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Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:11 PM

The Most Persecuted Religion in the World

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kelly-james-clark/christianity-most-persecuted-religion_b_2402644.html

Kelly James Clark
Senior Research Fellow, Kaufman Interfaith Institute, Grand Valley State University

Over the past year, I have written of the intolerance that Christians have shown to Muslims in the U.S. From Missouri to Murphreesboro, Christians have demonstrated both a lack of charity and a denial of the right to religious liberty by setting fire to old mosques and opposing new ones. But Christians in the U.S. are rank amateurs compared to the Muslim persecution of Christians in the Middle East.

In early November, German Chancellor Angela Merkel declared that Christianity is "the most persecuted religion in the world." Although met with predictable criticism, Rupert Short's recent research report for Civitas UK confirms Merkel's claim -- we may not want to hear it, but Christianity is in peril, like no other religion. While this is a contest no one wants to win, Short shows that "Christians are targeted more than any other body of believers." Short is the author of the recently published Christianophobia: A Faith Under Attack. He is concerned that "200 million Christians (10 percent of the global total) are socially disadvantaged, harassed or actively oppressed for their beliefs."

Christianity is facing elimination in its Biblical homeland. Between a half and two-thirds of Christians in the Middle East have departed or been killed over the past century. Short attributes the intolerance and violence towards Christians to the rising Islamicization of Middle Eastern countries. Some of the oppression is government sanctioned and some government permitted; most is government ignored.

Short looks at the plight of Christians in the Middle East, country by country. When it comes to religious oppression, the devil, one might say, is in the details.

more at link

127 replies, 8346 views

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Reply The Most Persecuted Religion in the World (Original post)
cbayer Jan 2013 OP
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #1
cbayer Jan 2013 #2
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #8
cbayer Jan 2013 #11
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #13
cbayer Jan 2013 #14
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #17
cbayer Jan 2013 #18
rug Jan 2013 #3
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #20
rug Jan 2013 #23
Buzz Clik Jan 2013 #4
cbayer Jan 2013 #5
lunasun Jan 2013 #6
cbayer Jan 2013 #7
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #9
cbayer Jan 2013 #10
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #12
cbayer Jan 2013 #15
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #16
cbayer Jan 2013 #19
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #21
cbayer Jan 2013 #22
Angry Dragon Jan 2013 #25
skepticscott Jan 2013 #24
trotsky Jan 2013 #46
lunasun Jan 2013 #48
JoeyT Jan 2013 #123
RedstDem Jan 2013 #26
Politicalboi Jan 2013 #27
rug Jan 2013 #28
cbayer Jan 2013 #39
uncommonCents Jan 2013 #63
thelordofhell Jan 2013 #29
rug Jan 2013 #30
thelordofhell Jan 2013 #34
rug Jan 2013 #35
thelordofhell Jan 2013 #37
rug Jan 2013 #38
thelordofhell Jan 2013 #40
rug Jan 2013 #41
thelordofhell Jan 2013 #42
rug Jan 2013 #43
patrice Jan 2013 #60
thelordofhell Jan 2013 #44
rug Jan 2013 #49
edhopper Jan 2013 #31
rug Jan 2013 #32
edhopper Jan 2013 #33
rug Jan 2013 #36
edhopper Jan 2013 #45
rug Jan 2013 #47
edhopper Jan 2013 #50
atreides1 Jan 2013 #55
rug Jan 2013 #71
edhopper Jan 2013 #80
rug Jan 2013 #81
edhopper Jan 2013 #85
rug Jan 2013 #95
edhopper Jan 2013 #104
tama Jan 2013 #77
rug Jan 2013 #79
tama Jan 2013 #83
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rug Jan 2013 #94
tama Jan 2013 #98
rug Jan 2013 #101
jamtoday Jan 2013 #97
okasha Jan 2013 #100
jamtoday Jan 2013 #107
okasha Jan 2013 #120
jamtoday Jan 2013 #124
rug Jan 2013 #103
jamtoday Jan 2013 #106
rug Jan 2013 #108
jamtoday Jan 2013 #113
rug Jan 2013 #115
jamtoday Jan 2013 #117
rug Jan 2013 #118
jamtoday Jan 2013 #91
rug Jan 2013 #93
jamtoday Jan 2013 #96
rug Jan 2013 #102
jamtoday Jan 2013 #105
rug Jan 2013 #109
jamtoday Jan 2013 #111
rug Jan 2013 #112
jamtoday Jan 2013 #114
okasha Jan 2013 #99
jamtoday Jan 2013 #110
okasha Jan 2013 #121
bluestateguy Jan 2013 #51
cbayer Jan 2013 #53
dimbear Jan 2013 #52
cbayer Jan 2013 #54
dimbear Jan 2013 #58
cbayer Jan 2013 #68
dimbear Jan 2013 #75
madrchsod Jan 2013 #64
jamtoday Jan 2013 #116
dimbear Jan 2013 #119
AnnieBW Jan 2013 #56
cbayer Jan 2013 #57
uncommonCents Jan 2013 #59
patrice Jan 2013 #61
uncommonCents Jan 2013 #65
patrice Jan 2013 #70
samsingh Jan 2013 #62
uncommonCents Jan 2013 #66
madrchsod Jan 2013 #72
madrchsod Jan 2013 #67
cbayer Jan 2013 #69
Adsos Letter Jan 2013 #73
okasha Jan 2013 #92
JDPriestly Jan 2013 #74
Speck Tater Jan 2013 #76
idwiyo Jan 2013 #78
cbayer Jan 2013 #82
trotsky Jan 2013 #84
Speck Tater Jan 2013 #86
cbayer Jan 2013 #87
Speck Tater Jan 2013 #88
cbayer Jan 2013 #89
Speck Tater Jan 2013 #90
Bradical79 Jan 2013 #126
Plantaganet Jan 2013 #122
SarahM32 Jan 2013 #125
Bradical79 Jan 2013 #127

