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Wed Oct 24, 2012, 04:16 PM

If you pray to your deity for one outcome and I pray to the same deity for the opposite outcome...

and I "win" does that mean that the deity likes me better? Or does it mean that you were on the losing side to begin with?

Also, If you pray to one particular deity for a particular outcome and I pray to a different deity for a different outcome and I win, does that mean that my deity is better than your deity?


Questions inspired by facebook "friends" and family saying that the only thing they do now is go to Pray-Ins for this election at their church. They've already stated that if they lose it's because it is all part of God's plan and is punishment for something or other.

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Reply If you pray to your deity for one outcome and I pray to the same deity for the opposite outcome... (Original post)
NightWatcher Oct 2012 OP
nichomachus Oct 2012 #1
cbayer Oct 2012 #4
nichomachus Oct 2012 #6
cbayer Oct 2012 #7
dmallind Oct 2012 #12
cbayer Oct 2012 #13
dmallind Oct 2012 #14
cbayer Oct 2012 #15
Angry Dragon Oct 2012 #21
cbayer Oct 2012 #25
Angry Dragon Oct 2012 #26
cbayer Oct 2012 #27
trotsky Oct 2012 #30
cbayer Oct 2012 #2
rug Oct 2012 #3
lebkuchen Oct 2012 #5
cloudbase Oct 2012 #8
beam me up scottie Oct 2012 #9
struggle4progress Oct 2012 #10
trotsky Oct 2012 #16
struggle4progress Oct 2012 #17
trotsky Oct 2012 #20
rexcat Oct 2012 #23
russspeakeasy Oct 2012 #11
mrsadm Oct 2012 #18
dimbear Oct 2012 #19
Angry Dragon Oct 2012 #22
mr blur Oct 2012 #24
LeftishBrit Oct 2012 #28
MineralMan Oct 2012 #29
ZombieHorde Oct 2012 #31
jeepnstein Oct 2012 #32

Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 04:20 PM

1. Here's how it works if you're a Christian

If you pray for an outcome and you get it, God loves you and approves of you.

If you pray for an outcome and don't get it, God loves you, approves or you, but is testing you.

If another person prays for an outcome and doesn't get it, God hates him.

If another person prays for something and gets it, you slash his tires.

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Response to nichomachus (Reply #1)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 04:22 PM

4. That may be true for a narrowly defined set of christians, but it is inaccurate

to say that that is the way it works for all christians.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #4)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 04:23 PM

6. It certainly isn't true of all Christians, but

The set it's true for is far from "narrow."

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Response to nichomachus (Reply #6)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 04:25 PM

7. What percentage would you imagine that is?

I know I have seen some statistics relating to this particular concept, but I can't recall the percentage.

At any rate, when we don't distinguish, we do many a disservice by lumping all christians in with fundamentalists.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #7)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 04:53 PM

12. Well in my adult lifetime it was 93%

I SUPPOSE it's barely possible that somehow after 3800 years of Judaism and nigh 2000 of Christianity, that percentage may have suddenly dropped in less than 3 decades, but without data from more recent polls I can't say.

http://articles.latimes.com/1986-12-20/news/ss-4398_1_answers-prayers

"...93% believe that God hears and answers prayers"

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Response to dmallind (Reply #12)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 05:02 PM

13. That's a high number and I what I find more recently is still up

there in the 70% range.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #13)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 05:08 PM

14. Cite would be interesting. Sudden drop there.

Not complaining obviously, but either one of them screwed up the poll or there is a massive drop in belief in intercessory prayer that is way outstripping the drop in similarly naive beliefs such as creationism or a literal Satan.

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Response to dmallind (Reply #14)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 05:17 PM

15. Fox poll and specific to prayers about sickness/health

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/09/fox-poll-77-percent-believe-prayer-can-literally-help-someone-heal-from-an-injury-or-illness.php

The difference may be that the poll you cite asks a very broad question and this one is more specific. The first also doesn't ask if people think prayers can result in an action, while this does.

