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Sun Feb 10, 2013, 12:16 PM

A nice counterbalance to a trainwreck of a thread

35 replies, 3601 views

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Arrow 35 replies Author Time Post
Reply A nice counterbalance to a trainwreck of a thread (Original post)
dsc Feb 2013 OP
grantcart Feb 2013 #1
AlbertCat Feb 2013 #35
humblebum Feb 2013 #2
MADem Feb 2013 #4
humblebum Feb 2013 #5
MADem Feb 2013 #6
humblebum Feb 2013 #7
MADem Feb 2013 #8
humblebum Feb 2013 #9
MADem Feb 2013 #10
humblebum Feb 2013 #11
MADem Feb 2013 #12
humblebum Feb 2013 #13
MADem Feb 2013 #16
cleanhippie Feb 2013 #17
MADem Feb 2013 #18
cleanhippie Feb 2013 #19
MADem Feb 2013 #25
cleanhippie Feb 2013 #26
EvilAL Feb 2013 #32
cleanhippie Feb 2013 #34
cleanhippie Feb 2013 #15
Goblinmonger Feb 2013 #21
cleanhippie Feb 2013 #22
Goblinmonger Feb 2013 #23
cleanhippie Feb 2013 #24
LeftishBrit Feb 2013 #28
MADem Feb 2013 #29
cbayer Feb 2013 #3
cleanhippie Feb 2013 #14
skepticscott Feb 2013 #20
patrice Feb 2013 #27
Phillip McCleod Feb 2013 #30
patrice Feb 2013 #31
mr blur Feb 2013 #33

Response to dsc (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 12:48 PM

1. Perfect

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Response to grantcart (Reply #1)

Fri Feb 15, 2013, 10:17 PM

35. Perfect

Not exactly.

It's "move TOO fast" not "move to fast".

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Response to dsc (Original post)


Response to humblebum (Reply #2)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:20 PM

4. Way to miss the point entirely....as you speak for your God, insisting that he's

condemning them for not being what he created them to be!

The point of the OP, there, is that this God does not make mistakes--they are what they are, it is what it is....but you're still trying to twist the point and assign an element of denigration to the natural circumstances of individuals. Not cool.

Do you hear that sharp cracking noise? You're on some very thin ice, pal.

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Response to MADem (Reply #4)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:31 PM

5. That is your interpretation of what I said. I could not disagree agree with you more.

 

There is not a single element of denigration toward the "natural circumstances of individuals" in anything that I have said. On the contrary, I criticize those who would attempt to interfere or stop those natural circumstances.

What I do detect from you, though, is a strong anti-religious bias in your insinuation.

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Response to humblebum (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:40 PM

6. No "interpretation" on my part is required. Your comment is quite plain.

Let's review it:

Perhaps, then, he does condemn them for NOT being what he created them to be or trying to stop others from being what he created them to be.


You are doing the thinking for your deity. I think you're on thin ice, and that's not "anti-religious bias" talking. I am looking at your own words and coming to that conclusion.

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Response to MADem (Reply #6)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:47 PM

7. I have no idea where you got that from. You sure do not show it. Maybe the term

 

"perhaps" confuses you. I could substitute the term "maybe" to express the same idea. That idea is that we are all what we are, period. And that trying to deny what we are is dishonest, as is trying to make someone into something they are not is equally dishonest.

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Response to humblebum (Reply #7)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:49 PM

8. I "got that" from your post. Walk back slowly, now--the ice IS thin. nt

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Response to MADem (Reply #8)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:52 PM

9. If you did you failed to show it. I think your preconceived bias has affected your judgement. nt

 

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Response to humblebum (Reply #9)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:57 PM

10. Keep walking backwards, and trying to make this about me.

It's not working. You said what you said:

Perhaps, then, he does condemn them for NOT being what he created them to be or trying to stop others from being what he created them to be.


In the context of the OP, you stepped in it up to your ankles. No anxious attempts by you at refocusing the conversation can change that.

Your words. Yours.

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Response to MADem (Reply #10)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 02:05 PM

11. So then, if you have an objection to that statement, then that can only mean that you

 

support gays staying "in the closet" and living as if they were not gay. I would have to say that your ice is pretty thin, too - enough to read braille through.

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Response to humblebum (Reply #11)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 02:17 PM

12. Nope. Not even close.

Read the OP.

Read your comment.

It's pretty clear who is in the "condemnation" business, and that ain't me.

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Response to MADem (Reply #12)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 02:24 PM

13. You are the one who objected to the statement, not me. And you are also the one telling me

 

I'm on thin ice. So why do you support those who would attempt to keep gays in the closet? They have as much right to live their lives in peace and happiness as much as you and I do.

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Response to humblebum (Reply #13)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 02:38 PM

16. What a failure of a misdirect. You're the one that opposed the notion

postulated in the OP.

Not me.

Your words --which include that "condemn" one--speak for you.

Perhaps, then, he does condemn them for NOT being what he created them to be or trying to stop others from being what he created them to be.


You're the one with the condemnation agenda here. You said so.

I don't think any deity does any condemning at all. I do, though, think some people like to play that game, in their favorite deity's name.