Response to cbayer (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:23 PM

1. It should only make them stronger

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:26 PM

2. Yes, being killed usually makes someone stronger.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #2)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:44 PM

8. How many Christians are being killed in this country because they are Christians??

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #8)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:57 PM

11. The article is not about christians in this country, or did you miss that part.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #11)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:02 PM

13. Then why does the article say that Christians are the most persecuted in the World??

I thought the US was part of the world .............

Very easy to just look at a small part of the world to try to make a point

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #13)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:05 PM

14. A small part of the world compromised of countries mostly populated by Muslims?

Hardly.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #14)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:37 PM

17. ???????????

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #17)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:38 PM

18. Please, AD. I think in your haste to find some ways to bash american christians, you

skipped reading the article.

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #1)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:46 PM

3. Maybe they should sue.

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Response to rug (Reply #3)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:42 PM

20. God does say to turn the other cheek

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #20)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:50 PM

23. Annie does say to sue.

Or at least to fax a sternly worded letter.

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 12:57 PM

4. Not to be pedantic....

... but from Missouri to Murphreesboro is about 400 miles and crosses only four states.

It's even less impressive than the so-called long haul in the song, Willing: "I've been from Tuscon to Tucumcari", which is a distance of 580 miles over two states.

I hate to say this, but "from the Halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli" is a lot more global.

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Response to Buzz Clik (Reply #4)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:04 PM

5. I think it's just a reflection of where he went for the story.

Otoh, driving every kind of rig that's ever been made is pretty impressive.

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:21 PM

6. "Finally, the U.S. government must actively defend Christian liberty in Muslim-majority countries."

sorry but ....
Not with my tax $$$ !!!!!!

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Response to lunasun (Reply #6)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:23 PM

7. So you think the US government should deny help to persecuted populations based on

religion?

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Response to cbayer (Reply #7)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:47 PM

9. What the hell is the US doing to protect women and gays from religion in this country??

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #9)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 01:56 PM

10. Er, lots, as a matter of fact. And many US churches are leading the fight.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #10)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:00 PM

12. You brought up the government

What do churches have to do with government and please list the things the government is doing to protect women and gays ............

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #12)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:07 PM

15. Government, both federal, state and local, are very active in passing laws that protect the

civil liberties of women and gays.