It doesn't look like Pew has asked this question, or if they have, I can't find it.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #7)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 02:14 AM

21. fundamentalists are as Christian as any other Christian

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #21)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 11:51 AM

25. But not all christians are fundamentalists.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #25)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:03 PM

26. Are you saying not all Christians are equal??

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Response to Angry Dragon (Reply #26)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 12:49 PM

27. No. I am saying that not all christians are the same.

You know, like not all gay people are the same , or not all white people are the same or not all people from Kentucky are the same.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #27)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 08:41 PM

30. Did anyone make that claim?

You're very good at blasting people for things they didn't say.

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Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 04:20 PM

2. Are you a person who believes that a deity hears and directly answers your requests?

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Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 04:21 PM

3. It means neither of us has a clue about prayer.

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Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 04:23 PM

5. I'm praying that the San Francisco Giants beat the Detroit Tigers

However, I suggest both teams booze it up the night before the big games since it's all in god's hands anyway. Why try?

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Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 04:25 PM

8. God answers all prayers.

Most of the time, the answer is "NO."

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Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 04:26 PM

9. Oh boy!

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Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 04:33 PM

10. Not all of us regard our religions as cosmic vending machines

into which we can drop magic prayer tokens to collect sweet treats

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #10)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 05:25 PM

16. Not all, but most US Christians do.

It seems a lot of DU Christians are woefully out of touch with what the majority of Christians in the US believe.

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Response to trotsky (Reply #16)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 06:49 PM

17. You carry around a lot of baggage in the form of stereotypes about people you've never met

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #17)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 08:11 PM

20. I carry around data from surveys I've read.

Such as the ones cited above, where a majority state that they believe in a god who grants wishes.

Just because you're out of touch with what your fellow Christians really believe is no reason to be nasty to me.

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Response to struggle4progress (Reply #10)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 09:44 AM

23. For the most part...

I would say that most religious people do pray therefore people who pray, at some level, buy into the concept or why pray in the first place. That said some people will pray to be a better person or want a better world but my guess is they also pray to their god(s) as a bargaining chip.

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Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 04:51 PM

11. If the other side wins, you didn't donate enough.

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Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 07:00 PM

18. Whose side is God on?

I think it was Napoleon who said,
God is on the side of the big battalions.

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Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Wed Oct 24, 2012, 07:46 PM

19. Did you remember to include a stamped self addressed envelope? n/t

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Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 02:15 AM

22. So many gods

or it is just one god with unlimited faces

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Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 11:11 AM

24. Nothing wrong with talking to yourself, I guess, if it makes you feel better.

If you do it nice and quietly, the rest of us won't even know when to laugh.

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Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 01:41 PM

28. I remember that after the 2006 Senate elections...

someone posted a picture of Rick Santorum making his concession speech surrounded by his grieving family, which was headed SADNESS, and had the comment underneath, 'Because sometimes someone else prays twice as hard for the opposite result'/

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Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Thu Oct 25, 2012, 08:15 PM

29. That deity has outsourced its prayer center to a high-rise call center in Mumbai.

To pray, please dial 1-866-NOW-PRAY

If you wish to pray in English, please press 1 now. Para Espaņol, oprima dos ahora, por favor.

<Boop>

I'm sorry. All of our prayer takers are busy with other prayers at the moment. Please remain on the line and a prayer representative will be with you shortly. Your prayer is very important to us.

<Click>

"Hello. My name is being Biff. You may be speaking any prayer at this time. Someone will be calling you back presently with a response. If this is an emergency prayer, please be striking with a hammer on your head to restore your brain to its manufacturer's default settings. Please be caution-taking, however, since you may experience some loss of personal data. After speaking your prayer, you may disconnect your telephone receiver and be waiting for a response."

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Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 09:51 AM

31. This would be interesting to propose to a group of people who worshiped a

"vending machine" type of god. I would be interested in what they had to say.

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Response to NightWatcher (Original post)

Fri Oct 26, 2012, 11:17 AM

32. I just pray for the strength and wisdom and courage to handle the situation.

And I've had that prayer answered when I do my part. I figure there's really no sense in me bothering God with all these silly requests for winning lottery numbers or whatever. If He wants me to have it he'll send it my way. What I need to do is work on my listening skills so I don't miss the opportunity when it arises. Why should I go around asking God to treat me better than the next guy? It's not like I mean more to Him than anyone else.

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