Romney's VP Pick of Ryan Will Bring Religion to the Fore

[rug]

August 11, 2012
5:35AM
Post by Sarah Posner

I'm writing this from across the Atlantic Ocean, but I awoke to the news that Mitt Romney will announce today that he will pick Republican budget-slashing guru Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI) as his running mate.

The conventional wisdom is that he's trying to win over Tea Partiers and fiscal conservatives—but it's clearly a religious play, too.

The pick will (among other things) ignite a religious war of words, if not by the campaigns themselves, by their surrogates. Ryan and House Speaker John Boehner, after all, famously sought the approval of Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the president of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, and one-time Archbishop of Milwaukee, for Ryan's budget plan that a liberal budget expert said "would produce the largest redistribution of income from the bottom to the top in modern U.S. history, while increasing poverty and inequality more than any measure in recent times and possibly in the nation’s history." This was after Catholic academics called Republican budget-cutting policies "at variance from one of the church’s most ancient moral teachings. From the apostles to the present, the magisterium of the church has insisted that those in power are morally obliged to preference the needs of the poor."

Dolan has called the contraceptive benefit requirement under the Affordable Care Act "literally unconscionable" and "un-American," but spared Ryan's budget such harsh judgment. Instead, he gave Ryan the benefit of the doubt, and merely cautioned: "Care must be taken that those currently in need not be left to suffer. I appreciate your assurance that your budget would be attentive to such considerations and would protect those at risk in the processes and programs of such a transition."

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/sarahposner/6277/romney%27s_vp_pick_of_ryan_will_bring_religion_to_the_fore/

[dimbear]

1. Agreed. Finally a Republican who respects militant atheists. Still, tho, sticking with Barack.

Old and set in my ways.

[Iggy]

2. THIS Ignites the Debt/Deficit Hysteria Until at least

the election.

and it's perfect for Obama.

Paul Ryan is the exact arsehole Obama/Biden have been hoping for.

He's hideous.. more so than even Rmoney himself.

This is perfect- because we've already seen people in our nation- who actually
have a moral compass, attack and deride Ryan's budget meat cleaver which
(hopes) to decimate the social safety net. Really? are ALL repugs in congress on
board with this?

doubtful.

so now Obama's job just got much easier... we citizens who actually have a soul/heart
are going to smack Ryan's absurd "budget" down severely.

it's a win for Obama.

[rug]

3. And Ryan will have to debate Biden.

The contrast can not be clearer.

[Iggy]

4. Exactly

Biden is going to love this.. totally.

Paulie is just no match for uber pol like Biden.

again, this is beautiful. Obama's/Biden's job just got much easier

[JDPriestly]

5. Actually, Ryan's nomination will finally give liberal Christians the opening they

have been needing. And there are still lots and lots of liberal, activist Christians in the US. Many of them are Catholic.

[rug]

6. If Romney believes this pick will solidify Catholic support for his policies, he's in for a surprise

Biden will be adept at pointing out the hypocrisy of Ryan and Romney's policies.

Overall, this is good news for anyone relishing Romney's defeat, excepting those who maintain that belonging to the Catholic Church equates with all sorts of evil.

[Iggy]

17. AGREED

Catholic leadership has already came out strongly against Ryan taking his clumsy
meat cleaver to the social safety net.

the church has issues, yes, but they also have some true stalwarts who do alot of
work with the poor. they're not going to stand by and let this obv BULLY swing
his meat cleaver at the poor alone

[WCGreen]

27. That ass hole Donohue is keeping me from the church I was raised in...

He professes to speak for Catholics when all he cares about is electing conservative ass holes who couldn't be further away from the teachings of the Christ....

[cbayer]

28. Curious. How is he keeping you from your church?

[Iggy]

29. Hmm, what was it that Jesus said, re:

MEN that stand in the way of our faith? something to the effect they are
going straight to hell.

[WCGreen]

43. Because the Catholic Church has not condemned this ass hat, I can't support the church...

if they are happy with his being a political voice for the Catholic Church then fine, I'll stay away.

If they refute him and say he does not speak for the Catholic Church, then I will support the church.

[Jim__]

7. I think it brings the budget to the fore.

Do Americans really want to convert medicare to a voucher system? Eliminate the safety net?

In some ways, it backgrounds the religious debate. When the debate is on purely reproductive issues, the religious side of that debate tends to be on the conservative side - severely restricted reproductive freedom - and conservatives can claim the religious ground. But, with questions about reasonable treatment of the poor, that tends to put conservatives against most religious teaching. The religious divide between conservatives and liberals becomes much less stark as both sides have some agreement and some disagreement with general religious principles. Neither side has a clear claim to being the religious side.

[rug]

8. I think that is his overt point.

His coded point is that the republicans are on the right side of the imagined religious war.

[cbayer]

9. I did some more reading on him last night after this came out, and I think he's still a Randian

who wears the cloak of Catholicism for political cover only.

What say you?

[rug]

10. That's my impression as well, despite his purported repudiation of her.

Someone in the C&O group made an interesting observation: the Catholic bishops have already denounced his economic policies as being inconsistent with Catholic teachings on economic justice.

I can't wait until Biden debates him. It will be like a landlord from Belfast visiting his cousins in Cork.

[cbayer]

11. If he weren't so truly frightening, and the american voting populace so unpredictable,

I would be cheering this.

But the thought that this guy could get anywhere near the WH makes me very nervous.

[rug]

12. Fear not.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/video/obama-uncensored-harsh-words-paul-ryan-13382989

He won't get anywhere near it.