And have been for quite some time.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #15)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:35 PM

16. Don't see it

care to list them versus the ones passed limiting the rights of women and gays

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #16)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:39 PM

19. Nah. I figure you are perfectly capable of using the google.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #19)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:47 PM

21. When I want to prove my point I will use Google

I will not use Google to find facts for someone else's opinion, that is their job

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 02:59 PM

22. You may want to use it, then, before you make ask questions like the one that started this

exchange.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #22)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 06:10 PM

25. I asked a question that you refused to answer

You answered with lots .........
And even if that is true then what are these Christian churches doing trying to skirt the laws so they can force their beliefs on others??

I believe anyone may believe anything they wish but when they try to force others to live within those beliefs then I feel they should be attacked for that abuse of their religion

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #21)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 03:55 PM

24. If you're expecting cbayer

Or any of the other apologists here to grasp the concept of providing evidence to back up their claims, you'll have a long wait. Their stock response (as here) is "You can't prove I'm wrong, so I'M RIGHT!!!!!"

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Response to lunasun (Reply #6)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 02:59 PM

46. Note that the call isn't for religious liberty, it's for *Christian* liberty.

Because in the same countries where these things happen to Christians, they also happen to other religious minorities, including atheists.

But it's Christians who are persecuted, you see. We need to protect CHRISTIANS.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #46)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 05:44 PM

48. noted

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Response to trotsky (Reply #46)

Tue Jan 8, 2013, 10:42 PM

123. Yep.

And we need to use the military to protect them, because killing hundreds of thousands of Muslims in their own countries for the sheer hell of it and kidnapping them and torturing them didn't count as persecution last time, and won't count as persecution when this happens, because only Christians can be persecuted.

Edited to add: To oust the puppet dictator we supported in one country and the fundamentalist whackjobs we armed because we hated the godless communists in another, no less. "Hey Muslims, we're going to give these dudes lots of weapons and let them brutally slaughter you for a few decades, then when they annoy us in the slightest we're going to invade and butcher a whole lot more of you. We'll be expecting you to kiss our feet while we hand out bibles and shoot you with rifles with bible passages on them. Then we'll write silly articles about how persecuted we are."

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 06:17 PM

26. mankind will not be free until

he last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 06:24 PM

27. Oh those poor "christians"

Being persecuted and all.

Where are the American "christians" to come to their rescue? They came together to shame and hate the gays and the war on X-Mas. Maybe if the Muslims feel welcomed by other "christians" in other countries, the "christians" in the middle east wouldn't feel the wrath.

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 01:10 PM

39. Wow, did you not read this? And if you did, do you really find it funny?

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Response to Politicalboi (Reply #27)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:10 PM

63. Christians do help other Christians

 

I know, I have been involved with this effort first hand. There are some really sad stories out there of persecuted Christians. Torture, persecutions, death. Educate yourself.

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Sat Jan 5, 2013, 06:41 PM

29. I guess that German Chancellor Angela Merkel knows about persecuted religions..........

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Response to thelordofhell (Reply #29)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 05:21 AM

30. Well, her father was a pastor in East Germany.

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Response to rug (Reply #30)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:49 AM

34. The key word in the sentence is German...........

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Response to thelordofhell (Reply #34)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 12:28 PM

35. German = Holocaust?

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Response to rug (Reply #35)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 12:51 PM

37. No

German = The Holocaust

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Response to thelordofhell (Reply #37)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 12:58 PM

38. You equate anything Geman with the Holocaust?

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Response to rug (Reply #38)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 01:17 PM

40. Time to stop.......this is obviously going over your head

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Response to thelordofhell (Reply #40)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 01:19 PM

41. Afraid not. Once you use a broad brush it's hard to stop.

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Response to rug (Reply #41)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 01:27 PM

42. When you talk about persecution of a religion..........know your history

If you are a German saying Christianity is the most persecuted religion...........you have to answer for your country killing millions upon millions upon millions of Jews.

You however, seem to think that it's a broad brush to equate The Holocaust with the history of Germany.........



I'm done with you........this is over now.

