HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Religion & Spirituality » Religion (Group) » Woman dies after abortion...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:13 PM

Woman dies after abortion request 'refused' at Galway hospital.

The husband of a pregnant woman who died in an Irish hospital has said he has no doubt she would be alive if she had been allowed an abortion.

Savita Halappanavar's family said she asked several times for her pregnancy to be terminated because she had severe back pain and was miscarrying.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-20321741


This intrusion of religion is outrageous. Staff at the hospital refused on the basis that Ireland is a Catholic country. She wasn't Catholic and her baby wasn't Catholic. Now they are both dead, hopefully not in vain.

28 replies, 2045 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 28 replies Author Time Post
Reply Woman dies after abortion request 'refused' at Galway hospital. (Original post)
Starboard Tack Nov 2012 OP
skepticscott Nov 2012 #1
MineralMan Nov 2012 #20
cbayer Nov 2012 #2
Starboard Tack Nov 2012 #4
cbayer Nov 2012 #6
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #13
cbayer Nov 2012 #16
Dorian Gray Nov 2012 #21
unblock Nov 2012 #3
HockeyMom Nov 2012 #5
cbayer Nov 2012 #7
HockeyMom Nov 2012 #9
cbayer Nov 2012 #10
Dorian Gray Nov 2012 #22
HockeyMom Nov 2012 #24
Dorian Gray Nov 2012 #25
Mariana Nov 2012 #27
unblock Nov 2012 #28
rug Nov 2012 #8
cbayer Nov 2012 #11
rug Nov 2012 #12
skepticscott Nov 2012 #23
rug Nov 2012 #26
muriel_volestrangler Nov 2012 #14
cbayer Nov 2012 #17
MineralMan Nov 2012 #19
MineralMan Nov 2012 #18
MineralMan Nov 2012 #15

Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:16 PM

1. Any bets on how long it will be

before apologists on this board step up to defend this?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to skepticscott (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:06 PM

20. Let them. I'm ready to debate them.

I'm sure others are as well. What happened is indefensible.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:26 PM

2. While this is tragic, I am not going to jump to conclusions here until there is more data.

Abortion is legal in Ireland when there is a threat to the life of the mother. While their laws are an abomination right now, the medical staff could have proceeded if they deemed her life to be in danger.

Apparently they did not. Why that is is not clear.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cbayer (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 01:00 PM

4. Here's a little more info.

“The doctor told us the cervix was fully dilated, amniotic fluid was leaking and unfortunately the baby wouldn’t survive.” The doctor, he says, said it should be over in a few hours. There followed three days, he says, of the foetal heartbeat being checked several times a day.

“Savita was really in agony. She was very upset, but she accepted she was losing the baby. When the consultant came on the ward rounds on Monday morning Savita asked if they could not save the baby could they induce to end the pregnancy. The consultant said, ‘As long as there is a foetal heartbeat we can’t do anything’.

“Again on Tuesday morning, the ward rounds and the same discussion. The consultant said it was the law, that this is a Catholic country. Savita said: ‘I am neither Irish nor Catholic’ but they said there was nothing they could do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #4)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 01:07 PM

6. What is missing here is whether they ever felt the mother's life was in danger.

If they felt it was not, they were bound by law to not proceed.

She died of septicemia several days later, which might indicate that they did not properly remove all the fetal contents after she miscarried. Either way, had she been here, the pregnancy would have been terminated much, much earlier.

I hope this provides some impetus for Ireland to revise their laws.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cbayer (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:07 PM

13. "why" appears to be that they played safe, rather than considering the woman's health

Irish politicians have, extremely cowardly, refused to lay down in law under what circumstances doctors can act to save the life of the woman by performing an abortion. Because they don't care that much about the occasional woman dying, if it helps them avoid a political fight with a bunch of mad extremists (among whom arethe Roman Catholic bishops). And some craven doctors, like this collection of wastes of oxygen, can't be bothered to stand up for saving lives.