[cbayer]

15. No video for me. Place is crawling with tourists eating bandwidth.

[rug]

16. Ah. It's audio of Obama sizing up Ryan in the past.

They're prepared.

[Goblinmonger]

13. I seem to remember a discussion like this about Obama

and him just wearing his "religion" because he needs it to get elected and I think the theists here thought that was insulting.

Interesting.

[rug]

14. So, you think he really follows Ayn Rand's philosophy?

http://www.americablog.com/2012/08/who-is-paul-ryan-romneys-expected-vp.html

[Goblinmonger]

18. I think he's overall an asshole. Wouldn't surprise me if he follows Rand's asshole thoughts.

But he's a Catholic. I don't know why this "Rand is an atheist" bullshit needs to come up.

[rug]

23. It comes up because 1) Ryan remains an inveterate Randian, and

2) Ayn Rand was an atheist.

[Goblinmonger]

38. It also helps you deflect from 1) Ryan is a Catholic. n/t

[rug]

39. If that helps you deflect from 1) Biden is a Catholic, go for it.

[Goblinmonger]

40. So why do you think it is

that you are so damn happy to bring up that Biden is a Catholic but when discussion turns to Ryan you have to talk about the fact that he MAY follow the economic philosophy of an atheist?

Could it be because it is somehow relevant or because Biden is a swell guy and Ryan is an asshole? I'm guessing everyone realizes that it is the latter. I'm sure you will have a snappy rely that doesn't respond to the point.

[rug]

41. I'm pretty damn happy that Biden is the Vice President.

And I appreciate that he is an active and practicing Catholic as well.

I also see his actions, with the exception of drones and Afghanistan, to be pretty consistent with the social values he, and I, and I suspect, you, were taught in the Catholic Church.

Then I see Ryan.

The embodiment of rapacious capital. The exalter of the individual. The acolyte of Rand who in turn is the acolyte of the rational solipsistic self. There is no "maybe" about his admiration for her. And he too is a practicing Catholic.

But I don't see in him the same values. I don't see in him the same consistency with those values.

So, yes, I'm looking forward to seeing the two of them meet. I expect my confidence to be vindicated.

Snappy enough?

[Goblinmonger]

42. Biden wasn't my first hope for VP

but I'm clearly happy there is a Dem in there and Biden is a pretty solid guy.

The more I live in this world, the more I realize that the values/concepts I was taught at the seminary are FAR more liberal than I see in the churches I visit. I see many more parishes that are closer to Ryan than the liberalism of the seminary. I'm not sure why, though I have theories.

I'm sure the RCC loves Ryan's consistent voting record on abortion and I know there are bishops that would love to deny Biden communion for his voting and stance on the issue. I am happy that the RCC told Ryan to shove his budget plan up his ass. We need more of that Catholic Church.

[meow2u3]

19. My impression of Ryan is that he's a right-wing militant atheist...

...masquerading as a Catholic.

[Jim__]

20. Ahhhh. Now you've done it!

[cbayer]

21. He only began to say he rejected some of Ayn Rand's philosophy

after the Catholic Church came down on him hard.

At any rate, the thought that a Randian could be in a position of great power in this country is really scary. If he is an atheist or not makes no difference to me. However, if he is using the church as cover to push through his ideas for the budget and social programs, I would find that pretty despicable.

[trotsky]

44. Could be.

You aren't going to get a "No True Scotsman" defense from other atheists, because there's nothing about the lack of belief in a god that tells you what your political positions should be.

However, Ryan claims to be a Catholic, and there are plenty of right-wingers who reconcile their hatred for government programs for the poor by (accurately) pointing out that Jesus never said that government should do those things, he commanded them of his followers. It could very well be a sincerely-held belief that if we had minimal government, minimal taxes, that people would have enough money to donate to churches and charities to take care of the less fortunate.

And until and unless one of us can read minds, we have to take Ryan and other right-wing Christians at their word.

[dimbear]

22. Check out the Republican Standard Version Bible story (Ryan fave) where Isaac sacrifices Abraham.

There've been a few detail changes.

[rug]

24. And?

[dimbear]

25. I can't give the details of the RepSV version because I lent my copy to a Republican pal.

It hasn't come back.

[rug]

26. Ok. You just post about it when you get it back.

[zbdent]

30. Biden should demand that Ryan denounce the Pope for hiding

the pedophile priests ...

[cbayer]

31. Not sure that is a good strategy unless Biden has already done that.

Has he?

[rug]

32. Why?

[cleanhippie]

45. Never gonna happen. Most catholics don't really seem to care all that much about it.

Apparently, protecting The Church is more important than protecting children.

[elfin]

33. Both Ryan and Dolan are über ambitious

Ryan wants to be Pres. and Dolan wants to be Pope. Both will do and say whatever to get to their goals.

[rug]

34. I doubt either makes it.

But I agree with you about their ambition.

[elfin]

35. I share your doubts - but

Both will destroy women and whatever other obstacles they see on their path.

[cbayer]

36. That is exactly right.

[Dawson Leery]

37. True.

[Plantaganet]

46. So...

Ryan isn't a real Catholic because his budget runs against Catholic doctrine.

Biden, on the other hand, also flaunts Catholic doctrine (gay marriage) and he is a real Catholic?

[cbayer]

47. I think that in terms of liberal causes and social justice, the contrast is pretty stark.

There are many flavors of Catholics.

The question is, which are the ones who support what most liberals/progressives would consider shared values.

Ryan is most decidely not one of those.

[rug]

48. Biden is in favor of marriage equality and against civil discrimination based on that.

RCC doctrine holds same sex marriages are not sacramental marriages.

Do you see a distinction?