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Response to thelordofhell (Reply #42)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 01:30 PM

43. I know my history quite well. Apparently you didn't know Merkel's.

And you didn't equate the Holocaust with the history of Germany, you equated it with "German". Yeah, that's a broad brush.

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Response to thelordofhell (Reply #42)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:06 PM

60. What does Merkel's knowledge of the Holocaust have to do with her comments on recent events

involving Christians?

If Christians are being killed for being Christian, wouldn't that stand whether Merkel, who commented on the violence, knows anything about the Holocaust or not?

I'm afraid I don't see the point of your post.

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Response to rug (Reply #35)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 02:01 PM

44. Show me the Christian equivalent...........

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Response to thelordofhell (Reply #44)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 05:45 PM

49. Ah, so the Holocaust was not the result of Christianity.

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:25 AM

31. I did not know that

God is so weak that his religion can so easily be destroyed.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #31)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:21 AM

32. Do you know that humans are capable of destroying other humans?

You'd be surprised at the variety of reasons.

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Response to rug (Reply #32)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:55 AM

33. Of course

And God doesn't seem to intervene even when:

"Christianity is facing elimination in its Biblical homeland."

This all makes perfect sense, when religion is viewed as a human construct without a deity that can act in the physical world.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #33)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 12:37 PM

36. Perhaps you are confusing Christianity with magic.

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Response to rug (Reply #36)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 02:39 PM

45. Many believers

(though perhaps not you) think God has some effect and impact on the World.
I guess you side with the atheist camp that there is no evidence of any deity having any effect on us.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #45)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 05:44 PM

47. And maybe he does. But magic is the manupulation of the occult, which prayer is not.

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Response to rug (Reply #47)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:40 PM

50. So God cannot save

Christians or Christianity?

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Response to edhopper (Reply #50)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:52 PM

55. My mother told me that God answers prayers

It's just that the answer isn't always yes...

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Response to edhopper (Reply #50)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:37 PM

71. That doesn't follow in the least, as you well know.

I never met anyone named Ed who was any good at being coy.

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Response to rug (Reply #71)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:52 AM

80. I think I am being straight forward

You either believe god can affect the World or not. You seem to want it both ways.

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Response to edhopper (Reply #80)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:54 AM

81. Believing God can does not mean people can manipulae God by prayer.

They're two different things.

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Response to rug (Reply #81)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:54 PM

85. Who said anything about prayer?

I am just wondering if God will sit by while (according to the article) Christians are killed and Christianity is destroyed?

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Response to edhopper (Reply #85)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:14 PM

95. No, you said God is incapable.

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Response to rug (Reply #95)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:30 PM

104. Willfully missing the point

is something you do so well.
Have a nice day.

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Response to rug (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:21 AM

77. Careful there

 

That is what Church teaches, but if you take a closer look, "magic" is rather the art of making "prayer" (wishes) work. And "occult" means "secret", practice of making wishes come true secretly from Church authorities, as from more general and non-dogmatic view Church is claiming that Jesus (and possibly saints) have monopoly on magic and only magic allowed is that practiced in the name of Jesus and with approval of Church.

Claims of monopoly in spiritual etc. matters and persecution of those not accepting that monopoly, either because of supporting some other monopoly claim or not accepting any monopolies, has gotten old and very tiresome very long long time ago. Instead of monopoly claims more useful distinction would be egoristic prayer/magic/ritual/etc. and similar self-transformative practice into better human being. As they say, be careful what you wish for, cause you might just get it.

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Response to tama (Reply #77)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:25 AM

79. No, the essence of prayer is to seek the will of God, not to manipulate God.

There is no gnosis being invoked, no secret occult practice being employed.

The best example is the prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane.

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Response to rug (Reply #79)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:47 AM

83. Does

 

doing and being "it" require theology of external God and Will? And Jesus and nobody else as "translator" or what ever?

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Response to tama (Reply #83)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:13 PM

94. ?

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Response to rug (Reply #94)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:43 PM

98. Exactly

 

It, "God of Will", just raises theological questions. Like this one: does doing/being/fulfilling/etc God's Will require believing some theological answers to those theological questions? Such as mentioned in earlier post?

