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Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:18 PM

This message was self-deleted by its author

This message was self-deleted by its author (struggle4progress) on Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:25 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

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Arrow 25 replies Author Time Post
Reply This message was self-deleted by its author (Original post)
struggle4progress Dec 2012 OP
rrneck Dec 2012 #1
ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #2
cbayer Dec 2012 #3
Jim__ Dec 2012 #4
Renew Deal Dec 2012 #5
ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #6
Renew Deal Dec 2012 #7
cleanhippie Dec 2012 #9
ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #12
rug Dec 2012 #15
struggle4progress Dec 2012 #11
ZombieHorde Dec 2012 #13
cbayer Dec 2012 #14
No Vested Interest Dec 2012 #18
cbayer Dec 2012 #22
cleanhippie Dec 2012 #8
struggle4progress Dec 2012 #10
cleanhippie Dec 2012 #16
struggle4progress Dec 2012 #17
cleanhippie Dec 2012 #19
struggle4progress Dec 2012 #20
cbayer Dec 2012 #23
Goblinmonger Dec 2012 #21
struggle4progress Dec 2012 #24
struggle4progress Dec 2012 #25

Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:22 PM

1. Nah. Works for me. nt

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:26 PM

2. I think so.

I think we should specifically include philosophy and religious music and art (including critiques).

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 04:47 PM

3. I can support that.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 05:09 PM

4. Absolutely agree!

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #2)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:25 PM

5. My feeling is that music and art are included by default.

We have never locked those.

What do you mean by "philosophy?"

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #5)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:30 PM

6. Holy shit! A pirate!

Oh, it's just you.

I mean Socrates, Hakim Bey, etc. I think religion and philosophy are interlinked.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #6)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 09:46 PM

7. I don't have an issue with that

I'm not sure how others feel. I don't know if people are looking for a concentration on religion/non-religion/theology, or will tolerate more topics. I also wonder if people here to discuss philosophy may become offended by the sometimes contentious discussion about religion. I took a quick look around DU and didn't see another philosophy group.

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Response to Renew Deal (Reply #5)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:49 AM

9. I guess we will see...

I've got lots of religiously themed music vids I'd like to post. I'm sure they will not be well received by some of our theist friends, but I would expect that the posts do not get locked.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:23 PM

12. We've been allowing religiously themed music, so go ahead and post them. nt

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:40 PM

15. I hope they're better than your "religiously themed" cartoons.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:18 PM

11. Well, if you think the SoP needs revision, propose some revised text

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:26 PM

13. OK. How about...

Discuss religious, theological, and philosophical issues. All relevant topics are permitted, including music and art. Believers, non-believers, and everyone in-between are welcome.

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Response to ZombieHorde (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:36 PM

14. I like it. I would be inclined to add something about respect, civility and trying to have

an open mind about how others see the world.

But that's just me.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:36 AM

18. Agree re respect and civility

I'm fairly new to the group, but find some of the back and forth in disagreement a little juvenile.

I don't see any need to "prove a point." This forum, and most any forum, is about expressing one's own thoughts, opinions, feelings. If another doesn't like it, so be it - one doesn't have to agree with or like everything another posts. Just move on. Don't take your own opinion so seriously - no one else does.

Some of the postings are of no interest to me, and I don't even bother to read them.

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Response to No Vested Interest (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:06 PM

22. A little juvenile, lol? That's a major understatement.

The good news is that those that regularly participate compromise only a very small group and can easily be ignored.

Welcome to the religion group, no vested interest. There are lots of good and very interesting people who frequent here and you can have respectful and civil discussions, even with those with whom you may strongly disagree.

And, like I said, it's relatively easy to avoid the threads where it becomes a blood sport where someone just has to win.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:45 AM

8. How about just following the SoP as it stands. Several of YOUR posts lately have been off-topic

yet still remain. Your a HOST. If you are unable to abide by the rules that you are supposed to be enforcing, perhaps you need to step down.

Yet if those posts (the music videos) are OK with the rest of the hosts and are to be allowed, then let everyone know. I've got TONS of religiously themed videos that I will be posting.