Here's hoping they have criminal charges laid against them. And here's hoping the group 'Precious Life' with their sanctimonious "thoughts and prayers were with Ms Halappanavar's family" get shunned by all right-thinking Irish people, and they spend the rest of their lives regretting their decision to support the death of women.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:34 PM

16. Well, this case is getting a serious amount of international intention.

Do you think it might promote some movement in the legislature?

Do they ever perform abortions to save the life of the mother?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cbayer (Reply #16)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 07:38 AM

21. I believe that Catholic Hospitals

in the US would induce if the mother's life was deemed in danger. What happened there was a travesty. Her final moments in life were followed by losing her pregnancy. It's terribly sad. The doctors and the hospitals should reconsider. The law should be reconsidered.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 12:27 PM

3. how do anti-abortionists feel about allowing a c-section to remove the threat to the mother's life,

then working like hell to try to save the life of the baby?

and if the baby then dies, so be it, at least you tried?

or is the thinking that if it's too early for there to be any real chance of the fetus surviving outside the womb, then the mother has to take her chances?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unblock (Reply #3)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 01:06 PM

5. They wouldn't even give me a SONOGRAM for a 5 week embyro in fallopian tube

No IV, No BP monitoring, Only a pregnancy test. My tube had already ruptured, not that there was ANY chance of c-setion on a fallopian tube to "save the baby".

"We don't do ABORTIONS" is what they told me. A simple sonogram would have shown my condition. You cannot abort something that is DEAD already. Plus, even if the embyro was still alive, it simply cannot BE saved. So, I should die, leave my already born daughter motherless, and my husband a widower? For a DEAD EMBRYO?????? "God's Will"? Well, heart attacks are "God's Will" and nothing should be done for them either.

Don't get me started on the Catholic Church.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HockeyMom (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 01:09 PM

7. Did this happen in Ireland?

That sounds like malpractice, if those are the facts. An ectopic pregnancy clearly threatens the life of the mother.

Did you have any options other than a Catholic hospital?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cbayer (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 02:23 PM

9. NYC in 1983

I know many people said I should have sued them. My doctor had ordered all these procedures but they ignored his orders. He had a delivery at the time and came to the hospital after that, SCREAMING at the hospital staff for not following his orders, and leaving me unattended in that bed.

Before he ordered me to get to a hospital ASAP, he tried to get me into his other non-religious hospital but they had no beds. "I hate to do this to you (Catholic Hospital), but you HAVE TO GO ASAP". I had no clue at the time why he said that. Learned very quickly.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HockeyMom (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 02:28 PM

10. I worked in a hospital that did not do abortions.

But we had an absolute policy that a woman who needed one for her own health would be transferred immediately. If a transfer could not take place, then there would be an emergency ethics/physician/administrative meetings. If the mother was in imminent danger, the procedure would take place irregardless of the "rules".

Glad you came out of that ok. Whatever staff did not follow the physicians orders for a sonogram was beyond negligent. A sonogram has nothing to do with abortion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HockeyMom (Reply #9)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 07:40 AM

22. Wow

Which hospital was it? (St Vincents?) I only ask bc I live in NYC and am curious.

I'm so sorry you went through that. The whole experience must have been painful and heartbreaking.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #22)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 09:10 AM

24. St. John's in Elmhurst, Queens

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to HockeyMom (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 09:58 AM

25. Ah

My husband is from queens and used to teach in Elmhurst. So sorry you went through this at all. It's terrible. I'm glad your doctor came back and reamed out the staff. Going through a miscarriage is difficult. Going through it with a hospital staff who won't help you in your pain is inconceivable to me.

