An Atheist’s Open Letter to Those Praying for His Son

[rug]

Exhausted parents on the day Grayson was born

Kevin Davis / 20 hours ago

As many of my readers have noticed, I haven’t posted anything in about a month. That’s because on April 27, my life got exponentially busier, when my wife went into preterm labor and delivered our son 12 weeks early. Grayson now lays in the local neonatal intensive care unit, where he’s been since he was born. He’s doing well and continues to grow and gain weight, but the experience has been draining — physically, emotionally, and financially. As things normalize and he comes home, activity on DividedUnderGod.com will resume and most likely increase, since the field of GOP presidential hopefuls is an ever-expanding source of church/state separation editorial fodder. I don’t normally post personal stories such as this, but since I’ve found myself in a situation that has caused monumental frustration — with my only true sympathetic outlet being my wife (who is probably tired of hearing my rants by now) — I’ve decided to turn to the loyal audience of my blog. I hope that you’ll read this, and more importantly, share it with believers, so they better understand what goes through an atheist’s mind when we hear, “Sending you prayers,” or something similar.

The following open letter may upset you. You may feel insulted because when it comes to matters of faith, people are more apt to take criticism personally and react defensively when their religious beliefs are brought into question. Please know it is not my intent to offend, because as I said earlier, I am truly grateful for the offers of support and kind words from family and friends. But sometimes we’re faced with emotional situations that escalate to a boiling point. I’m at that point, and it’s time to open a vent.

I’d like to open this letter by acknowledging and thanking those who have shared that they’re praying for my son, who was born prematurely and since then has resided in our local neonatal intensive care unit. I realize your intentions are good and that you believe your prayers are helping him grow stronger. By appealing to a deity that you believe exists and listens to your pleas, you feel you’re offering your support and contributing to my son’s cause in some way. Because I realize you believe you’re helping, I thank you for doing what you feel will help my son get healthy and strong.

However, my wife and I are atheists. We don’t believe in the supernatural, and we have good reasons for that, but that’s a topic for another day. We have placed our trust in science and modern medicine, and we are absolutely amazed at what is possible, thanks to medical research and man’s advanced understanding of biological sciences. In fact, if we had not placed our trust in medicine, or lived in different times, or belonged to a religion that frowns upon fertility treatments or medically assisted conception, we would not have any children at all.



Grayson in his bed at Strong Memorial Hospital in Rochester, NY

http://dividedundergod.com/2015/05/27/an-atheists-open-letter-to-those-praying-for-his-son/

[cbayer]

1. I hope his son does well.

[SheilaT]

2. Good letter.

I get so tired of hearing people say they'll pray for something or another when anyone with half a brain should understand that real help is needed. Such as when there's an earthquake somewhere. Or flooding. Or terrible illness.

[cbayer]

4. There is absolutely no reason to think that people offer prayers as a substitute for

all the other things that can be done.

Religiously based relief agencies are generally front and center whenever there is a natural disaster or when someone is in need.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. "Religiously based relief agencies " generally use part of the money you mistakenly give them

to use each crisis as an opportunity to try to convert the vulnerable to their religion. Please give your money to the many wonderful secular relief agencies that use ALL of their money to provide real services to those in need.

[uppityperson]

14. which secular NGOs do you mean as even MSF has overhead? Thanks and I an genuinely curious.

[Warren Stupidity]

18. They all have overhead. That isn't the issue.

Religious charities, almost all of them, use your money for "spiritual" activities. They proselytize vulnerable people.

Indeed you should also make sure that their use of funds is efficient.

[uppityperson]

22. thanks for the reply. I tried to volunteered for one, but was turned down only because wouldn't

proselytize. I ended up joining Peace Corps, but the dozen nuggets they'd recruited were died at the end of a 1 week training session t false they didn't want or needed nurses but instead bland boring people who'd go to late if the country that hadn't seen Americans before I preparation for nurses in the future. Liberia, 1980. I had been accepted in 1976 but decided to work for a while, get some experience rather than go to Nicaragua or Iran. After all 3 of my options had coupé's within a yr of my not going, I decided to not try again, but that's another story.

Even some secular NGOs spend a tiny % of the money on the need, so make sure they use it properly. This is a reason Red Cross of America makes me do angry after disasters in other countries. Yes, if is simple to text some # but rarely does that money go to the current disaster, even domestic current disaster. It can take some time and effort to find an organization using donations to help Nepal quake survivors, or cancer research, but donating in the easiest way may raise awareness but does little to help those in need.

