Religion
Related: About this forumAnnoying atheist clichés
Christian author Christian Piatt recently wrote a series of articles on Christian Clichés To Avoid, which generated quite a bit of buzz in both the Christian and atheist blogospheres. It was a great read, even if (maybe even particularly if) youre an atheist.
It was so good, in fact, it prompted me to start this series on atheist clichés we should also avoid.
These are a basically things I hear from other atheists all the time, in some cases even highly prominent figures in the atheist community. Some are weak arguments against religion (where similar but much stronger arguments exist). Some are statements that atheists make in an attempt to defend atheism, yet actually downplay the atheist position or even implicitly marginalize atheists overall. And some are simply things which are flat-out, demonstrably false.
I dont believe in God. Theres obviously nothing wrong with saying this in casual contexts, particularly in the company of other atheists. But the problem is the way believe can be interpreted as whether you support a particular position, not just whether you believe in its existence. One can say they dont believe in the death penalty, for example, but that says nothing about whether they believe the death penalty exists. And as absurd as that interpretation may sound, it plays directly into the mindset of countless religionists who claim that atheists know deep down that God exists, but we simply choose to reject Him. Also notice how the wording is subtly yet inherently biased in theists (particularly monotheists) favor, while making the subtle presupposition that the existence of their godparticularly the Judeo-Christian Godis somehow the default position. Thats why I prefer the slightly more wordy (but far more accurate) I dont believe in the existence of any gods (of course, if you really want to get under a theists skin, theres also I dont believe in the existence of your god).
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The rest here: http://deusxed.wordpress.com/2012/11/10/atheist-cliches-to-avoid-part-1/
freshwest
(53,661 posts)The 'my team is better than yours' routine is not likely to get anything done but harden the two sides against each other. As a former believer, now atheist, it was not the words of those claiming superior reasoning or intelligence that influenced me into shedding religion.
It was my own comprehension that I was being held back from my full potential with the belief system I had taken in to perceive reality and myself. I don't apologize for it as it was a journey I had to make. As I grew in strength, some of the matrix, now translated into other forms, remains valuable.
My focus is, in many ways, what it always was, on freedom of thought, belief and life, not a brand of any kind. I will not be talked down to by strangers who have not walked in my shoes.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)thereby creating a philosophical stance that we can all stand behind without unnecessary division.
trotsky
(49,533 posts)Especially about falling into the trap of religionist language and themes. I felt no sense of loss when I "lost" my faith - on the contrary, it was a welcome and liberating experience.
But in the criticism of the "slay my enemies before me" reference, the author neglects to note who the king in the parable is supposed to be.
And when people talk about my "lack of religion", I feel like yelling at them "I ain't lacking shit!"
But I don't.
rug
(82,333 posts)This post notwithstanding.
I welcome all others.
Usually, the more frequent the cliche and the stereotype, the less free thinking I find. That is rather annoying.
dimbear
(6,271 posts)OTOH, if you click thru to page 4 and take his advice on "Irrevocable Salvation" you're mostly going to get blank stares. Might be different in Texas, tho.
There's plenty of ammo, no sense lugging it back to camp.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)This is not a battle in which one side wins and the other loses. All this does is promote division and does nothing to encourage better understanding, tolerance and inclusion.
Phillip McCleod
(1,837 posts)more like talking points -- simplified summaries of positions intended to elicit a reaction or spur debate. besides theres nothing wrong with cliches if they aren't too cliche. frankly vocal atheists are rare enough in history that almost nothing we say could really be called a cliche. 'you cant teach an old dog new tricks' now thats a cliche.
i see no reason to avoid most of these talking points.