Also, suppose God is having a bad day and feeling grumpy. Would it be OK to manipulate God into better mood, or leave Him sulk alone? Which is Gods will?

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Response to tama (Reply #98)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:05 PM

101. For one thing, humans will never get either complete answers about, or complete understanding of,

God.

Anthropmorphizing God brings you no closer.

For a final thing, a human cannot manipulate God.

If any of the preceding statements are wrong, there is no God.

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Response to rug (Reply #47)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:42 PM

97. To follow up


on my other reply in this thread I must say that you worryingly project both prayer and occult magic as a tangible reality, which takes me back to my answer of Christianity is 'magic'. Even if you claim magic as the occult, which of course is absurd, your answer says you believe it to be a real thing and use 'counter-magic', which is not magic because it's a prayer to a man that spoke the whole Universe into existence; which once again is not magic because this wizard wears a white gown!

How does one manipulate the occult, I would broadly refer to some of Chomsky's thoughts on language and think here of the weight words can have and the baggage they carry. In claiming 'manipulation of the occult' you are in linguistics assigning that idea with a physical body or presence. I've often found this with a number of apologists for Christianity in that they will accept certain criticisms of the Bible and concede parts may not be true and that indeed much is moral preaching and metaphor. However the mention of evil sets them on edge and that it is indeed, for many of them more real than the simplistic/convoluted infantile morality plays in their book.

This goes to show the tradition of dictatorship and fear that imposed the Bible continues to have a greater influence on beliefs than the Biblical stories. As is perhaps proven by the onus of the OP in not considering these people having suffered until it became Christian suffering.

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Response to jamtoday (Reply #97)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:53 PM

100. I'll have vinaigrette on the salad.

Hold the cukes.

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Response to okasha (Reply #100)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:37 PM

107. Rug

has already trotted out that one out deary. I know acolytes are notorious for rehashing the object of their strange desire's words but do keep up.

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Response to jamtoday (Reply #107)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:18 PM

120. And the ham.

NT

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Response to okasha (Reply #120)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 05:52 PM

124. I've looked through the replies

to this thread and you have contributed nothing to any part of the discussion. It would appear that you have just jumped in to belittle anything and everything I say. How unpleasant.

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Response to jamtoday (Reply #97)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:08 PM

103. I don't believe in magic. Do you?

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Response to rug (Reply #103)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:34 PM

106. No

but the reply I was answering to it would seem to me that you do.

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Response to jamtoday (Reply #106)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:38 PM

108. No, not in the least.

Prayer is something much different and it's silly when people compare the two.

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Response to rug (Reply #108)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:48 PM

113. Why

is prayer different. You use the broad brushstroke at times so indulge me. Is not prayer an appeal to the suspension of natural law, appeals to cure illness sometimes whilst eschewing medical intervention. Appeals to drop money from the sky which surely is not many steps away from a rabbit out of the hat. In what way is issuing mumbo jumbo on behalf of the occult and asking God to drop manna from heaven different? I would claim both in the absurdity of the request and the likely result they are the same thing.

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Response to jamtoday (Reply #113)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:58 PM

115. This, in my view, is the most stark description of prayer under duress.

Mark 14:32-42
New International Version (NIV)

32 They went to a place called Gethsemane, and Jesus said to his disciples, “Sit here while I pray.” 33 He took Peter, James and John along with him, and he began to be deeply distressed and troubled. 34 “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death,” he said to them. “Stay here and keep watch.”

35 Going a little farther, he fell to the ground and prayed that if possible the hour might pass from him. 36 “Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”

37 Then he returned to his disciples and found them sleeping. “Simon,” he said to Peter, “are you asleep? Couldn’t you keep watch for one hour? 38 Watch and pray so that you will not fall into temptation. The spirit is willing, but the flesh is weak.”

39 Once more he went away and prayed the same thing. 40 When he came back, he again found them sleeping, because their eyes were heavy. They did not know what to say to him.

41 Returning the third time, he said to them, “Are you still sleeping and resting? Enough! The hour has come. Look, the Son of Man is delivered into the hands of sinners. 42 Rise! Let us go! Here comes my betrayer!”