Not aimed at you Warren as we are in agreement but piggybacking in the hopes of educating others.

[yeoman6987]

26. No and that is all about choice

Everyone should be able to donate money where they want. You are free to give to non religious agencies as others are able to give to religious agencies. I can't tell others what to do with their hard earned money. That's just wrong.

[SheilaT]

13. It's my observation that people who offer prayers

almost always offer nothing else.

Or when they say the pious bullshit about how God wanted another angel to explain the death of a child, or saying God spared this one particular person in a catastrophe, and completely absolving God from his murder of all those who died.

[cbayer]

17. Your observations are consistent with your confirmation bias but not

with data concerning charitable giving.

https://philanthropy.com/article/Religious-Americans-Give-More/153973

How do you feel about people who send good wishes? Positive vibes? Are they as heinous as people who pray for someone?

[SheilaT]

20. I am not the one saying people who pray are heinous.

But an invisible friend isn't going to do anything substantive. That's all.

[yeoman6987]

27. Please provide a link to that study

[SheilaT]

33. I did not say anything about a study.

Just my own personal observation. Someone's invisible friend isn't going to help much when there's some sort of real need out there.

[yeoman6987]

34. You made factual statements

Just thought you could back them up. No biggie.

[SheilaT]

39. Gosh. All factual statements need to be backed by a study?

What a novel idea.

[cbayer]

40. You clearly said it was your observation.

You are not obligated to provide data to back it up at all. I challenged you with some data, but whether you respond in kind is completely up to you.

[cbayer]

35. Despite your "invisible friend" snark, some people get guidance and strength from prayer

and that's a very real help in some circumstances. May not help you, but why would you feel the need to take that help away from others.

I'm not a believer, but I know exactly what people mean when they way they are praying for me and I greatly appreciate it.

[SheilaT]

41. What I am responding to is

the way so many people who "believe in the power of prayer" seem to think that just by invoking their invisible friend, things will magically be made right. It's magical thinking at its most dangerous. So long as so many people persist in such magical thinking the real work of science will be delayed, or even interfered with.

This is one and the same with the sort of hypocrisy that has Ted Cruz voting against federal aid for New Jersey after Hurricane Sandy, because the federal government shouldn't be involved, and yet asking for that very same aid now that Texas has been hard hit by climate change floodwaters. Or the people that don't believe in certain aspects of medical research, and yet happily accept the results of that research to cure their own diseases.

I don't really care of others find comfort in their imaginary invisible friend. Just don't expect others to do the same.

[cbayer]

42. What you say about those who believe in prayer are only your assumptions.

For many people, it is just an indication that they are thinking of other, wishing the best for others. It's the same as sending good vibes or similar kinds of things. It's just a way of saying that they are there.

There is nothing dangerous about praying for something unless it is done in lieu of other actions, which is just generally not the case. There are religious beliefs that do harm and impede progress, and I fully agree that they should be countered vigorously.

Ted Cruz's votes are driven by his libertarian ideology and political ambitions. He uses religion to justify some of his positions, and we can all agree that he needs to be challenged at every turn.

What's with the "imaginaery invisible friend" references? Many people believe in god and have many different concepts. Your phrase seems only an attempt to be dismissive and put others down.

I agree that no one should expect others to adopt their ways of seeing the world, but I also think that mocking others for their beliefs or lack of beliefs is similar to that kind of expectation.

[SheilaT]

44. To quote you:

There is nothing dangerous about praying for something unless it is done in lieu of other actions, which is just generally not the case. There are religious beliefs that do harm and impede progress, and I fully agree that they should be countered vigorously.

All too often the praying is done in lieu of other actions. Like the climate denial in Texas, but the governor calling for three days of prayer for rain when they were in drought. Meanwhile, the officials of that state still refuse to understand anything at all about what's actually going on, and have recently shot down bills that would take it into account things like water availability, weather variability, and climate change itself in their planning. But prayer? Yep.

It's not just praying in lieu of other actions, but praying and blocking other actions that's too common.

And I have no problem putting down a belief in an invisible sky fairy when those "believers" have no qualms whatsoever about putting down people like me. Tolerance needs to go both ways.

[cbayer]

45. You continue to make the same statement about people praying

instead of doing something.

Your example of climate change is a good one and an excellent example of when religious belief impedes progress. There is no doubt that that happens and there is much to object to when that happens.

But you really can not extrapolate that to praying in general. Religious organizations and individuals provide massive amounts of non-governmental services to those most in need in this country and throughout the world.

Do you have examples of believers here putting you down? Tolerance does need to go both ways, and if someone here has disrespected you for being an atheist or non-believer, then you have good reason to push back. But does your blanket dismissive denigration of believers really apply to the believers who participate on this site? Is the purpose to exercise some vengeance for the wrongs done by others who are not here or represented by anyone here?

[AuntPatsy]

3. He's so cute...poor guy...

[Warren Stupidity]

6. In conclusion...

So when you tell me you’re praying for Grayson, I’m going to be gracious and say thank you. But know this — your gesture does more to make you feel better than it does to comfort me or help my son fight for his life in his incubator. Everything does not happen for a reason, and my two children are anything but god’s plan. I feel grateful every single day for mankind’s scientific and medical advancements.

'xactly.

Please read the entire "open letter".

[Heddi]

9. mmmhmmm

[Bugs23]

12. Yes.

I understand and agree 100 percent with what you said. I suffered a stroke when I was 23 and everyone kept telling me "oh god pulled you through, he's why you're still here with us" and I had to explain to them these doctors are why I'm still here. Where was their god when I collapsed on my floor from a brain bleed. Your son is a fighter who's going to come through this a strong and healthy little boy . Keep doing what your doing, a little rant every now and then is good for you. Best wishes to you and your family

[rug]

21. Here's the end.

Thank you for allowing me to blow off some steam. If you’d like to help, I’ve set up a GoFundMe page to help offset Grayson’s hospital costs and any applicable extra care he may need when he finally comes home. You can find it here: gofundme.com/GraysonFund.

http://www.gofundme.com/GraysonFund

[okasha]

25. Yep.

"Don't pray for my son. Send me money."

[truebrit71]

29. Makes sense. Hospitals are not cheap. Prayers are.

...

[AtheistCrusader]

30. Money is Of actual use, in this case.

Neonatal intensive care is expensive. Even at 90% coverage, that could be tens of thousands in hospital bills, with no end in sight.

By the way, extremely dishonest to put that in double quotes, when you're busy fabricating what you probably think is a paraphrase. Authors should know better.

[okasha]

31. Not a paraphrase.

An abstract.

[AtheistCrusader]

32. Still not something you put in double quotes.

[mr blur]

36. Stay classy.

[Warren Stupidity]

37. And what do you think would be more effective, prayer or money?

[AlbertCat]

43. "Don't pray for my son. Send me money."

So compassionate of you!

Why can't a church send some money? They certainly beg and weasel their way into plenty of it. Maybe they could send some that should have gone towards...oh... property taxes.

[phil89]

53. IF people want to help

hes giving them a real way to help his son. That's a good thing. Better than magical thinking for sure.

[Goblinmonger]

48. What's wrong with that?

Or are you trying to help him raise funds?

[Heddi]

7. I liked the assholes in the comment sections who were like

"i'm gonna pray for you and your family because you don't understand REAL prayer."

Nothing like being Christian-splained about non-belief

[struggle4progress]

8. "Your son has often been in my thoughts and I'm hoping everything turns out well"

Well, you need to realize that thinking about my son doesn't do diddly-squat, and your hopes for him are utterly worthless!
"I can't help it: I really want the little guy to have a long full life"
Just keep on deluding yourself that your good wishes accomplish anything other than making you feel good, you useless hypocritical POS!


I think we might appropriately regard this as lashing out at any convenient target

[Heddi]

10. Why are you referring to yourself in your last line?

I understand you're going to weasel-out and claim that because you didn't use quotes, you're not actually QUOTING him, but you're attributing comments to him that he never made. He never called prayer worthless, he never used the term "diddly squat" and he didn't call anyone a useless hypocritical POS.


Here are his actual words


"There’s a reason that the sick go to hospitals full of doctors and nurses when they need healing, instead of seeking out faith healers or priests, or staying home to pray as their only means of treatment. It’s because most believers realize that prayer isn’t an effective cure for anything. Even so, the religious are so quick to thank their god when they or loved ones recover from illnesses rather than show their gratitude to the men and women who made it their life’s work to treat the sick. Let’s be honest, if an all-knowing, all-powerful and all-loving god wants to heal the sick or let them die, what’s your prayer going to do? Aren’t you just telling him something he already knows? Aren’t you asking him for something he already knows you want? Isn’t your god going to do what he wants despite your pleas? Isn’t that your rationale when your prayers aren’t “answered”… that it was “God’s will”? So really, what’s the point? And that’s IF (a monumental IF) a deity exists and you’re praying to the right one, out of the >2000 that have been worshipped throughout human history."

