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Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:02 PM

Is there any difference between "we kicked god out of schools" and "human unfaithfulness caused it"?

Any difference at all?

Because both have been asserted by serious theologians as the reason for the shooting in CT. The first by right wing evangelicals and the latter by a liberal/progressive clergy person right here on DU.

12 replies, 1131 views

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Reply Is there any difference between "we kicked god out of schools" and "human unfaithfulness caused it"? (Original post)
cleanhippie Dec 2012 OP
trotsky Dec 2012 #1
EvilAL Dec 2012 #2
Iggo Dec 2012 #12
madrchsod Dec 2012 #3
cleanhippie Dec 2012 #4
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #8
beam me up scottie Dec 2012 #5
dimbear Dec 2012 #6
backscatter712 Dec 2012 #7
ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #9
mr blur Dec 2012 #10
LeftishBrit Dec 2012 #11

Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:08 PM

1. Not really.

Both come from the same mindset - namely, that this tragedy occurred because we aren't properly honoring or following the god of the person who said it. It's a disgusting and foul idea and I long for the day when it's recognized as the pure religious bigotry it is.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:09 PM

2. Seems to be god's fault either way.

In the first case, god is a pissed off brat so low on self-esteem that he allows it to happen, in the second he punishes us for being the humans he created.

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Response to EvilAL (Reply #2)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 11:54 AM

12. Yep, I like The Big Guy for these murders.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:41 PM

3. "god" really does`t have anything to do with it

this was an act of a mentally ill person that killed innocence women and children

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 02:42 PM

4. I agree 100%. It's too bad that many don't see it that way.

Especially the religious.

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Response to madrchsod (Reply #3)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:47 PM

8. I agree.

Here's the blunt, blunt, blunt version of my theology as it relates to this disaster.

Q: Why did an all-loving God allow this tragedy to fall upon a bunch of children?

A: Because he doesn't exist. People made him up.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:08 PM

5. The definition of man's unfaithfulness used in a religious context is fairly well known.

Just Google 'man's unfaithfulness to God'.

Both assertions place the blame squarely on unbelievers.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:23 PM

6. I will lift up my eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help

Psalm 121

I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.

2 My help cometh from the Lord, which made heaven and earth.

3 He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.

4 Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.

5 The Lord is thy keeper: the Lord is thy shade upon thy right hand.

6 The sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the moon by night.

7 The Lord shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.

8 The Lord shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.

Consider carefully whom you select as an imaginary aide, some are more trustworthy than others.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Tue Dec 18, 2012, 07:43 PM

7. I don't see much to distinguish them.

Both of them are essentially saying that an omnipotent, omniscient, ever-loving and all-good, but jealous, petty and butthurt deity is mad because we're not kissing his ass enough, and is taking his anger out by allowing little children to be slaughtered.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 02:59 AM

9. Probably not. nt

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 08:03 AM

10. In a real sense, none at all.

In fact, "we kicked god out of schools" is at least honest in its bigotry.

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Response to cleanhippie (Original post)

Wed Dec 19, 2012, 10:04 AM

11. Yes, I think so.

The second is saying that it is a symptom of human immorality. The first is at best saying much more specifically that lack of religion in schools caused this immorality, and at worst, that God allowed children to be murdered out of anger at not being made part of the school curriculum (which makes God sound something like the wicked fairy in The Sleeping Beauty!)

In this case, I would disagree with the second view as well, because the shooter was clearly not subject to social norms, good or bad, and was acting out of some form of derangement. It may indeed be a symptom of a broader evil in society that he had such ready access to a gun, but I don't think you can attribute such frightening violence to a general problem in society, culture, or even humanity as a whole.

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