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Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:14 PM

Va. panel Oks measure to allow prayer, religious activities in all public places

By Fredrick Kunkle,
The Washington Post
Tuesday, January 29, 7:24 PM

RICHMOND — A Senate committee in the Virginia General Assembly on Tuesday narrowly endorsed a measure to amend the state’s Bill of Rights to require all public places and schools to accommodate prayer or other religious activity and allow students to be dismissed from assignments or presentations that conflict with their religious beliefs.

The resolution — sponsored by Republican Sens. William M. Stanley, Jr. (Franklin) and Charles W. “Bill” Carrico (Grayson) — would guarantee public officials, students and others the right to conduct religious activities as long as they were not disruptive and no one was coerced to participate.

Stanley told the panel that the measure was intended to ensure that people of all religions would not be penalized for exercising their right to religious beliefs. To illustrate, he said that a Muslim high school student could ask to be excused from dissecting a fetal pig in biology class, because their religion views those animals as unclean, without affecting his or her grades.

- snip -

But Claire Guthrie Gastanaga, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union, said that the bill, if passed, would be an unconstitutional establishment of religion.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/va-politics/va-panel-oks-measure-to-allow-prayer-religious-activities-in-all-public-places/2013/01/29/674a7d04-6a6f-11e2-95b3-272d604a10a3_story.html

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Reply Va. panel Oks measure to allow prayer, religious activities in all public places (Original post)
rug Jan 2013 OP
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #1
rug Jan 2013 #2
Fortinbras Armstrong Jan 2013 #11
Kalidurga Jan 2013 #3
dballance Jan 2013 #5
Kalidurga Jan 2013 #6
dballance Jan 2013 #7
Kalidurga Jan 2013 #8
tama Jan 2013 #10
msongs Jan 2013 #4
struggle4progress Jan 2013 #9
Fortinbras Armstrong Jan 2013 #12
cbayer Jan 2013 #13

Response to rug (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:18 PM

1. What are your views on this??

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #1)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:19 PM

2. It's rightwing showboating.

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Response to rug (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 08:59 AM

11. Exactly right

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Response to rug (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:21 PM

3. I tend to agree...

Prayer should have reasonable accommodations. If a person doesn't want to dissect an animal then they shouldn't have to. I believe there are vegetarians and vegans that would be just as horrified over dissecting a pig. Of course, in some cases frogs are available, that is what we had in my science class, that settles the issue for Muslims I believe, but not vegetarian/vegans.

I still think that all the religious stuff is nonsense. But, it's also nonsense to say that having a quiet space for prayer is establishment of religion especially if it is a space that can be used by pagans, Buddhists, Muslims, Christians, or even atheists for quiet meditation.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #3)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:37 PM

5. We Dissected Frogs in our Basic Biology Class

Fetal Pigs were dissected by the advanced biology class that was typically only available to seniors. There was always accommodation for students that had religious or deeply personal beliefs so that they could opt out of dissecting the pig. They had to complete some alternative set of coursework to substitute for it though. They didn't just get a pass to go sit in the cafeteria.

This bill is RW showboating as has been posted. I believe the 1st Amendment already covers what they're trying to do. I'm pretty certain the threat of the ACLU has already tamed most cities and towns to the point they will permit religious groups of all religions.

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Response to dballance (Reply #5)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:42 PM

6. I wouldn't be surprised if like you say things to accommodate are already in place...

if they are then well kind of goes along with what I was saying. It's no big deal to allow people to pray. And it's no big deal to allow people to not dissect pigs if they are not willing for religious or ethical reasons. I do wonder though what the motives are. I don't think it can be to establish a religion because all accommodations would have to be for any and all religions.

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Response to Kalidurga (Reply #6)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:53 PM

7. I Wouldn't Have the Least Problem With Establishing a Prayer Room for Muslims, For Instance

Their noon and afternoon prayer times would seem to likely fall during the school day. Now, how you implement that without disrupting class and figuring out how to deal with them missing some instruction I don't know. I'll let smarter people do that.

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Response to dballance (Reply #7)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:56 PM

8. I don't think missing class time is a reasonable accommodation.

I am with you on that though, letting someone else figure it out.

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Response to dballance (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 07:46 AM

10. Sacrificing frogs

 

on the altar of "science". Strange ritual in American schools, cruel and dehumanizing. It does not teach compassion and respect towards all living beings, it teaches the opposite.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/05/29/us/frogs-best-friends-students-who-won-t-dissect-them.html

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Response to rug (Original post)

Tue Jan 29, 2013, 11:22 PM

4. religion = coercion in these situations nt

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Response to rug (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:21 AM

9. Coming up next: "Math is against my religion!"

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #9)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 10:23 AM

12. Poe's Law strikes again

A quote from a fundamentalist textbook brochure at What do Christian fundamentalists have against set theory?

"Unlike the "modern math" theorists, who believe that mathematics is a creation of man and thus arbitrary and relative, A Beka Book teaches that the laws of mathematics are a creation of God and thus absolute....A Beka Book provides attractive, legible, and workable traditional mathematics texts that are not burdened with modern theories such as set theory." — ABeka.com


That's right, at least some fundamentalists disapprove of set theory on religious grounds.

Georg Cantor proved that there are multiple infinite sets. This disturbs certain fundamentalists, who feel that this is an affront to their beliefs. As one of them put it in the article I cited, "There is only one infinity, and that is God."

Fundamentalists believe that the Bible is literally true, that sincere adoption of the Gospel message is the key to virtue in this life and salvation in the next, and rejection of any part of it will lead to the fires of hell. Anything which contradicts their beliefs is inspired by Satan. Doubt is strongly discouraged.

Unfortunately for the fundamentalist viewpoint, the universe itself does not support it. The universe is far older than 10 thousand years; creatures, includimg humans, evolved from other creatures; there was not a world-wide flood; Joshua did not make the sun stand still and so on.

In order to accept the fundamentalist view, one must reject biology, astronomy, geology, much of physics, some significant parts of chemistry and even mathematics.

Another place you might go is Conservapedia, the world's stupidest wiki. Andrew Schlafly, the man who founded and runs it, has a strange objection to things such as imaginary numbers (which is odd, considering that he boasts of his bachelors degree in electrical engineering), the equation e = mc**2, and the proof by contradiction.

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Response to rug (Original post)

Wed Jan 30, 2013, 12:32 PM

13. Interesting twist that they seem to be going out of their way to include other religions

when they talk about this.

Not sure what to make of it.

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