(I had a miscarriage in 2009. I know how much it sucks. Luckily, the hospital where I was seen by doctors performed a D&C without any questions.)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to unblock (Reply #3)

Sat Nov 17, 2012, 09:06 PM

27. Doing a C-section on a woman whose life is in danger

is probably extremely dangerous to the woman in most cases. A C-section is major surgery. It really can't be a good idea to go cutting into someone with, say, a raging infection, or wildly high or low blood pressure. Not that I'm an expert, but that sure sounds like malpractice to me.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Mariana (Reply #27)

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 05:07 PM

28. well i'm not suggesting it except where it's deemed appropriate in terms of the woman's health.

presumably at least the risk of the woman dying without either c-section or inducing would be taken into account.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 02:15 PM

8. "Her husband told the BBC that it was refused because there was a foetal heartbeat."

If the fetus was dead, it would not be an abortion.

I don't get it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rug (Reply #8)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 02:29 PM

11. If there was a fetal heartbeat, then the fetus was not dead and it would

be an abortion.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cbayer (Reply #11)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 02:30 PM

12. Ah, I misread it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rug (Reply #8)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 08:57 AM

23. And right on cue

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to skepticscott (Reply #23)

Thu Nov 15, 2012, 03:27 PM

26. Meaning?

Come now, scottie, no need to be coy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:09 PM

14. "She spent three days in agonising pain, eventually shaking, vomiting and passing out"

"This is a Catholic country," was what Irish doctors told Savita Halappanavar after she learned she was miscarrying her pregnancy and asked for an abortion to avoid further complications. She spent three days in agonising pain, eventually shaking, vomiting and passing out. She again asked for an abortion and was refused, because the foetus still had a heartbeat.

Then she died.

She died of septicaemia and E Coli. She died after three and a half days of excruciating pain. She died after repeatedly begging for an end to the pregnancy that was poisoning her. Her death would have been avoided if she had been given an abortion when she asked for it – when it was clear she was miscarrying, and that non-intervention would put her at risk. But the foetus, which had no chance of survival, still had a heartbeat. Its right to life quite literally trumped hers.
...
Just two months ago, a consortium of Irish doctors got together to declare abortion medically unnecessary. They claimed that abortion is never needed to save a pregnant woman's life, and stated: "We confirm that the prohibition of abortion does not affect, in any way, the availability of optimal care to pregnant women."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/14/savita-halappanavar-medically-unnecessary-death


Those doctors should be struck off. They are a literal danger to their patients.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:43 PM

17. Those that participated in that *consortium* should have their licenses revoked.

What they concluded is blatant bullshit.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to cbayer (Reply #17)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 04:04 PM

19. I'm very sure they were advised by RCC

hierarchy on this. It should go beyond license revocation, in my opinion. The woman begged for her life and they refused and watched her die of septicemia. How can any decent human being do that? And the woman was neither Irish nor Catholic. They murdered someone over dogma. Utterly reprehensible and untenable logically. Inhuman.

The entire thing is an obscenity.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to muriel_volestrangler (Reply #14)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:50 PM

18. They should not just be struck off. They should serve lengthy prison sentences,

along with any church officials who advised them in their consortium. This is the 21st Century, not the Middle Ages. We know how to save the lives of women like this Hindu woman. She was murdered, even after begging for her life. Obscene.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Original post)

Wed Nov 14, 2012, 03:28 PM

15. As I said in GD, A Pox on the Roman Catholic Church for

this travesty. Their dogma has killed yet another woman who was not even a Catholic. It is obscene, un-Christian, and the people involved in this should be charged with murder. Her life could have been saved. Now she is dead, at the hands of dogmatic hypocrites.

A Pox on the Dogma That Killed This Woman!

Please. If any Catholic on this forum wishes to debate this, I will be happy to take them on. These abominations should result in prison terms for everyone involved, including any church leaders who advised that women who were dying from a miscarriage should not have the fetus aborted. Whether that advice was for this particular case or general, they share responsibility for this poor Hindu woman's death. Her death is an obscenity, and is due purely to Roman Catholic dogma.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread