What Bible are Christians who equate “success” with “wealth” reading? Not mine!

In fact, that Randian philosophy is the antithesis of what I perceive christianity to be.

That's from the Bible I know. I understand that is one of the Kennedy family's guiding philosophies.

from wikipedia:

The Prayer of Jabez: Breaking Through to the Blessed Life is an inspirational Bruce Wilkinson published in 2000 by Multnomah Books as the first book in the "BreakThrough" book series. It is based on the Old Testament passage 1 Chronicles 4-10

Jabez was more honorable than his brothers. His mother had named him Jabez, saying, "I gave birth to him in pain." Jabez cried out to the God of Israel, saying, "Oh that you would bless me and enlarge my territory! Let your hand be with me, and keep me from harm so that I will be free from pain." And God granted his request. (NIV)

In the book, Wilkinson encourages Christians to invoke this prayer for themselves on a daily basis:

I challenge you to make the Jabez prayer for blessing part of the daily fabric of your life. To do that, I encourage you to follow unwaveringly the plan outlined here for the next thirty days. By the end of that time, you'll be noticing significant changes in your life, and the prayer will be on its way to becoming a treasured, lifelong habit.

The book became an international bestseller, topping the New York Times bestseller list and selling nine million copies. It received the Evangelical Christian Publishers Association Gold Medallion Book of the Year award in 2001.

If you find "prosperity gospel" on wikipedia, you will find a lengthy and fascinating history.

I believe it comes down to different ideas about what constitutes a "Christian life."

he's just a shyster.

I am voting for option #2.

Just my observation, but Prosperity Gospel seems to focus on two types of personalities: people who are desperate to improve a very poor situation (and who can least afford to be throwing dollars at these "preachers") and people like a family who are close friends of ours: they lost everything in the economic collapse of 2008 while attempting to get rich through real estate speculation. Having lived pretty much with the assistance of others over the last four years as they try to dig themselves out, they're now trying to get rich so they can be "vessels" for God to distribute his wealth to others.

And that may be true; and, maybe the underlying motivation is that they still just wanna' get rich.

Life's complicated.

edit: my math sucks...

I thought it was some kind of parody at first, but quickly realized that the guy was serious. I didn't know there was a name for it.

Those most desperate are always the easiest prey, aren't they?

I took away a different message.

than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God (Matthew 19:24, for those inclined to look it up).

It is a part of the exclusionary "chosen people" mindset that dominated religion in New England and became part of the dominate Federalism in the 1800's. It derives from Calvin's peculiar ideas on predestination.

The Roman Church started the problem by merging Empire and official religion. Calvin made it worse.

While we now think of "Old Testament" Christianity primarily regarding the South and Baptists, it wasn't that way in the early 1800's. For example, in NC the main Christian groups were Methodists, Quakers, Moravians, Disciples, early Baptists, Deists, Universalists, etc. -- all free will, non-Calvinist. (Almost all were anti-slavery, too!).

Much more involved story. I have a long article I need to finish and post.

Wealth and riches shall be in his house: and his righteousness endureth for ever.

The concepts of wealth and riches could be about something other than money, if one were not to interpret it quite so literally.

It might also mean that even though wealth and riches come into his house, he remains righteous and is not corrupted by these. Later in the psalm it speaks to him giving it all away.

The key to the Bible's utility.

What, you're going to interpret the verse from within its larger context?! Shame on you...

You're making that up.

Yes, it mentions giving generously (and lending! - so much for giving!), but there is no requirement to give it all away.

So there's biblical justification for the prosperity gospel. Just depends on how you want to interpret it.

I suspect it began with the kind actions of Joseph of Arimathea, although even Jesus liked to stay in nice homes, as did the Disciples.

BTW, it takes a critical eye to understand how accurate my header is. You wouldn't imagine it from the way the Christians wrote, only from the monuments and inscriptions and burials left behind by rich Christians. In other words, from factual stuff.

In any case, it wasn't just recently Christians started to spend big on Easter outfits and other ostentation.

http://www.pewforum.org/Income-Distribution-Within-US-Religious-Groups.aspx

By 'of the rich' I should have said controlled by the rich, property of the rich. I didn't mean composed of the rich.

There are several rather severe disapprobations of riches in the New Testament, they have apparently never been taken seriously. Like the suggestion "Thou shalt not kill" they weren't meant for practical application.

Lots of interesting research coming out about the early years of Christianity in Rome. The very first Christian iconography that I know of is in a rich family's tomb. (At least outside of one rude graffito.) Of course there's preservation bias at work.

The same tendency shows up today in the ruling council of churches. Church elders or whatever one calls them. Ordinarily not homeless folks.

The very first Christian iconography that I know of is in a rich family's tomb

That strikes me as unsurprising. The rich could afford such things. The poor rarely leave behind much of anything. For all we know there were 10,000 poor for every rich Christian in the early church. We do know Christians were persecuted. That would indicate being cut off, deprived, poor.


OTOH the Bible is full of instructions to share and be generous. I also believe modern Christians take those instructions seriously.

http://www.openbible.info/topics/sharing

Hebrews 13:16 ESV / Do not neglect to do good and to share what you have, for such sacrifices are pleasing to God.

1 Timothy 6:18 ESV /They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share,

Luke 6:38 ESV / Give, and it will be given to you. Good measure, pressed down, shaken together, running over, will be put into your lap. For with the measure you use it will be measured back to you.”

Isaiah 58 ESV /Is it not to share your bread with the hungry and bring the homeless poor into your house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?

Luke 3:11 ESV / And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.”

2 Corinthians 9:13 ESV / By their approval of this service, they will glorify God because of your submission flowing from your confession of the gospel of Christ, and the generosity of your contribution for them and for all others,

Galatians 6:6 ESV / One who is taught the word must share all good things with the one who teaches.

John 6:1-13 ESV / After this Jesus went away to the other side of the Sea of Galilee, which is the Sea of Tiberias. And a large crowd was following him, because they saw the signs that he was doing on the sick. Jesus went up on the mountain, and there he sat down with his disciples. Now the Passover, the feast of the Jews, was at hand. Lifting up his eyes, then, and seeing that a large crowd was coming toward him, Jesus said to Philip, “Where are we to buy bread, so that these people may eat?” ...

Proverbs 14:10 ESV / The heart knows its own bitterness, and no stranger shares its joy.

Luke 6:29-30 ESV / To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back.

Ephesians 3:6 ESV / This mystery is that the Gentiles are fellow heirs, members of the same body, and partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Acts 4:32 ESV / Now the full number of those who believed were of one heart and soul, and no one said that any of the things that belonged to him was his own, but they had everything in common.

Matthew 11:25-30 ESV / At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him. Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn from me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. ...

Matthew 25:31-46 ESV /“When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne. Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. And he will place the sheep on his right, but the goats on the left. Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, ...

Archaeology hasn't been run through a filter or information bottleneck.

The texts that encourage charity are admirable, no problems with them. The texts which baldly state that the rich are damned are embarassing to the powers that be. If Christianity were reimagined today, they would be left out IMHO. You just don't want to embarass or agravate folks who are likely to be your best donors.

That is why, for instance, Mormonism doesn't go down that road.

was ok with slavery, encouraged slaves to just accept their wretched lot in life and look forward to paradise in the afterlife.

I daresay ol' Mittens and every other greedy bastard in the world is rather fond of that sort of "teaching".

I mean, who owned the slaves? The poor? I don't see anything about "free your slaves, all you wealthy people". Of course yes, in the OT, a Jew could keep another Jew as a slave to pay a debt for no longer than 7 years but a non-Jew slave? I don't see any mercy for them anywhere in the OT.

What writings among Paul's that directly discuss money read like a shake-down.

Julie

The Unity Church, for example, appears to confirm prosperity. TV evangelicals have certainly preached money money money.... Jim Bakker, (though he has reformed somewhat, don't know where Tammy is , Swaggart, Falwell with Tammy maybe?, and the big daddy of them all, my favorite candidate for kevlar underwear, Pat Robertson

The new wave Christian churches are telling the people what they want to hear, not what they need to hear. Used to be, you went to church knowing that you were a sinner, you repented and tried very hard not to repeat the same mistakes. Now it appears you go and sinful behavior like greed and hate is confirmed and glorified....

There are many references to rewards of treasure, riches, gold in the Bible. In the past the accepted translation/interpretation said these meant spiritual gifts, not a physical reward. (thinking specifically of the story who gives servants bags of gold according to their ability) The only time Jesus got really mad was with the money changers.

So really, all this justification for extreme wealth is a perversion of The Word of God. (imho)

Agree with what you say, particularly your third paragraph.

Everything is corruptible by those who seek power and wealth, and the "new wave Christian churches", as you call them, certainly have gone there.

Seems like every four years I have to reaffirm to many that Democrats and God and not mutually exclusive...

Have enjoyed reading through the Religion group, thanks again

but i just read the books about jesus .

the books before and after don`t really appeal to me.

Seems every person, every group just picks and chooses which parts are important to them.

culture and traditions of the time.

No one could, or should, follow it as a literal document.