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Thu Nov 29, 2012, 05:22 PM

 

Does the Universe Have a Purpose? feat. Neil deGrasse Tyson

Neil deGrasse Tyson was asked by the Templeton Foundation to answer the question "Does the Universe Have a Purpose". Then he read his answer aloud and I drew some pictures for it. http://www.templeton.org/purpose


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Reply Does the Universe Have a Purpose? feat. Neil deGrasse Tyson (Original post)
HarveyDarkey Nov 2012 OP
patrice Nov 2012 #1
tama Nov 2012 #10
longship Nov 2012 #2
tama Nov 2012 #11
longship Nov 2012 #12
tama Nov 2012 #13
longship Nov 2012 #14
tama Nov 2012 #15
tama Nov 2012 #16
jody Nov 2012 #3
patrice Nov 2012 #5
patrice Nov 2012 #4
cbayer Nov 2012 #9
cbayer Nov 2012 #6
HarveyDarkey Nov 2012 #7
cbayer Nov 2012 #8

Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 05:27 PM

1. I will watch this, but it's its own purpose isn't it? nt

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Response to patrice (Reply #1)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:08 PM

10. Yes we are nt

 

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 05:33 PM

2. Just total indifference.

The universe is what the universe is. Those looking for a purpose may as well go to the seashore and look for a porpoise. At least that would be fun and might find for the individual, a personal purpose. Maybe the person will go on with life without wringing their hands about any universal purposes.

That's how much the universe cares about human purpose.

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Response to longship (Reply #2)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:13 PM

11. Except that

 

Universe as we know it is human creation; as are the values and intentions of lack of them that we attach to the notion.

Universe an sich? Philosophical poop.

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Response to tama (Reply #11)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 10:32 PM

12. Well, the universe existed...

for billions of years without Earth life and will exist for many billions of years after Earth life has gone buh-bye.

Sounds an aweful lot like indifference to me. The universe is its own entity and exists as it is regardless of intelligent agents.

But that's just the way science kind of sees it from what it sees. You may disagree, but that's the way I see it as well.

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Response to longship (Reply #12)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:03 PM

13. Just big numbers

 

which somehow mere mortals are supposed to regard with awe and feel insignificant in comparison. There are also other big numbers, like the number of cells in human body, and the Biggest Number in Nature which is the number of all possible neurological states of human brain (Holderness number 10^70,000,000,000,000).

"The universe is its own entity and exists as it is regardless of intelligent agents." is a bog of philosophical and metaphysical presumptions, turned into materialistic belief system into classical physics by many, but as such it has little do with contemporary theoretical physics and questions about anthropic principle and the notion of time of Quantum and post-quantum physics. Can you prove what you said?

Meaning that you are not speaking in the name of science, just about your own belief systems.

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Response to tama (Reply #13)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:16 AM

14. Well, I AM a materialist...

meaning that the universe very much seems to be made of baryonic matter (material) which very much seems to obey predictive rules to an extremely high degrees of precision.

I do not, as you say, believe in this as I have no dog in the hunt. On the other hand I certainly do not deny methods which work so well at describing the various behaviors we observe.

I do not wish to get into a philosophical debate here, or anywhere. I accept methodological materialism and will have no part of philosophical materialism.

The universe is what the universe is.

Have a nice day, my friend.

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Response to longship (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 04:58 AM

15. Universe

 

of standard modell (etc. theories) is a theory dependent universe - giving the concept of "matter" a theory dependent definition. Theories which are constantly challenged by new experimental data: http://idealab.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/11/large-hadron-collider-may-have-produced-new-matter.php?ref=fpb

And theories depend from the set of basic assumptions they make - ideas (e.g. causality and linear time). There is no distinction between "materialism" and "idealism" in scientific praxis; or rather any attempt to create and uphold such ontological divide in intellectual self deception.

I don't mean to imply this is news to you, just worth of repeating and reminding, IMHO.

Also the various "spiritual" practices - including martial arts - I'm familiar with very much agree that as the "spiritual journey" advances, it becomes more "material" in the sense of "material" body-sense changes (and chatter of intellectual thought-definitions and identities matter less and less), not to classical matter but perhaps - and this is a cautious hypothesis - to what could perhaps in scientific terms could resemble magnetic fields with no clear boundaries. As fascinating it can be to speculate such connections, body-sense of self is as feels and is. Also in the state where there is no separation of self and universe.

Happy day for you also, friend.

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Response to longship (Reply #14)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 05:16 AM

16. PS:

 

In scientific terminology I wouldn't mind stating that the purpose of universe is each and every quantum measurement event - the exact nature of which remains mystery to established theories, but still. That as a minimum purpose, not necessarily limited to those. Just another way of saying that the purpose of universe is itself, in other words.

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 05:33 PM

3. Only the creator can have a purpose, not the thing created. nt

 

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Response to jody (Reply #3)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 05:44 PM

5. ... and, therefore, only what we call a God could say that. nt

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 05:34 PM

4. He! He! "MORE POOP!!!" . . . fertilizer for more poop. I think that's somewhere in an

underground classic by Piers Anthony from back in this '60s, called Macroscope:

http://books.google.com/books/about/Macroscope.html?id=KxFjof4XoSQC

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Response to patrice (Reply #4)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:12 PM

9. I liked that part too. Does poop have a purpose?

Well, yes it does. So, does the bacteria in your gut have a purpose?

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Original post)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 05:51 PM

6. Well done. I really like NDT and his way of explaining things and "Not Sure"

is a good answer, imo. Some of the other answers at the link are also interesting.

Did you draw the pictures for this?

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Response to cbayer (Reply #6)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:03 PM

7. I did not

 

I'm subscribed to him on Facebook & he just posted it was on You Tube,

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Response to HarveyDarkey (Reply #7)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 06:11 PM

8. Oh, ok. I didn't see the video on the linked site and

thought maybe you put it together.

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