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Response to MADem (Reply #16)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 03:00 PM

17. Homophobic bullshit like this has no place on DU.

A jury saw it for what it was and hid it. I hope MIRT sees it like that too. At a minimum, I would hope our hosts take action and block him from posting in here anymore.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #17)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 03:03 PM

18. I agree. I think the attempt to flip the argument is brazen in the extreme, too.

There's no getting around that "condemn" word, though.

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Response to MADem (Reply #18)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 03:08 PM

19. That has been his MO all along. I am suprised at the homophobic stuff.

I never really expected him to come right out like that, but he said what he said. It's right there for all to see.



Which is kind of funny, considering how many other threads where he states one thing, then claims the opposite, as if his words are not right there. It's bizarre.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #19)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:05 PM

25. I'm stunned he lasted that long. What rank hatred and judgment--

couched in a cutesy religious argument.

About as subtle as a Mack truck.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #26)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 04:33 PM

32. Holy shit..

I didn't think he'd get TS'd for being homophobic. I figured possibly for a couple of other things, but that threw me off.

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Response to EvilAL (Reply #32)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 06:38 PM

34. Yep, me too.

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Response to humblebum (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 02:31 PM

15. Your post was homophobic drivel, couched in religious cover. Despicable.

Even for you.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #15)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 04:39 PM

21. Looks like admin agreed.

That user is PPR.

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #21)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 04:39 PM

22. +1

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #22)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 04:42 PM

23. As is the OP of the original train wreck. n/t

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #23)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 04:43 PM

24. I saw that too.

It is sunday. Is the rapture upon us?

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Response to humblebum (Reply #5)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:21 PM

28. MADem certainly has no anti-religious bias

I do not know whether they are a religious believer or not; but I do know that they have several times criticized attacks on religious people on this forum.

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Response to LeftishBrit (Reply #28)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 10:33 PM

29. I am a fan of civility and I think people have every right to believe what they'd like.

Deity, deities, no deities...forge your own path, or follow your favorite leader.

I part ways when beliefs include bigotry or any desire to restrict the rights of others, but beyond that, I say "Whatever gets ya through this life, go for it!"

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 01:16 PM

3. Nicely done, dsc. Thanks for posting this.

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Response to dsc (Original post)


Response to cleanhippie (Reply #14)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 03:25 PM

20. The cowardice in trying to camouflage

Last edited Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:27 PM - Edit history (1)

one's own bigoted opinions by saying something like "this may be what god thinks" is disgusting...

On edit..delighted to say it WAS disgusting

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Response to dsc (Original post)

Sun Feb 10, 2013, 05:16 PM

27. KICKING! There's a REASON the First Commandment is the First Commandment.

Blasphemy is a very dangerous error.

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Response to patrice (Reply #27)

Mon Feb 11, 2013, 11:05 PM

30. it took me a minute to figure it out

 

but your saying 'speaking for god' is the offensive part?

i rather think the homophobic part is more offensive.

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Response to Phillip McCleod (Reply #30)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 12:12 AM

31. Well, I think I agree with you on that because speaking homophobically for God is doubly evil.

If someone says "I hate homosexuals" that's bad enough; if someone says "God hates homosexuals" that's much worse. It's worse than blaspheming about God in other ways, because hate is one of the most base human emotions.

I actually listened to a couple of Fred Phelps speeches on YouTube once and I was struck by how, to more naive minds, or to people without well developed intelligence, he would be utterly hypnotic, his style was powerful and full of divine drama, but what made it so much worse was that, not only was he blaspheming in a very attractive manner, he was also blaspheming with hate and fear, both very hard-wired powerful responses. He was saying the absolutely worse possible things to the lowest common denominator minds.

BTW, I don't particularly like the word "God", because I think it gets abused too much, too anthropomorphized. I kind of prefer the Kaballahistic notion that anything that might be what a God would be would not be pronounceable/knowable in the first place. I think that idea is inherent in the first of the JUDEO-Christian 10 Commandments: if you think you know God, you are placing a false god, your own mind/knowing, before whatever a God would be, since such an entity would not be subject to/dependent upon our mind's knowing. To me a more appropriate attitude toward anything like that would be: **IF** there is such a thing, it is best addressed as Buddhists do in calm, empty, awareness. And that must be an **IF**, because if you pre-determine the answer to that question you make whatever there is, if there is anything, subject to that predetermined answer. I think the Buddhists say you should give up on even asking the question.

To me, a better word for what many people are mistakenly calling God would be truth, so the caution expressed in the 1st Commandment and in the Kaballah and elsewhere is that one does not own the truth absolutely. It is what it is, not what you exclusively think it is and to think that one does own it as an unchangeable absolute for all persons at all times makes whatever truth one thinks one owns untrue. Absolutism falsifies "truth", because everything is in process.

What we are referring to by means of the word "truth" is a product of perspective. Perspectives can be shared by one person relative to that which is perceived, or a few, or many, but its all relative to what constitutes the perspective and perspectives can be quite different. That's why I can't tell you what you know; you're the one who has to know it. Each of us might share what each of us knows and discover some degree of overlap, but each of us has to do our own knowing (a process) and accept that it isn't absolute. Like Buckminster Fuller said, "I seem to be a verb."

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Response to patrice (Reply #31)

Tue Feb 12, 2013, 06:10 PM

33. Well, unless you're a Pope.

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