Do we have a pre-Judao-Chrisitian history of religion forum?

[edcantor]

If so where is it? If not, is this the forum to discuss the many mythologies of a savior born of a virgin, who may have walked on water,healed the sick and the blind, tempted in a desert, or performed miracles, and rose from the dead 3 days after some sort of assassination?

Do Christian and Jewish faiths teach about Krishna, about Mithra, about Horus, or other religions of the region before Christianity?

Does "religion" no longer include these figures in the mythological history for some reason? If so, what reason is that?

[cr8tvlde]

1. This is still pretty much a Christian and a Converted Jewish forum

because there is no such thing, IMHO, as a Judeo-Christian. Kind of like a Buddhist Christian or Hindu Christian. A Jew is a religion. When they convert, they are a Former Jew --- now a Christian. It's not like they are a race...they are not. They are Semites, as are the Arabs and a bunch of Middle Easterners. But they are Caucasian and when they convert to any other religion, their own people typically consider them dead.

The Fundie Christians court the Jews hoping to convert them for the Apocolypse. The Jews/Zionists play along with that and use the Christian's money and military armaments for their own "chosen" purposes in threatening the other ME countries. The real Jews dislike the Christians, and vice versa.

Don't blame me. It's in Revelations. The Bible says so ... 144,000 ex-Jews now Christians will live through the Apocylypse and start the 1,000 years of Peace with Jesus.

The others, easy, they are pagans/heathens. End of story.

The reason? They are neither Christian or likely to convert to Christianity. Kind of a Reverse Crusade.

[edcantor]

2. I'm not sure that addressed my question, but thanks for

your thoughts.

Are you saying that Christians only consider those people who followed the Old Testament, those who claim that their God is a singular God who created the planet and all things within it, the flood, Adam and Eve, Job, Methusela, (sp), etc etc. Those are the ONLY people with ancient religious beliefs to whom Christianity need apply?

Modern anthropology and paleontology indicates that various civilizations, (Egyptians prominent among them), pre-dated Jewish folks of various tribes, by hundreds or thousands of years. Babylonians, ancient folks of the Far East, all had religious beliefs, many had a figure that resembled a Christ-like figure, with many of the same life events, virgin birth, miracle cures, water walks, slaughter, rising from the dead 3 days later. Are we to discard all of this, just because the nature of the Christian salvation over Jewish folks is more important, because, as I recall, the Jewish folks did NOT have a Christ-like life-like similar biographical figure in their mythology?

Can you get back to me with what your major point is? I'm a bit confused. I know there's a lot of Christians who spend their lives asserting the superiority of the Christian religion over the Jewish faith, but that's only one faith over another. I'm sure Christians today live their lives thinking Jews are just unfortunate for not having accepted Jesus as their savior, but they will love Jewish folks anyway. I get that part.

But can we step back and look at the hundreds of thousands of people who pre-date Judaism who also had a messianic figure who performed miracles? Christians seem to never address that. Or do they?

[laconicsax]

3. There have been posts here along those lines.

Christianity only tends to be a main focus here because it's the majority in the US.

[edcantor]

5. So are you saying this question I asked has been answered?

If so, I would like to have a link to it.

If not, why do you state something without providing some evidence??

Please do not treat new and honestly curious people with an arrogance of seniority that insists that new posters do not deserve answers nor any links. I would prefer you provide actual material worthy of discussion rather than the simplistic factual history of some sort of internet in-group. Thanks for your reply.

[muriel_volestrangler]

6. That post did provide an effective answer to one of your questions

the one that started "is this the forum to discuss the many mythologies ...". Yes, that discussion has happened here in the past, and it's fine to discuss it here again. I don't think there's any "arrogance of seniority" there, or any insistence about what new posters do. If you want to find the previous threads, the Google site search (top right) for 'Mithra' etc. will find them.

[edcantor]

7. The history of religious thought prior to Judaism and Chrsitianity is a bit more

complex than "Google site search (top right) for 'Mithra' etc."

Sorry, but I am not impressed by your lack of respect for an honest question which deserves as much discussion as anything relating to the last 2000 years of one religious branch in the history of mankind.n

More precisely:why is the "religion" forum confined to a discussion of the three most historically recent branches of religious thinking? And why is one forced to search obscure older threads from several years or months ago? Do they answer my central question? If so, where?

I can use Google and Wikipedia as well as anyone, but an open discussion as to why current posters here disregard previous religious constructs in favor of two or three more contemporary, I doubt I'd find detailed answers in something several months or years ago relating to various aspects of one religion or another.

