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cbayer

(146,218 posts)
Tue Apr 24, 2012, 03:19 PM Apr 2012

Democrats Have Bigger Anti-Mormon Problem in Election Than GOP Has

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/23/democrats-have-bigger-anti-mormon-problem-in-election-than-gop.html
by Peter Beinart
Apr 23, 2012 4:45 AM EDT


Polls show 27 percent of Democrats would not vote for a Mormon, versus 18 percent of Republicans. There are votes in anti-Mormonism, but the Obama campaign must resist any temptation to play on it.



With just over six months before Election Day, the 2012 presidential campaign looks dull but astonishing. It’s dull because Barack Obama no longer elicits the kind of passion he did in 2008, and Mitt Romney has never elicited much passion at all. But it’s astonishing because it features an African-American and a Mormon, two of the most discriminated-against groups in American history. In the year of Romney’s birth (1947) or Obama’s (1961), the idea that a presidential election would one day pit an American of Romney’s religion versus an American of Obama’s race would have boggled the mind.


When Obama first ran in 2008, Republicans wrestled with how to attack him without playing on antiblack bigotry. Now it’s the Democrats’ turn to be tempted. In the United States anti-Mormon bigotry has remained remarkably durable. According to Gallup, the percentage of Americans who say they would not vote for a Catholic, a woman, an African-American, or a Jew has dropped sharply since the 1960s and 1970s. The percentage saying they would not vote for a Mormon, however, hasn’t budged. In 1967, the first year Gallup asked the question, 17 percent of Americans said they would not back a Mormon candidate. When Gallup asked again last summer, the figure had risen to 22 percent.

Despite the media’s obsession with the alleged anti-Mormonism of evangelical Christians, the party with the larger anti-Mormon problem is the Democrats. According to Gallup, while only 18 percent of Republicans said they would oppose a Mormon candidate, among Democrats the figure was 27 percent. As if on cue, Montana’s Democratic governor, Brian Schweitzer, last week volunteered that women would not back Romney because his father was “born on a polygamy commune in Mexico.”

To its credit, the Obama campaign repudiated Schweitzer’s statement. But between now and Election Day, anti-Mormonism is going to be the Democratic Party’s constant temptation for one simple reason: there are votes in it.


more at link
26 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Democrats Have Bigger Anti-Mormon Problem in Election Than GOP Has (Original Post) cbayer Apr 2012 OP
Way to gin up ... 1StrongBlackMan Apr 2012 #1
No Problem EC Apr 2012 #2
I think the point of the article is that it is tempting to go after Romney's religion cbayer Apr 2012 #7
I completely agree davidthegnome Apr 2012 #9
I really like the conclusion of this article cbayer Apr 2012 #10
If Huntsman would have been a democratic I could have voted for him maybe. He is conservative southernyankeebelle Apr 2012 #3
You say "conservative" like it's a good thing. 2ndAmForComputers Apr 2012 #11
At least he isn't a teabagger. southernyankeebelle Apr 2012 #12
I have higher standards. 2ndAmForComputers Apr 2012 #19
Me too. southernyankeebelle Apr 2012 #21
How was the poll conducted? I'm Christian, but I won't vote for someone BlueCaliDem Apr 2012 #4
Sorry. You can read more at the link (which I initially forgot to include) cbayer Apr 2012 #8
Poll here: muriel_volestrangler Apr 2012 #13
And what do you know--half wouldn't vote for an atheist. laconicsax Apr 2012 #15
I can't research it right now, but I think that number is changing for the positive cbayer Apr 2012 #16
No change for atheists in 12 years - not much in 24 muriel_volestrangler Apr 2012 #17
What do you make of that, Muriel? cbayer Apr 2012 #18
Why do you think it is, cbayer? trotsky Apr 2012 #25
I don't know - American churchgoers would be better able to answer muriel_volestrangler Apr 2012 #26
What! No Scientologist? AlbertCat Apr 2012 #23
Where's the link? sinkingfeeling Apr 2012 #5
Sorry about that. Added it while you were typing response! cbayer Apr 2012 #6
I disagree with Beinart muriel_volestrangler Apr 2012 #14
The second way in which Democrats justify anti-Mormonism is via the LDS Church’s own flirtation... dimbear Apr 2012 #20
I think that probably has something to do with the fact that the GOP have a mormon nominee fishwax Apr 2012 #22
Did these polls come before or after Prop H8? darkstar3 Apr 2012 #24
 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
1. Way to gin up ...
Tue Apr 24, 2012, 03:24 PM
Apr 2012

a non-issue. I would expect President Obama to go out a campaign on "Vote for me because I'm (half) Black"; before he would go anti-mormon.

