Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 06:05 PM Dec 2016

In Texas, a religious liberty battle rages at one school over quote from A Charlie Brown Christmas



Charlie Brown and Linus appear in a scene from “A Charlie Brown Christmas.” (ABC/United Feature Syndicate via AP)

By Katie Mettler
December 14 at 7:20 AM

In the classic holiday TV special “A Charlie Brown Christmas,” the main Peanuts character, saddened by the over-commercialization of December 25, decides to put on a play.

But when his classmates push him to modernize the production and mock his sparse Christmas tree, Charlie Brown, exasperated, shouts out: “Isn’t there anyone who knows what Christmas is all about?”

Linus, his thumb-sucking and blanket-toting best friend, speaks up.

“Sure, Charlie Brown,” he says. “I can tell you what Christmas is all about.”

Then the character recites a lengthy Bible passage, from the second chapter of the Gospel of Luke, when angels descend upon the flock-tending shepherds to announce the birth of baby Jesus.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/12/14/in-texas-a-religious-liberty-battles-rages-at-one-school-over-quote-from-a-charlie-brown-christmas/?utm_term=.9f4b4e842b73
39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
In Texas, a religious liberty battle rages at one school over quote from A Charlie Brown Christmas (Original Post) rug Dec 2016 OP
Is all literature to be censored to remove any references to religion? guillaumeb Dec 2016 #1
The irony is that Charles Schulz was a secular humanist. rug Dec 2016 #2
I also accept the many paths school of belief. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #5
Hmmm. Interesting take on the marybourg Dec 2016 #11
Do they have a catechism? rug Dec 2016 #14
Did you read the link I supplied? nt. marybourg Dec 2016 #15
Of course. Was there a copyrght I missed? rug Dec 2016 #16
Well I did capitolize the name "Secular Humanists". nt. marybourg Dec 2016 #20
Ah, the dreaded proper noun. rug Dec 2016 #21
That's nice, but... HassleCat Dec 2016 #3
That's the nub of the issue. It's not about promoting Christianity. rug Dec 2016 #4
It's fine to celebrate Christmas HassleCat Dec 2016 #6
If we leave the religious background out of Christmas, guillaumeb Dec 2016 #8
Now you're doing a reductio ad absurdum HassleCat Dec 2016 #10
Yes, I was. I explain further in post #12. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #13
Here's the entire "speech". rug Dec 2016 #17
But it is also a traditional story that does have a place in schools. guillaumeb Dec 2016 #7
I'm not clear on what you mean. HassleCat Dec 2016 #9
This was not a speech from a politician or a teacher, guillaumeb Dec 2016 #12
The school nurse... stillcool Dec 2016 #18
Can she hang this poster? rug Dec 2016 #19
Can she hang any poster? stillcool Dec 2016 #22
She can't hang any poster? rug Dec 2016 #23
No. She's a nurses assistant stillcool Dec 2016 #24
Hell yeah! rug Dec 2016 #25
Wtf? Beartracks Dec 2016 #35
do assistants generally... stillcool Dec 2016 #36
No, but why do you assume so much about her? Beartracks Dec 2016 #37
Or this one! struggle4progress Dec 2016 #30
Their one-ply towels will only deter Mensheviks. rug Dec 2016 #31
And their tp is good for a case of the Trotskies. n/t Igel Dec 2016 #38
The American Taliban strikes again. tenorly Dec 2016 #26
Taliban? You think a Charlie Brown poster equals the Taliban? rug Dec 2016 #28
Within a week this nurse's aide has lawyered up? Roland99 Dec 2016 #27
All the poutrage around this story is not christian. rug Dec 2016 #29
Yep Dorian Gray Dec 2016 #33
Just a little story Dorian Gray Dec 2016 #32
+1 Roland99 Dec 2016 #34
Update:Judge orders 'Charlie Brown Christmas' display restored at Killeen school rug Dec 2016 #39