Not a touch of magic in there.

There are all sorts of prayers, the Our Father most notably. Prayer at its root is an attempt to draw closer to God, whether in distress or in joy.

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Response to rug (Reply #115)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:25 PM

117. I'd like to say

I understand. I certainly understand the difference you are pointing out, but it is meaningless to me. Yet I still must point out the appeal to outside agencies but as you say not for any purpose of invocation.

Is there any short way to explain the appeal of these sorts of works in the Bible. I consider it devoid of poetry, badly written and irrelevant. I am the sort of person that considers it an evil book with an insidious purpose.

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Response to jamtoday (Reply #117)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:29 PM

118. Can't help you there.

Despite some gripping passages, it's way too loaded down with ananchronistic references for my taste. Besides, I don't believe in evil.

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Response to rug (Reply #36)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 03:13 PM

91. I thought

that Christianity was magic! Men made from mud, people living in fish (for three days was it? mmmm), the graves of saints that did not exist at the time emptying because of a rumoured death. Let's not forget the magic to come with locusts with breastplates of iron the face of women and hair of lions (bit skittish about the new magic of iron those bronze age peeps, wasn't there a Biblical character who even though he had the skyman's help just could not defeat those with the iron chariots?).

This is also political. The same people are setting Sunni against Shia with Wahabbies possibly murdering both, the Christian deaths pale into comparison with the indigenous deaths resultant from the recent invasions by 'christian' countries. The infant mortality and birth defects from depleted uranium should be a sobering thought for us all. However even though some of the people you mentioned may have died from the aforementioned reasons and under threat because of the political angle, none of this would seem to matter till your particular sky daddy is seen to be under threat. Disingenuous and disgraceful.

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Response to jamtoday (Reply #91)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:12 PM

93. You should think some more.

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Response to rug (Reply #93)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:22 PM

96. Then

what is it?

Mind you now we are so sophisticated I understand a push to claim it as metaphor etc: however I would contend the only reason, outside of murder and theft, it gained any credence any power and all that money was that the clergy taught people it was exactitude. The more it's pushed as metaphor the more people may find better metaphors, rationality and ultimately better purpose. Hopefully.

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Response to jamtoday (Reply #96)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:07 PM

102. What is what?

Alleged sophistication is no substitute for precision.

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Response to rug (Reply #102)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:32 PM

105. Since

in this reply you prove your own point I can't argue with your point. As to what it actually means is anyone's guess.

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Response to jamtoday (Reply #105)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:39 PM

109. Ok, the revolving door has stopped. After you, sir.

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Response to rug (Reply #109)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:41 PM

111. An old timer like yourself should know


"age before beauty."

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Response to jamtoday (Reply #111)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:47 PM

112. I've earned ever wrinkle.

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Response to rug (Reply #112)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:50 PM

114. Lol

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Response to jamtoday (Reply #91)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:43 PM

99. Your first two words

are unlikely in a Humphreys fan.

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Response to okasha (Reply #99)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:39 PM

110. Ad Hominen

attacks are 67%* more likely to make you popular.


*90% of statistics are made up.

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Response to jamtoday (Reply #110)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 10:25 PM

121. You'd know.

NT

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:46 PM

51. There are other countries where Christians are indeed persecuted

The United States of America, however, is not one of them.

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Response to bluestateguy (Reply #51)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:48 PM

53. Agree and entirely consistent with the author's take on this.

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:47 PM

52. If you're fair minded, gather up an estimate of Muslims killed by Christians and vice versa in

the last 20 years. That's all you need to do.

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Response to dimbear (Reply #52)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:49 PM

54. Do you have those numbers?

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Response to cbayer (Reply #54)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:04 PM

58. I have a fair idea which side of the balance tips down.

Nobody has exact or even close to exact numbers, tho.

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Response to dimbear (Reply #58)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:20 PM

68. I've not seen any numbers to support your position and the article presents

some pretty alarming data.

