/church separation is truly what connects us.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #5)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:26 PM

12. What does connect us? Where is the common ground?

fwiw, I think most of us agree on state/church separation. I mentioned that in the OP as a starting point for a common ground discussion.

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Response to pinto (Reply #12)

Thu Feb 21, 2013, 07:48 AM

14. I think most of us agree in principle

but for many the commitment is disappointingly selective and shallow. I think most of us agree that baby hedgehogs are cute, too.

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Response to pinto (Original post)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 09:38 PM

7. Legitimate education, especially science education.

I'm pretty sure that everyone here is agreed that creationism and intelligent design have no place in a public school education. Both have been outlawed by the courts as not legitimate science.

It looks like we are about to go through a new round on this. The new movement to get creationism into the classroom is the call for academic freedom. This is a smart move for creationists. I support academic freedom; but not when it is just a subterfuge to sneak creationism and intelligent design in through the back door. It could be difficult to support academic freedom and yet claim that it doesn't apply to creationism.

I think we could all work together against this latest movement.

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Response to Jim__ (Reply #7)

Wed Feb 20, 2013, 11:42 PM

13. Checked out the site and its sources. Man, they are deftly dancing to wrap a basic opposition to

well established biological evolution science under the guise of "academic freedom", complete with the liberty bell and the national flag...

Disingenuous at best.

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