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[guillaumeb]

This message was self-deleted by its author (guillaumeb) on Tue Oct 17, 2017, 10:27 PM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[JHan]

1. Fox news dusted up faux outrage about the Podesta Email exchange about fundamentalist Catholics

The outrage lasted in the headlines of some publications for two weeks. I think a Catholic-Bishop-I-do-not-like-but-cannot-name-right-now came out and demanded an apology from the Clinton camp. This may have had an effect.




Sigh

[rug]

3. Allow me. Archbishop Charles J. Chaput of Philadelphia.

Welcome to DU.

[JHan]

7. Yep, that's him. And Thanks for the welcome :)

[jodymarie aimee]

4. It was printed in bulletins and preached from the pulpit

If you vote DEM you are voting for Satan. My Dad is a Catholic priest. This was so absolutely out there and nuts. Against the church's teachings, but those shits did it anyway. Obscene.

[trotsky]

9. Yet it happened.

Deal with it. Quit attacking others for simply pointing out reality.

[trotsky]

12. Yeah, attack.

It's your standard M.O. I have been repeatedly smeared and insulted by you, had my motives questioned, etc. It is very interesting behavior to observe from a person who claims to be a Christian. But then again, totally unsurprising given the behavior of so many others who also claim to be a Christian.

It would be nice to see you act as a good example of your faith, and refrain from the misleading and false attacks you've launched on myself and others. The fake quotes you've made up. The bogus accusations you've made. Christians, we are often told, are above such tactics. It is sad to see them used here on DU by allegedly progressive Christians.

[trotsky]

16. Ah the "I know you are, what am I?" defense. Classic.

I have decided that religion CAN be bad, and that there are certain elements of it that take what's bad and make things WORSE. I've made that very clear with my posts here. I am sick and tired of your false claims, your false charges, and your personal attacks.

You owe me an apology.

[rug]

6. If you don't mind, how is your father a Catholic priest?

I can think of two ways but I'm curious.

[trotsky]

8. Yeah, really.

Deal with it.

And knock off the continuing personal attacks regarding what you imagine are other people's motives.

No one has "characterize(d) 'Catholics' as a homogenous (sic) group of intolerant right wingers." NO ONE DID THAT. You saying so doesn't make it true. That's the FOX News approach.

[trotsky]

10. More research

http://historynewsnetwork.org/article/164495

CNN’s exit polls show that Trump/Pence took the Catholic vote by 52 percent to 45 percent. Given the large numbers of Catholics in swing states such as Florida, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin — all states that Trump won — winning the Catholic vote by a notable margin certainly helped him achieve victory overall.

[trotsky]

15. Then winning any group of people is "truly meaningless."

If all the gun owners who didn't vote, had voted for Hillary, she probably would have won that group. Who cares? It's about the people who vote. They decide the election. And a 7% split is not "evenly divided." Nope.

If you think the exit polls are inaccurate, then provide your evidence. There is absolutely no reason to believe CNN faked exit poll results. That is an irresponsible and reckless claim.

Look, I understand that you believe a person can never be truly motivated by their religion to do things that you don't approve of. You've made that crystal clear with your posts here in the Religion group. But that is merely your opinion, your attempt to lay the blame of everything bad done in the name of religion at the feet of non-belief or secular thought. I will not tolerate such hatred directed at the non-religious, and so I will oppose you at every turn.

[trotsky]

18. Let's look at this term, "misrepresentation," shall we?

In your OP, you made this claim:

"any posts that attempt to characterize 'Catholics' as a homogenous group of intolerant right wingers is doomed to fail because of its gross oversimplification"

Where is such a post? Who characterized Catholics as a homogeneous group of intolerant right wingers? Where was this done?

I'll wait right here for you to post your evidence supporting your claim. When you have done so, we can discuss the next charge of misrepresentation.

[trotsky]

22. Nope, you don't get to change the subject.

Let's talk about YOUR initial claim in YOUR post. When you've substantiated your claim, we can address mine.

Show me where the post is that characterized Catholics as a monolithic right-wing group. Back up your claim, or retract it. Provide the evidence.

[trotsky]

29. You made the first claim.

Let's address it first. Then we can deal with my claims.

Go ahead. Step up and defend your claim.

[trotsky]

31. Good. You've identified the post. Step 1.

Now back up your claim. Where did I "characterize 'Catholics' as a homogenous (sic) group of intolerant right wingers" in that post?

[trotsky]

39. "Nuanced enough?"

Give me a fucking break.