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
1. Is all literature to be censored to remove any references to religion?
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 06:25 PM
Dec 2016

That will keep the censors quite busy.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
2. The irony is that Charles Schulz was a secular humanist.
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 06:35 PM
Dec 2016
Later in his life, Schulz’s began to refer to himself as a “secular humanist,” as his theology became less traditional. This did not mean he was no longer a Christian, but rather that he now believed other faiths might also provide legitimate paths to God. He was also less certain about other Christian doctrines, such as the existence of a literal heaven.

http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/04/the-spirituality-of-snoopy/479664/
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
14. Do they have a catechism?
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 07:07 PM
Dec 2016

One can be secular, and humanist, with, or without, religious belief.

One can have a secular view of government, while having religious belief.

One can be humanist, with or without religious belief.

It's odd to encounter dogma while discussing humanism.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
16. Of course. Was there a copyrght I missed?
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 07:16 PM
Dec 2016

A trademark or Imprimatur perhaps?

The Center for Inquiry is free to post anything they wish. They are not free to speak for anyone else, unless they have some authority you've failed to invoke.

Here's a link for you to read.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-mennonno/atheists-hijack-humanism_b_8411476.html

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
3. That's nice, but...
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 06:39 PM
Dec 2016

It's the interpretation of the story according to the Christian faith, so it has no place in the public schools. "The reason for the season," as they like to say, has little to do with Jesus, or wise men, or mangers or any of that stuff Linus quotes from the Bible. It's the result of Christians trying to appropriate the pagan mid-winter festivals, so the modern appropriation by commercial interests is rather fitting.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
4. That's the nub of the issue. It's not about promoting Christianity.
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 06:43 PM
Dec 2016

The fact is that Christmas indeed has its origins in Christianity. The fact that it appropriated local customs does not change it.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
6. It's fine to celebrate Christmas
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 06:48 PM
Dec 2016

As long as we leave the religion out of it. There really is no acceptable comment for the public schools, other than explaining Christmas is a holiday celebrated by Christians to honor the birth of one of their deities. Linus' speech goes well beyond the boundary.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
8. If we leave the religious background out of Christmas,
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 06:52 PM
Dec 2016

will we then have a "mas" celebration? And "mas" trees, and a "mas" market in Chicago selling various "mas" themed merchandise?

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
10. Now you're doing a reductio ad absurdum
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 06:58 PM
Dec 2016

But I think you already knew that. We are allowed to mention religious holidays, and even explain a little about them, but we are not allowed to quote the holy books of any religion.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
17. Here's the entire "speech".
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 07:24 PM
Dec 2016


The fact is Christmas is a religious season (not a single holiday at all.) To say otherwise is no different than saying the Fourth of July is not a patriotic holiday - it's a celebration of hot dogs.

It's fine to celebrate Independence Day as long as we leave the flags out of it.

The fact that corporations have latched onto Christmas, as they have on many things, does not change either the nature or origins of the season.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
7. But it is also a traditional story that does have a place in schools.
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 06:49 PM
Dec 2016

It should not be taught as history, except possibly cultural history, but separation of church and state does not mean that no reference can be made to cultural symbols.

 

HassleCat

(6,409 posts)
9. I'm not clear on what you mean.
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 06:56 PM
Dec 2016

But I will tell you what I mean. It's fine to explain to public school students that Christmas is a holiday celebrated by most Christians because they consider it the birthday of one of their gods, or deities, or whatever Jesus is. You see the problem here? It's difficult to give much of an explanation without giving weight to certain theological points. Quoting Bible verses is well across the line, so we should not have Linus making his speech for public school kids.

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
12. This was not a speech from a politician or a teacher,
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 07:05 PM
Dec 2016

it is words from a play. Does this mean that in your view A Christmas Carol by Dickens could also not be performed?

If the teacher had endorsed the message and stated that it is true because it is in the Bible that would be an improper endorsement of religion.