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 02:07 PM

10. We had several long discussions in this group about a year back, in which IIRC it was determined

that (1) people generally prefer the group to be hosted with the lightest hand and (2) in cases of possible disagreement, people really want the various hosts with their different PoV to agree uniformly before taking action

Our general practice has therefore been to tolerate whatever has some religious connection: philosophical and metaphysical discussions have been allowed, as well as (say) a multi-posted story about a mentally ill man who gouged out his own eyes in church

I have been posting occasional music in this group for some time, since even before we concluded our discussions last year on group hosting, and IIRC such posts weren't controversial when we discussed group hosting last year:

struggle4progress (69,001 posts)
Fri Dec 9, 2011, 10:13 PM
Atheist Christmas Carol (Vienna Teng)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1218119

Renew Deal (55,541 posts)
Wed Dec 14, 2011, 11:03 AM
Religion Group Hosts Proposal (Please vote by Thursday at 11:59PM EST).
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12181110

Of course, if participants in the group object to current hosting standards, we could review that. The particular problem, of what to do with possibly inappropriate host posts, could also be discussed. Under currently agreed upon group standards here, the lead host can remove any other host, provided all the other hosts agree to the removal

When posts of mine are alerted here, I (being a group host) typically offer in the group host forum to self-delete my post IF the other hosts of this group reach consensus that my post is inappropriate. That is, for example, the route I took with your alerts on my recent threads

Veni Veni Emmanuel
http://www.democraticunderground.com/124332010

and

Coventry carol
http://www.democraticunderground.com/124333078

In both cases, at least three of the other four hosts weighed in, stating they did not regard the post as problematic, so I did not self delete

You do, of course, have options for managing your personal DU experience, should you find it extraordinarily distressing to be surprised by some religious music in the Religion group: for example, you can avoid clicking the embedded video link, in which case you will never hear the music; or you can make use, now and then, of the hide-thread feature, which will eliminate the discomfort you may experience when repeatedly viewing hymn titles shown to you without your consent; or (more extremely, I suppose) you could deploy the ignore feature, so that you would never have to notice any of my posts about guns or hymns or voter registration or wikileaks

And if you prefer not to employ any of those alternatives, you could at least try to explain clearly exactly what manner of posts you think should or should not be allowed in this group



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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:04 PM

16. You know, you had me until the condescending personal diatribe on how I could better my DU experienc

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Response to cleanhippie (Reply #16)

Sun Dec 16, 2012, 11:52 PM

17. I don't understand the problem with religious music. As I tried to say before, if it bothers you

you can either try to avoid encountering it, or you can try to explain to the community here why the group should be hosted differently than it is currently hosted

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:55 AM

19. I'm standing by my previous comments.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:28 AM

20. It seems to me this issue garners Much Meh from most inhabitants here

So far we've have one person weigh in to say it's fine as it is, several hosts with a couple of others citizens wanting an expanded SoP to reflect current hosting practice, and one person opposing musical posts (but then later posting music in the forum shortly afterwards)

I'm gonna leave this pinned a while longer, but if no further interest develops soon, I'm gonna unpin and then self-delete, figuring that the hosts who want an expanded SoP can start a more focussed pinned thread on that

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:08 PM

23. I fully support that. In general, I think things are going fine.

The only real reason to change the SOP would be to no longer have to deal with alerts. But they aren't really about music anyway and would likely continue for some other reason.

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 11:37 AM

21. I think we need a clearer policy about meta discussion

and a clearer approach by the mods. Some meta is allowed and some is not. Tends to be, from my experience, based on who is posting it.

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Response to Goblinmonger (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 12:13 PM

24. IIRC we hardly ever see meta discussion here

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Response to struggle4progress (Original post)

Mon Dec 17, 2012, 02:24 PM

25. OP REPOSTED FOR RECORD HERE PRIOR TO UNPINNING AND SELF-DELETE:

Does the SoP for this group need to be revised?
And are there any complaints regarding how the group is currently moderated or suggestions about how the group should be moderated differently?

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