Besides ... Fact is, President Obama, and Democrats, do not even have to go there; the teaparty/gop/fundie base is already there.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
7. I think the point of the article is that it is tempting to go after Romney's religion
Reply to EC (Reply #2)
Tue Apr 24, 2012, 03:53 PM
Apr 2012

because the polls show that there are votes to be gained by doing so.

But it would be a mistake to do so (and really antithetical Democratic values, imo)

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
10. I really like the conclusion of this article
Tue Apr 24, 2012, 06:03 PM
Apr 2012

"Democrats should remember the fear and revulsion they felt when conservatives played on Obama’s race and do everything humanly possible to prevent their party mates from doing the same. It’s important that Barack Obama wins this election, but for the country’s sake, it’s important that Mormonism not lose."

BlueCaliDem

(15,438 posts)
4. How was the poll conducted? I'm Christian, but I won't vote for someone
Tue Apr 24, 2012, 03:36 PM
Apr 2012

because of their religion nor would I vote for them because they don't have one. I really don't care. I want to know what policies they'll try to implement in order to make our lives, collectively, better, i.e., how to tackle unemployment. If they're open to a living wage. Will they not waste money on wars (that's usually kept a secret until they're elected), if they're friendly with other nations who can help us. Things like that.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,264 posts)
13. Poll here:
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 09:09 AM
Apr 2012
http://www.gallup.com/poll/148100/hesitant-support-mormon-2012.aspx

The question was:
"If your party nominated a generally well-qualified person for president who happened to be (ITEM A-I READ IN ORDER), would you vote for that person?"

 

laconicsax

(14,860 posts)
15. And what do you know--half wouldn't vote for an atheist.
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 03:19 PM
Apr 2012

There's no discrimination against atheists in the US.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
16. I can't research it right now, but I think that number is changing for the positive
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 03:36 PM
Apr 2012

pretty consistently.

OTOH, the numbers for GLBT people are definitely looking better.

It's the trends that are important. The fact that discrimination exists is not at issue, imo. It does.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,264 posts)
17. No change for atheists in 12 years - not much in 24
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 04:31 PM
Apr 2012

[div style="font-size:1.07em; font-family:monospace; white-space:pre;"]
B. An atheist

Yes No No opinion
2011 Jun 9-12 49 49 3
2007 Dec 6-9 46 48 6
2007 Mar 2-4 48 48 4
2007 Feb 9-11 45 53 3
1999 Feb 19-21 49 48 3
1987 Aug 10-13 44 48 8
1983 Apr 29-May 2 42 51 7
1978 Jul 21-24 40 53 7
1959 Dec 10-15 22 74 5
1958 Sep 10-15 18 77 5
1958 Jul 30-Aug 4 18 75 7

http://www.gallup.com/poll/File/148112/Otherwise_Well_Qualif_Candidate_110620.pdf

Yes, GLBT went from 66% no in 1978 to 32% no in 2011.

trotsky

(49,533 posts)
25. Why do you think it is, cbayer?
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 07:19 AM
Apr 2012

After making up a claim without doing any research and then being proven wrong with the actual data (showing that the trend is "no change&quot , what do you have to say?

muriel_volestrangler

(101,264 posts)
26. I don't know - American churchgoers would be better able to answer
Thu Apr 26, 2012, 08:59 AM
Apr 2012

since that's where I think you'll find people who wouldn't vote for an atheist on principle. If any DUer could ask people in churches if they feel that way, and if so why, it would be good to know.