If the play had been Hansel and Gretel would that also be objectionable because one of the characters is a witch?

stillcool

(32,626 posts)
18. The school nurse...
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 07:45 PM
Dec 2016

makes a poster, and hangs it on her door. She chose the words. Why? Why take it upon herself to explain what Christmas means to her, by making a poster and hanging it on her door. Sounds immature and unprofessional. I went to Catholic school, and she wouldn't have gotten away with it there.

stillcool

(32,626 posts)
24. No. She's a nurses assistant
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 08:49 PM
Dec 2016

So....no. The nurse might want to hang that poster, in the nurses office. The school may want to hang those posters in the bathrooms. The school might want to do a display on religious holidays and their meanings. What do you think? Do you hang signs up where you want, with no concern for anyone but yourself?

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
25. Hell yeah!
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 08:59 PM
Dec 2016

I sneak out at night at put the damn posters wherever I damn want!

And then I read the Communist Manifesto to a cell of nurses' assistants!

Beartracks

(12,761 posts)
35. Wtf?
Thu Dec 15, 2016, 07:50 PM
Dec 2016

Clearly if she were to hang the germ-buster poster -- at her place of employment where she serves as a healthcare professional, no less -- then she doesn't just care for anyone but herself.

Not at all sure what point you're trying to make with that example.

stillcool

(32,626 posts)
36. do assistants generally...
Thu Dec 15, 2016, 09:24 PM
Dec 2016

decide to hang posters wherever they want, that say whatever they want? Clearly, she has taken it upon herself to hang something on the door of an office where she is an employee. I guess the work ethics and environment have changed considerably.

Beartracks

(12,761 posts)
37. No, but why do you assume so much about her?
Fri Dec 16, 2016, 02:24 AM
Dec 2016

Why do you presume that a assistant is not allowed to follow whatever decorating policies are in place there? There's also no evidence that she's running around the school hanging up posters willy nilly "wherever" she wants to with "whatever" the hell she wants on them. And if she did hang even a health-related poster, why do you conclude she must have only done so with no direction from a superior?

It makes sense to question the decorating policies in the public school (or did she purposely decorate her door outside of what was allowable?), but we can't rail against the employee herself based on mere conjecture.

===============

tenorly

(2,037 posts)
26. The American Taliban strikes again.
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 09:05 PM
Dec 2016

Trust me, in 2 or 3 years anyone without a Christmas tree by their front window will have bricks thrown through their windows, car tires punctured, or worse.

God help us all.

Roland99

(53,342 posts)
27. Within a week this nurse's aide has lawyered up?
Wed Dec 14, 2016, 09:14 PM
Dec 2016

Oh yeah. She knew what she was doing

Fake christian poutrage

Dorian Gray

(13,469 posts)
32. Just a little story
Thu Dec 15, 2016, 08:06 AM
Dec 2016

My daughter goes to a non-religious private school in Brooklyn. When i went to pick her up the other day, one of the teachers was decorating the lobby with snowmen for a sign-up for winter after-school activities. A little boy walked by and said: It's a Christmas snowman!

She got all perplexed and nervous about whether it was an appropriate decoration.

I told her: Kids are going to view decorations through the prism in which they're familiar.

There are kids from non-religious families, Christian families, Jewish families, Muslim families and Hindu families at our school. It is what it is, and you can't be overly afraid of these things.

And if kids want to create decorations for their own family celebrations, so be it. It should be allowed. It doesn't mean that the school is supporting it.

We have people coming in to discuss Diwali and the origins. A parent came into the classroom to talk about Jewish holy days earlier in the year. Nobody comes in to talk about the origins of Christmas. I'm okay with that because it's so permeated throughout society that most kids know. But, if someone mentioned God or Christ, it's not the end of the world, either.

Now, a teacher (or in this case school nurse) who places that quote on the wall....

That's an entirely different matter.

Latest Discussions»Issue Forums»Religion»In Texas, a religious lib...