But either way, this is not a game where one team wins and the other loses. Recognizing that there are casualties on all sides would seem to be what is important, imo.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #68)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:29 AM

75. I'm sure you note the irony of saying this is not a game with winners and losers when your thread

is titled effectively "We're number one in endangeredness!"

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Response to dimbear (Reply #52)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:12 PM

64. so you are saying the oil wars are really about religion?

not the taliban pipeline deal failure in afganistan,saddams oil fields,and saddam`s double crossing cheney on a pipeline deal and last but not least saddam`s threat to base his oil price in euro`.

yup the it`s been all about the christians and the muslims killing each other in a holy war.

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Response to dimbear (Reply #52)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:02 PM

116. The numbers are obfuscated.

This is a telling remark though. "As many as 20,000 Afghans may have lost their lives as an indirect consequence of the US intervention. They too belong in any tally of the dead."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/may/20/afghanistan.comment

Over 100,000 in Iraq since 2003 as well as over 100,000 in operation Desert Storm. There are other estimates that claim over 1,000,000 Iraqi deaths but such figures are very difficult to verify.

Edited to add http://www.projectcensored.org/

A study, published in prestigious medical journal The Lancet, estimated that over 600,000 Iraqis had been killed as a result of the invasion as of July 2006.

http://www.justforeignpolicy.org/iraq

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Response to jamtoday (Reply #116)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 07:46 PM

119. Exactly. And when you begin to note how many of those deaths are children, it just gets too sad.

Thanks for the summary, Jamtoday.

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:53 PM

56. How about indigenous religions?

They're persecuted by both Muslims AND Christians. They have very little political clout or recourse. No large movements pressuring restrictive governments to cut THEM a break.

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Response to AnnieBW (Reply #56)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 09:56 PM

57. Agree. They tend to get marginalized and neglected to a large extent.

As do many groups with smaller populations.

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:06 PM

59. this post is absolutely correct

 

Anyone who knows anything about the Muslim world knows that Christians are often persecuted, attacked, jailed, or even killed in these Muslim-dominated countries. It's a fact. Google it. The treatment of Muslims and other religions by most Christians is very charitable from my experience. After all, Jesus Christ taught us to "love our enemies, and pray for those who persecute you". http://bible.cc/matthew/5-44.htm This is the reason that other religions are not treated poorly in Christian dominated regions of the world.

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:08 PM

61. Is it established that they are being killed for being Christian or is their Christianity simply a

corelate with some other motive for these murders, political? economic?

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Response to patrice (Reply #61)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:12 PM

65. Quite often the persecution is due to leaving Islam

 

Islam does not allow defections to another religion. Those that leave take a risk. Quite often these new Christians that left Islam are persecuted.

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Response to uncommonCents (Reply #65)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:28 PM

70. I can't think of anything to say. It's too much . . . .

I'm not shocked, because I'm not naive about Muslims or anyone else for that matter.

And there really is nothing that can be said about some things that compares at all to the thing/event/experience itself.

One just does reach one's limits in the face of what is not just ineffable, but is actually not even that.

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:08 PM

62. i do feel that Christianity is being discriminated against.

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Response to samsingh (Reply #62)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:14 PM

66. Yes, I agree

 

It's a fact if you really know what is going on. There are thousands of cases. Fox's Book of Martyrs is only the beginning of the roll call of the persecuted.

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Response to uncommonCents (Reply #66)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:53 PM

72. fox book of martyrs ?

that was about the protestants and the catholics murdering each other for political power. it has nothing to do with islam.

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Response to samsingh (Reply #62)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:15 PM

67. it`s hard to be discriminated against when it`s the world`s largest religion

islam is the second largest in the world.

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #67)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 10:26 PM

69. Apparently, if the data in the article is correct, that is not the case.

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #67)

Sun Jan 6, 2013, 11:31 PM

73. Depends on where one lives, I would think.

Christian minorities may not receive much benefit from being members of "the world's largest religion," depending on where they live.

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #67)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 05:05 PM

92. Numbers have nothing to do with the case.

Minority white South Africans managed to discriminate quite effectively against majority black Africans for several hundreed yearss. Comparative wealth and political power are the factors that foster discrimination.

