Tue Jul 17, 2012, 02:16 PM

cbayer (120,475 posts)

Air Force Academy: Proselytizing And Religious Freedom Debate On School Campus

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/17/air-force-academy-religion-proselytism_n_1678092.html

Religion News Service | By Chris Lisee
Posted: 07/17/2012 11:16 am Updated: 07/17/2012 11:16 am

(RNS) The long-smoldering debate at the U.S. Air Force Academy over the role of religion in cadets' lives has reignited, just as a new class arrives on campus for basic training.

Accusations of improper proselytizing on the Colorado Springs, Colo., campus have been challenged by those who argue that AFA guidelines curtail religious expression.

The two sides recently clashed over a letter from 66 House Republicans urging Defense Secretary Leon Panetta to investigate the USAF's growing "hostility toward religious freedom" under guidelines set last September by USAF Chief of Staff Gen. Norton Schwartz.

In response to allegations of proselytizing, Schwarz mandated that only chaplains could endorse religious programs.

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9 replies	Author	Time	Post
Air Force Academy: Proselytizing And Religious Freedom Debate On School Campus (Original post)	cbayer	Jul 2012	OP
This is a military academy	atreides1	Jul 2012	#1
So do you agree with the Academy's decision on how to handle this?	cbayer	Jul 2012	#2
I'd say it's an improvement over the Bush years...	backscatter712	Jul 2012	#7
there should be no government run religious agencies or propaganda in the military nt	msongs	Jul 2012	#3
That's not what this article is about.	cbayer	Jul 2012	#4
Actually it is.	Warren Stupidity	Jul 2012	#5
Your synopsis is right and that is what the article is about.	cbayer	Jul 2012	#6
"You're encouraged to attend."	Jim__	Jul 2012	#8
I agree. It's particularly odious when said by a commanding officer.	cbayer	Jul 2012	#9

Response to cbayer (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 02:24 PM

atreides1 (10,268 posts)

1. This is a military academy

Not the Chapter House of the Templars...they want to preach, I hear Liberty University has religious classes.

They are being trained to wear the uniform of the United States Air Force, not a preacher's coat...either learn to live with the regulations or get the fuck out now!!!

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Response to atreides1 (Reply #1)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 02:27 PM

cbayer (120,475 posts)

2. So do you agree with the Academy's decision on how to handle this?

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Response to cbayer (Reply #2)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 05:29 PM

backscatter712 (20,399 posts)

7. I'd say it's an improvement over the Bush years...

Last edited Tue Jul 17, 2012, 05:32 PM USA/ET - Edit history (1)

During the Bush years, the Bushies appointed several new fundie chaplains who started god-bothering the cadets relentlessly. They were trying to turn every officer in the U.S. military into dominionist fundies.

Now, the god-botherers at least got put on a leash - only the chaplains are allowed to talk religion with the cadets, they can't order them to attend events (though a high-ranking superior "encouraging" you to go to a religious event is only slightly removed from an order - the cadets still get a lot of pressure to go fundy...) I'd call it an improvement, though the god-botherers still are working very hard to inflict their batshit on the military...

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 02:42 PM

msongs (30,823 posts)

3. there should be no government run religious agencies or propaganda in the military nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #3)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 02:59 PM

cbayer (120,475 posts)

4. That's not what this article is about.

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Response to cbayer (Reply #4)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 03:38 PM

Warren Stupidity (32,399 posts)

5. Actually it is.

AFA was essentially taken over by fundaloons in the late 90's early 2000's. The scandal over this resulted in rules being established to create a wall between the academy's legitimate religious functions (i.e. chaplains of various denominations) and its non-religious functions. There is now an attempt by the fundaloons to undo those regulations. That is what this article is about, and the posters point is entirely appropriate.

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Response to Warren Stupidity (Reply #5)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 03:41 PM

cbayer (120,475 posts)

6. Your synopsis is right and that is what the article is about.

It is not whether there should be state sponsored religious organizations at the academy. It's about the rules around religious organizations and who can "encourage" cadets to attend.

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Response to cbayer (Original post)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 06:27 PM

Jim__ (8,654 posts)

8. "You're encouraged to attend."

It sounds innocuous. But, even in business, when your boss encourages you to go, you better either go or have a damned good excuse. I would think in the military, that is an even stronger obligation.

It is really hard to know where to draw the line. Letting students know about an event without any implicit requirement to attend may be acceptable. But, "You're encouraged to attend," from an officer seems too much like a command.

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Response to Jim__ (Reply #8)

Tue Jul 17, 2012, 06:32 PM

cbayer (120,475 posts)

9. I agree. It's particularly odious when said by a commanding officer.

I think the Academy made the right choice here and I hope they don't bend to the demands of those who disagree.

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