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Thu Aug 9, 2012, 03:49 PM

Tenth Commandment: Doesn't that mean that Capitalism at it's root is un/anti-christian?

"Thou shalt not covet" - How else do you generate consumerism other than by making people covet stuff?

What do you guys think?

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Reply Tenth Commandment: Doesn't that mean that Capitalism at it's root is un/anti-christian? (Original post)
truebrit71 Aug 2012 OP
FBaggins Aug 2012 #1
truebrit71 Aug 2012 #3
FBaggins Aug 2012 #6
Egalitarian Thug Aug 2012 #18
Humanist_Activist Aug 2012 #9
FBaggins Aug 2012 #11
Humanist_Activist Aug 2012 #12
FBaggins Aug 2012 #13
Humanist_Activist Aug 2012 #14
cbayer Aug 2012 #2
demosincebirth Aug 2012 #4
cbayer Aug 2012 #10
trotsky Aug 2012 #8
Tyrs WolfDaemon Aug 2012 #15
cbayer Aug 2012 #16
MissMarple Aug 2012 #17
okasha Aug 2012 #5
toddwv Aug 2012 #7

Response to truebrit71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 03:54 PM

1. Nope.

Because it isn't "thou shalt not covet"

It's "thou shalt not covet things that already belong to others".



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Response to FBaggins (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 04:03 PM

3. But what if the thing that belongs to my neighbour is his shiny new car....

...obviously if steal HIS car I have violated a different commandment entirely, so instead I buy my OWN shiny new car, or my OWN shiny new house...isn't that the same basic thing?

Or isn't this basically the same thing as the 8th commandment?

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Response to truebrit71 (Reply #3)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 04:13 PM

6. Again... nope.

If he has a shiny new car and you want what he has... that's against the rule.

If you like his shiny new car and say to yourself "I'm going to go buy one just like it for myself"... you're safe.

You would be on firmer ground with "the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil", but even that is not really anti capitalism (though it certainly describes many within the system). It's perfectly possible to work hard and be successful without worshiping mammon.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #6)

Sat Aug 11, 2012, 02:35 AM

18. Not according to your primary spokesman. n/t

 

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #1)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 05:12 PM

9. But isn't it true, when you go to a store, that when you buy something you covet...

it already belonged to someone or at least something else(the store). That seems to be a direct violation of the commandment?

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #9)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 05:37 PM

11. I wouldn't say so, no.

These are things offered for sale. The principle is clearly the desiring of something to which you are not entitled and have not earned - not the desiring of a thing that the owner wants you to buy. Presumably, if your neighbor put a "for sale" sign on his ass... it would no longer be sinful covetousness to decide whether or not you wanted to buy it.

Now, as hinted above, there's another principle (for christians) that points out that you shouldn't be placing anything above Christ (even your family, though that gets complicated). So you could certainly desire even something that you've earned in a way that could be sinful... but not because it violates the 10th commandment.

It would instead violate the 1st.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #11)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 08:06 PM

12. Again, that interpretation sounds like a prohibition on stealing which seems redundant...

also your second paragraph is why I can never trust truly faithful, as opposed to cultural, Christians. Truly a horrific belief system they have there.

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Response to Humanist_Activist (Reply #12)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 08:32 PM

13. They're all redundant.

They boil down to only two.

As for the rest... I can only assume that you don't understand it. But that's ok.

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Response to FBaggins (Reply #13)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 09:24 PM

14. What's not to understand?

Note, this is but one English language version, but pretty standard, I am not going to go into the whole Catholic vs. Protestant vs. Jewish thing. My commentary in bold.

1. You shall have no other gods before me. I find this one interesting, nice Henotheistic or Monolatrism position rather explicitly laid out

2. You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments. This one is always been funny to me, being raised a Catholic, they surely interpreted this one differently, and Protestants aren't much better, but what I love the most is how fucked up god is, to punish the innocent children of the guilty parties, what a fucked up deity.

3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain. This one is brief, so I will be too, I really don't care about this one.

4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. Fuck me if I ever oppose having a day off, just don't expect me to praise this monster for it.

5. Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you. I love how these are absolute, better honor that mother or father, even if they beat you, molest you, or psychologically torture you.

6. You shall not murder. This is a good one.

7. You shall not commit adultery. This one needs a definition for adultery.

8. You shall not steal. Another good one.

9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. Another good one.

10. You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's. OK, this one is another fucked up one, and the reason is this, it outright lists the property(in general and specific terms) of your neighbor. Look at the list, an acknowledgement of slavery, both spousal and general. Don't covet your neighbor's slaves, he's fucking them(being exempt from adultery commandment above in this circumstance.)

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Response to truebrit71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 03:54 PM

2. I always read this as desiring something that you are not entitled to

or belongs to someone else or would cause harm to another if you took it.

Not as simply wanting to have something.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 04:08 PM

4. ...like your neighbors wife? or goods.

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Response to demosincebirth (Reply #4)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 05:15 PM

10. Could be either, I suppose.

I really don't put much stake in this, but I guess what I was taught was that it has more to do with envy than acquisition.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #2)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 04:31 PM

8. Then that's a duplicate of "Thou shalt not steal."

God should have hired an editor.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 10, 2012, 05:15 PM

15. That sounds like Rmoney's desire to be president.

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Response to Tyrs WolfDaemon (Reply #15)

Fri Aug 10, 2012, 05:37 PM

16. Hilarious!

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Response to cbayer (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 10, 2012, 06:49 PM

17. Bingo. Indicates an "inordinate desire".

I looked it up.

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Response to truebrit71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 04:09 PM

5. Consumerism is certainly directly related to capitalism

and greed to both. I think what's being prohibited here is greed--not having enough food and shelter for yourself and your family but being driven to the acquisition of bigger and better at the expense of others.

And if you want to see capitalism in its purest form, look at the drug war currently raging in Mexico. Pure supply and demand, no regulation, literally killing off the competition.

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Response to truebrit71 (Original post)

Thu Aug 9, 2012, 04:16 PM

7. Capitalism is fine...

as long as you COMPLETELY ignore the teachings of Jesus.

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