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:44 AM

74. Actually,

The number of Middle Eastern Christians is dropping due to such factors as low birth rates compared with Muslims, extensive emigration and ethnic and religious persecution. It is estimated that at the present rate, the Middle East's 12 million Christians will likely drop to 6 million by the year 2020.

The largest Christian group in the Middle East is the now Arabic-speaking Egyptian ethnoreligious community of Copts, who number 6–11 million people, although Coptic sources claim the figure is closer to 12–16 million. Copts reside in mainly Egypt, with tiny communities in Israel, Cyprus and Jordan.

Arabic-speaking Lebanese Maronites number some 1.1–1.2 million across the Middle East, and often eschew an Arabic identity in favour of a Phoenician-Canaanite heritage.

. . . .

Middle Eastern Christians are relatively wealthy, well educated, and politically moderate, as they have today an active role in various social, economical, sporting and political aspects in the Middle East.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_Middle_East

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:35 AM

76. Atheists are more persecuted. EVERYBODY hate us!

 

In the United States we can't realistically even run for public office. In Muslim countries we are hated just as much, if not more than we are in Christian countries.

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Response to Speck Tater (Reply #76)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 06:13 AM

78. Atheism is not a religion.

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Response to Speck Tater (Reply #76)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 11:20 AM

82. OMG. While there is clearly some prejudice against atheists, you would be hard pressed

to find anything equal to what is described in this article.

Not everyone hates atheists. Atheists do run for office. There is a growing movement that is increasing visibility and acceptance.

Martyrdom has it's attractive points I guess, but in the long run it really doesn't accomplish much.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #82)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 12:17 PM

84. LMFAO!

"Martyrdom has it's attractive points I guess, but in the long run it really doesn't accomplish much."

This coming from the person who posted an article entitled, "The Most Persecuted Religion in the World."

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Response to cbayer (Reply #82)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:24 PM

86. There is a Christian indoctrination center on every thrid street corner.

 

They call them churches.

We will have true equality when there is an atheist indoctrination center on every third street corner. Hell, I'd settle for every tenth street corner!

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Response to Speck Tater (Reply #86)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:30 PM

87. That's ridiculous.

There will be true equality when there is representation equal to the population, which is no where close to every tenth street corner.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #87)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 01:36 PM

88. Sometimes sarcasm is its own reward.

 

Chill, dude. It's a joke.

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Response to Speck Tater (Reply #88)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:03 PM

89. Not a dude, but not always good at picking up sarcasm. Sorry about that.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #89)

Mon Jan 7, 2013, 02:45 PM

90. Sorry. Dudette then. ;-) nt

 

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Response to cbayer (Reply #82)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:49 PM

126. Only because there are less atheists to persecute.

So naturally the numbers would never come close to what happens to Christians or one of the other major religions. Overall religious and intelectual freedom covers everybody though.

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Fri Jan 11, 2013, 06:55 PM

125. Islam is the most persecuted religion in America, and the world.

Kelly James Clark fails to comprehend WHY Christians are being persecuted by radical Muslims in the Mid-East.

It is in reaction to the "Christian Dominionism" demonstrated by the "religious right" in America during the last 30 years, which has been Pro-Israel and Anti-Muslim.

From Pat Robertson to James Hagee to Franklin Graham, the leaders of the "religious right" have been claiming that Islam is a "wicked" religion. George W. Bush's "religious" advisers told him that war on Iraq would fulfill a prophecy in the book of Revelation about war on "Gog and Magog," which they think is a Muslim in Muslim countries. So NO WONDER some Muslims have reacted.

When you consider that, it makes sense. And when you look at the reality of people being persecuted because of their religion, Muslims in America are the most persecuted, by people who claim to be Christians.

Just listen to this song: http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=9687461
.

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Response to SarahM32 (Reply #125)

Sat Jan 12, 2013, 10:57 PM

127. I don't think this part is true at all.

"It is in reaction to the "Christian Dominionism" demonstrated by the "religious right" in America during the last 30 years, which has been Pro-Israel and Anti-Muslim."

I can see how someone might believe this if they know nothing of the prior 1300-1400 years of middle east history though.

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