One guess: some theists feel that people without a belief in a supreme being will behave how they want, without a concern for retribution (apart from the criminal law). Perhaps they think the US presidency is so powerful a position that only the risk of everlasting hell-fire can keep the president in line. Polls that ask about a Muslim president as well do seem to show a Muslim would be more popular than an atheist, eg http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2011/11/09/would-you-be-comfortable-with-an-atheist-president-2011-survey-says/ - Republican and Independent numbers about the same, but Democrats significantly more comfortable with a Muslim president than an atheist one.

Call them 'not religious' and the numbers get a bit better. When talking about the groups, rather than a presidential candidate, notice that both evangelical Christians, and non-Christians (religious only, or not, I'm not sure), think atheists are worse than scientologists. When you're more unpopular than a bunch of cult con-artists, you know there's a mountain to climb. But look how ads saying "you can be good without God", which is the basic message needed to erase the fear of atheists, get attacked. In a final attempt to be completely non-offensive, while making a joke to those who've followed the 'atheist billboard' wars, they're going to use this:



Another possibility: Americans of a certain age were brainwashed to associate 'atheist' with 'communist'. However, I'd have expected that effect to continue to wear off.

 

AlbertCat

(17,505 posts)
23. What! No Scientologist?
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 07:56 PM
Apr 2012

Depends on how devout they are.


Most people are the same religion as their parents/ community. The actual beliefs seem to have little to do with anything. But anyone too hung up on superstitions is not a good choice.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,264 posts)
14. I disagree with Beinart
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 09:23 AM
Apr 2012

He suggests

The second way in which Democrats justify their anti-Mormonism is via the LDS Church’s own flirtation with bigotry. Until 1978 the Church of Latter-day Saints would not ordain men of African descent into the priesthood. And as recently as 2008, the church organized massively to ban gay marriage in California. It wouldn’t be surprising, therefore, if one reason Democrats are more anti-Mormon than Republicans is because African-Americans, gays, and lesbians are more anti-Mormon. But using the church’s historic (and even present-day) intolerance to justify intolerance toward its members is idiotic. LDS is hardly the only faith with a history of antiblack racism, and individual Mormons should be held no more responsible for the LDS Church’s antigay views than individual Catholics should be held responsible for the Vatican’s.


Romney was a bishop in the LDS church for over 12 years. He was part of its hierarchy.

While serving as bishop of a Mormon congregation near Boston in the early 80’s, Romney once threatened to excommunicate a young single mother if she did not give her soon-to-be-born son up for adoption, according to a passage from a forthcoming book, “The Real Romney.” excerpted this week in Vanity Fair.

http://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppins/bishop-romney-pressured-single-mother-to-give-up-b

dimbear

(6,271 posts)
20. The second way in which Democrats justify anti-Mormonism is via the LDS Church’s own flirtation...
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 06:26 PM
Apr 2012

In a nutshell, this is why I am declaring my usual liberal religious tolerance to be on hiatus for Romney.

Flirtation is perhaps not the most apt word. Better: failed marriage. The Mormons had the unmitigated audacity and gall to declare that during the period in which they discriminated against blacks, blacks had made sufficient spiritual progress to be admitted to the priesthood. In 1978.

Not "uh, we were wrong." Blacks grew up. Kinda stings, doesn't it?

A few years from now gays are going to grow up. Count on it. After the LDS church has extracted every dime it can persecuting them.

fishwax

(29,148 posts)
22. I think that probably has something to do with the fact that the GOP have a mormon nominee
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 07:46 PM
Apr 2012

I'm not saying that is all of it, but I think the numbers would be different if this race were between, say, Harry Reid and Rick Santorum. Then, too, since the doctrine and political activity of the church tends to favor GOP policies, it makes sense that more democrats would see a Mormon candidate as likely outside their voting pattern.

On edit: I realize these polls were taken before Romney became the presumptive nominee, but the GOP has known he was a likely contender for the last 4+ years.

darkstar3

(8,763 posts)
24. Did these polls come before or after Prop H8?
Wed Apr 25, 2012, 11:11 PM
Apr 2012

Most people who will actually respond to pollsters, identify as a democrat, and state their honest opinion about whether or not they would vote for a mormon are going to be people who know all about the LDS backing of Prop H8, and I think that would color the results.

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