Pardon me if I'm asking too much of current posters, to defend their beliefs in context. Within the last year, we have seen major shifts in Christian thinking, no obvious shift in Jewish thought, but the first bi-racial President of the most powerful nation on the planet declared last month that a previously religiously segregated minority of the population deserves equal rights. We have seen religious leaders in the black Christian community come around to supporting that position.

I don't, somehow, think that years ago references to obscure religious history satisfies any of my questions.

I am asking Christians and Jews to account for the fact that they never teach their followers about other religions that had the same hero figures. If there are already answers out there in the DU history, I'm sure someone can point me to more than instructions about a limited Google search engine.

[cbayer]

8. I don't think there is any restriction to the three most recent religions.

There was an interesting thread in Meta at one point about whether it was appropriate to discuss general philosophy here, and, iirc, there was general agreement that it would be fine.

What you want to discuss seems fine with me.

[edcantor]

9. Please provide links!

Thanks in advance.

I would like to know where we can discuss this.

Most people of Jewish, Christian, or Muslim faiths, (about the largest majority of America I ever come up with) can talk about the last 3000 years of religious history.

Did anyone here know that there were burial rights in communities 20,000-38,000 years ago in Europe?

There's a lot more to the history of religion than the last 3000 years. I'd like to discuss that.

[cbayer]

10. Here is the thread where this was discussed in meta

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1240&pid=53455

We have had some discussions here, but they might be harder to track down. I will see what I can find.

But, again, I don't think there would be any objection at all to discussion what you describe. It might even elevate the conversation, which would be a good thing.

Welcome to the Religion group, by the way. I apologize if I have seemed arrogant. I do get defensive when I feel groups or individuals are being attacked and may over-react at times, but I welcome anyone who wants to have a legitimate discussion.

[cbayer]

12. Here is one on Easter.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=18084

and one on Hinduism:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1218&pid=20359


I'm having difficulty finding others, though I do think there have been more.

[muriel_volestrangler]

11. A major part of your OP was asking if this is the right place to discuss this

and this sub-thread has said, yes, it is. There is no obligation to address everything you ask in the OP. Not answering it all is not "lack of respect'.

Most of the rest of it looks more like rhetorical questions, it seems to me, anyway. I get the idea you want to talk about this, and already have opinions; it's better for you to put them forward, and people will respond. laconicsax is unlikely to have links to the previous threads saved; like me, they know it has been discussed, and, if needing to find it, we would probably both use that Google search. If your concern was not to repeat something that has already been said, you could use it too.

"why is the "religion" forum confined to a discussion of the three most historically recent branches of religious thinking?" It's not confined. That is what this sub-thread is telling you. You are not 'forced' to search; you can start discussing the religious history you want to.

I don't actually know which of your questions is 'central', so I can't say if it's been answered.

"why current posters here disregard previous religious constructs" Not everyone talks about exactly what you want to talk about before you do. That is the nature of the world, as well as this discussion forum.

"Pardon me if I'm asking too much of current poster, to defend their beliefs in context. " Frankly, I think you are asking too much. laconicsax was just pointing out that such things do get discussed here; there's no 'beliefs' in that post. If you are aiming that at all the posters in this group, then it seems a ridiculously wide challenge - "everyone, whatever you talk about here, relate it to my particular interest in historical religion - now!" I don't actually know what the "major shifts in Christian thinking" you are referring to are - if that's part of the subject of gay marriage you then go on to, well, it's the first time you've mentioned it in this thread; but I can't see that it has much to do with Mithra. If you think it has, then it'd be better to explain why.

You seem to have taken offence at the mention of Google. This is a discussion forum, not an indexed encyclopedia with a list of "answers to life's questions about religion we have already definitively solved". Saying "Horus, Mithra and other non Judeo-Christian beliefs have come up before" is just a way of answering your question of whether this is the place to have such discussions; and Google is a way of finding the links to them.

[msongs]

4. christian beliefs are 100% borrowed/stolen from previous religions, this ought to do it :-) nt

[hunter]

14. Yep, that'll do it.

DU2, it seemed to me, had more rockin' and rollin' on the non-Abrahamic religions front.

Place got a little too hot for the older faiths, what with Goblinmonger gong atheist on us.

[Leontius]

13. I can't see any reason for an objection to the discussion of any 'religion' in this group.

Currently practiced or extinct I would think they should all be fair game here. Start a thread and see where it goes.

[Angry Dragon]

15. This is a religion group so

if you would like to talk about religion older than 3000 years I feel you have the right to do so