Religion
Related: About this forumIn Texas, a religious liberty battle rages at one school over quote from A Charlie Brown Christmas
Charlie Brown and Linus appear in a scene from A Charlie Brown Christmas. (ABC/United Feature Syndicate via AP)
By Katie Mettler
December 14 at 7:20 AM
In the classic holiday TV special A Charlie Brown Christmas, the main Peanuts character, saddened by the over-commercialization of December 25, decides to put on a play.
But when his classmates push him to modernize the production and mock his sparse Christmas tree, Charlie Brown, exasperated, shouts out: Isnt there anyone who knows what Christmas is all about?
Linus, his thumb-sucking and blanket-toting best friend, speaks up.
Sure, Charlie Brown, he says. I can tell you what Christmas is all about.
Then the character recites a lengthy Bible passage, from the second chapter of the Gospel of Luke, when angels descend upon the flock-tending shepherds to announce the birth of baby Jesus.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/12/14/in-texas-a-religious-liberty-battles-rages-at-one-school-over-quote-from-a-charlie-brown-christmas/?utm_term=.9f4b4e842b73
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)That will keep the censors quite busy.
rug
(82,333 posts)http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/04/the-spirituality-of-snoopy/479664/
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)Plus religion is a part of history.
marybourg
(12,540 posts)meaning of secular humanism. I don't think Secular Humanists would agree.
https://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php/3260
rug
(82,333 posts)One can be secular, and humanist, with, or without, religious belief.
One can have a secular view of government, while having religious belief.
One can be humanist, with or without religious belief.
It's odd to encounter dogma while discussing humanism.
marybourg
(12,540 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)A trademark or Imprimatur perhaps?
The Center for Inquiry is free to post anything they wish. They are not free to speak for anyone else, unless they have some authority you've failed to invoke.
Here's a link for you to read.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mike-mennonno/atheists-hijack-humanism_b_8411476.html
marybourg
(12,540 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)HassleCat
(6,409 posts)It's the interpretation of the story according to the Christian faith, so it has no place in the public schools. "The reason for the season," as they like to say, has little to do with Jesus, or wise men, or mangers or any of that stuff Linus quotes from the Bible. It's the result of Christians trying to appropriate the pagan mid-winter festivals, so the modern appropriation by commercial interests is rather fitting.
rug
(82,333 posts)The fact is that Christmas indeed has its origins in Christianity. The fact that it appropriated local customs does not change it.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)As long as we leave the religion out of it. There really is no acceptable comment for the public schools, other than explaining Christmas is a holiday celebrated by Christians to honor the birth of one of their deities. Linus' speech goes well beyond the boundary.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)will we then have a "mas" celebration? And "mas" trees, and a "mas" market in Chicago selling various "mas" themed merchandise?
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)But I think you already knew that. We are allowed to mention religious holidays, and even explain a little about them, but we are not allowed to quote the holy books of any religion.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)The fact is Christmas is a religious season (not a single holiday at all.) To say otherwise is no different than saying the Fourth of July is not a patriotic holiday - it's a celebration of hot dogs.
It's fine to celebrate Independence Day as long as we leave the flags out of it.
The fact that corporations have latched onto Christmas, as they have on many things, does not change either the nature or origins of the season.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)It should not be taught as history, except possibly cultural history, but separation of church and state does not mean that no reference can be made to cultural symbols.
HassleCat
(6,409 posts)But I will tell you what I mean. It's fine to explain to public school students that Christmas is a holiday celebrated by most Christians because they consider it the birthday of one of their gods, or deities, or whatever Jesus is. You see the problem here? It's difficult to give much of an explanation without giving weight to certain theological points. Quoting Bible verses is well across the line, so we should not have Linus making his speech for public school kids.
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)it is words from a play. Does this mean that in your view A Christmas Carol by Dickens could also not be performed?
If the teacher had endorsed the message and stated that it is true because it is in the Bible that would be an improper endorsement of religion.
If the play had been Hansel and Gretel would that also be objectionable because one of the characters is a witch?
stillcool
(32,626 posts)makes a poster, and hangs it on her door. She chose the words. Why? Why take it upon herself to explain what Christmas means to her, by making a poster and hanging it on her door. Sounds immature and unprofessional. I went to Catholic school, and she wouldn't have gotten away with it there.
rug
(82,333 posts)stillcool
(32,626 posts)Where is she....her dorm room?
rug
(82,333 posts)How about this one?
stillcool
(32,626 posts)So....no. The nurse might want to hang that poster, in the nurses office. The school may want to hang those posters in the bathrooms. The school might want to do a display on religious holidays and their meanings. What do you think? Do you hang signs up where you want, with no concern for anyone but yourself?
rug
(82,333 posts)I sneak out at night at put the damn posters wherever I damn want!
And then I read the Communist Manifesto to a cell of nurses' assistants!
Beartracks
(12,761 posts)Clearly if she were to hang the germ-buster poster -- at her place of employment where she serves as a healthcare professional, no less -- then she doesn't just care for anyone but herself.
Not at all sure what point you're trying to make with that example.
stillcool
(32,626 posts)decide to hang posters wherever they want, that say whatever they want? Clearly, she has taken it upon herself to hang something on the door of an office where she is an employee. I guess the work ethics and environment have changed considerably.
Beartracks
(12,761 posts)Why do you presume that a assistant is not allowed to follow whatever decorating policies are in place there? There's also no evidence that she's running around the school hanging up posters willy nilly "wherever" she wants to with "whatever" the hell she wants on them. And if she did hang even a health-related poster, why do you conclude she must have only done so with no direction from a superior?
It makes sense to question the decorating policies in the public school (or did she purposely decorate her door outside of what was allowable?), but we can't rail against the employee herself based on mere conjecture.
===============
struggle4progress
(118,040 posts)rug
(82,333 posts)Igel
(35,197 posts)tenorly
(2,037 posts)Trust me, in 2 or 3 years anyone without a Christmas tree by their front window will have bricks thrown through their windows, car tires punctured, or worse.
God help us all.
rug
(82,333 posts)Roland99
(53,342 posts)Oh yeah. She knew what she was doing
Fake christian poutrage
rug
(82,333 posts)Dorian Gray
(13,469 posts)She's making a point.
I'd have removed the poster if asked.
Story over.
Dorian Gray
(13,469 posts)My daughter goes to a non-religious private school in Brooklyn. When i went to pick her up the other day, one of the teachers was decorating the lobby with snowmen for a sign-up for winter after-school activities. A little boy walked by and said: It's a Christmas snowman!
She got all perplexed and nervous about whether it was an appropriate decoration.
I told her: Kids are going to view decorations through the prism in which they're familiar.
There are kids from non-religious families, Christian families, Jewish families, Muslim families and Hindu families at our school. It is what it is, and you can't be overly afraid of these things.
And if kids want to create decorations for their own family celebrations, so be it. It should be allowed. It doesn't mean that the school is supporting it.
We have people coming in to discuss Diwali and the origins. A parent came into the classroom to talk about Jewish holy days earlier in the year. Nobody comes in to talk about the origins of Christmas. I'm okay with that because it's so permeated throughout society that most kids know. But, if someone mentioned God or Christ, it's not the end of the world, either.
Now, a teacher (or in this case school nurse) who places that quote on the wall....
That's an entirely different matter.