Then you must admit your claim was FALSE. I did NOT "characterize 'Catholics' as a homogenous (sic) group of intolerant right wingers."

Show some decency. Retract your FALSE claim and apologize. Wouldn't that be the "Christian" thing to do?

[trotsky]

45. Nope.

If you don't have the decency to retract and apologize for your false claim, I have no desire whatsoever to continue with your distraction.

[trotsky]

49. Not until you retract your false claim and apologize.

Until you do that, I have every reason to doubt your sincerity in this discussion.

[trotsky]

51. Retract and apologize.

Once you have done so, this discussion can continue.

You admitted your claim was about my post. Quit playing this game, show some decency, and just apologize.

[rug]

53. Lol.

You're one step from a swoon.

[Goblinmonger]

19. Um, "If one in four Catholic women admitted to having an abortion"

That study doesn't say that.

Your quotation:

The survey found that seven in 10 women who had an abortion identified themselves as Christian. Breaking that down, Catholic women represented 27 percent; Protestant, 26 percent; and nondenominational, 15 percent. Among Protestants, the top three denominations represented among women who had abortions were Baptist (33 percent), Episcopal (6 percent), Church of Christ (4 percent).

That does NOT mean that 1:4 Catholic women admit to having an abortion. It DOES mean that of the women surveyed who have had an abortion, 27% of 70% (those that identify Christian) were Catholic.

[trotsky]

23. "misrepresentation"

LMFAO.

[trotsky]

27. Ah, thanks.

Another personal attack on my intelligence.

[trotsky]

34. Your edit STILL misrepresents the study.

It's not "one in four Catholic women who were surveyed." You are WRONG.

The survey was directed at women who had an abortion, not women who are Catholic. SOME of the women who took the survey identified as Catholic.

Fix it again.

[trotsky]

37. Nope, I am right, and you are wrong.

Read your link again, and answer this: Was it Catholic women, as you claim, or was it women who have had an abortion? WHO was surveyed?

[trotsky]

43. Retract and apologize for your false claim about my post.

And then we can analyze my four so-called "misrepresentations."

Do the "Christian" thing. Retract and apologize. Show how much better you are than me. Show everyone what a horrible, evil atheist I am.

[trotsky]

47. Retract and apologize. n/t

[AtheistCrusader]

26. Is it really so surprising?

Catholics and Mormons, in the blue state of California (which solidly went for Hillary this election) managed to amend the state constitution to deny same sex marriage.

In. California. Not just exit polls, you can follow the money easily enough.

[Act_of_Reparation]

33. You've not heard of Prop 8?

[AtheistCrusader]

35. Sure.

Prop 8 background:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_%282008%29

The battle to expose the donors.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/02/02/prop-8-donors-find-out-wh_n_163234.html

Mormon/Catholic alliance:
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Catholics-Mormons-allied-to-pass-Prop-8-3185965.php

These are the assholes that vandalized the Pledge with 'under god' in '57, and paper money in '54.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/knights_of_columbus_contributes_1_million_to_prop_8_campaign/

More came to light during the court efforts to overturn it.
https://www.au.org/church-state/march-2010-church-state/people-events/prop-8-trial-unmasks-role-of-religious-groups-in

Boies and Olson have introduced into evidence memos and e-mails that show how leaders of the Roman Catholic Church and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) worked in concert to win passage of Prop. 8.

And an analysis of the vote breakdown, by district. Keep in mind, religiosity is a strong predictor of party affiliation.55% of Catholics identified as voting for Prop 8. That sounds like... not much really, about 50/50. But*

http://www.thetaskforce.org/static_html/downloads/issues/egan_sherrill_prop8_1_6_09.pdf


* Religious affiliation by county:

California is dominated by Catholics.
(Incidentally, the only reason California didn't go for Trump, is the Hispanic Catholic contingent, which didn't oppose him on religious grounds, they did so on ethnic grounds because he's a spectacularly racist asshole that clearly hates them and where most of them are from.)

[AtheistCrusader]

52. Don't have to be a full-blown conservative catholic to latch on to a single issue, like same sex

marriage. Or a couple issues.

Hillary massively benefited from a large percentage of the catholic population of California being Hispanic. In the end, it didn't matter, but it was still helpful.

[Act_of_Reparation]

32. It means the Catholic vote has come to resemble the general public vote.

[Act_of_Reparation]

54. Let me explain:

The Catholic vote has come to resemble the general vote in that it is divided along similar demographic lines. It means the Catholic vote is not as uniform and predictive as it once was, not that the Catholic vote will always be with the GE winner.