"So now you’re thinking, “So what? What does it hurt that I want to pray for you?” It’s not that it hurts anything or anyone directly. Your prayers are your prerogative. By telling us you’re praying, you’re saying to us that you want to do something to help, and that’s appreciated. But the avenue of assistance that you’ve chosen is one that we feel is an ineffective one. You’re telling us, “I’m going to do something for you that has no value to you. I’m really doing it to make me feel like I’m helping.”

"So when you tell me you’re praying for Grayson, I’m going to be gracious and say thank you. But know this — your gesture does more to make you feel better than it does to comfort me or help my son fight for his life in his incubator. Everything does not happen for a reason, and my two children are anything but god’s plan. I feel grateful every single day for mankind’s scientific and medical advancements."

No "worthless," no "diddly-squat," no "useless hypocritical POS."

I mean, you can search the whole document. It's not there.

At least you let us know that anyone reading your post might appropriately regard your post as lashing out at any convenient target.

[moriah]

23. Eh, I sorta had a bit of the same reaction that guy did, so ....

... maybe I can take a shot at explaining why it came across similarly to me too. The bolded places are good, and he did explain that it was a vent (and if anyone has the right to have stuff to vent it's someone fighting for their child's life). However, there's a three letter word after each one, and what follows undercuts the good statements.

He said he feels that prayer is "ineffective" and "has no value". What's the definition of "worthless"? Having no value? Wouldn't "useless" also be another close synonym? It's a paraphrase, not an exact quote, but the gist is similar. Well, the common expressions "Wishing you the best" or "You're in my thoughts" are just as useless if you only believe in rational science and not the power of positive thinking (which is what prayer pretty much is). So is the fact prayer is ineffective the only reason they're offended? Do they feel offended by the friends who said those similar, innocuous phrases too?

The part you quoted certainly clues us into why they're taking offense -- because some Christians say God doesn't want fertility treatments to happen, or that infertility shouldn't be challenged because it's "God's plan", he is saying he thinks if God exists He would actually think that. Obviously they've had way too many people who felt that way try to push their beliefs on them during their infertility struggles. That sucks, and those people who pushed and preached at them suck too. Mean people suck.

But, okay, my thought is that if God existed and was omnipotent and all that jazz, He'd not have let people gain that knowledge (IVF or fertility treatments, or sterilization, birth control, or abortion for that matter) if he didn't want us to use it. If God exists and if He created us, He certainly gave us our minds, which have collaborated over the centuries to continue to advance human knowledge. If He didn't want their kids to have been born, He wouldn't have let us learn how fertility worked. Just because some Christians preach something doesn't make it so -- and I think they'd agree with at least that statement. Attributing all that meanness that some Christians have shown toward them to every person who says "I'll pray for you"... well, it may be understandable, but it's not exactly good.

I'm Pagan, so I am rather cognizant that some of my more Christian friends might not *want* me to pray for them. Most Christians are so used to their thoughts being the dominant paradigm, though, and don't think about that. Maybe some really do say "I'm praying for you" to make themselves feel better. But most do it the same way I say "I'm thinking of you guys, and wishing you the best". (I have been known to say that and then ask if someone minded if I prayed for them.)

In the *vast* majority of cases, I have realized it's pointless to try to educate the plethora of well-meaning but dim Christians I run into throughout life that not everyone believes the same way they do, and just try to take them at their intent. I had an extremely religious coworker at my last job. She was legitimately sweet, and took a *lot* of crap from people (one of the night shift guys decided to gaslight her into thinking he was a Satanist... geez). She invited me to her church soon after I started, when I was working on Easter. She knew I was new to the area, assumed I was Christian, and said if i hadn't already found a "church home" here that she'd be happy to have me come with her. I dodged the issue of my own faith by saying that my mother was Episcopalian and when I was in Little Rock I went to church with her (which was true, but not the whole truth). Later on when we got to know each other better, she did eventually learn I was Pagan -- but by then realized I was also a sweet person, so was able to ask questions rationally and get answers rather than run away screaming making the sign of the Cross.

I'm too poor to donate to their GoFundMe, though, so I really can't do much directly for them, except to try to say I care. So I hope they wouldn't be offended by learning that they were in my thoughts.

[Heddi]

24. All those words and not one viable reason to lie about what the man said

The guy in the OP didn't use the words Struggle4Progress attributed to him. It was a sleazy thing to do. He made up his own dialogue for some reason, when I think that the man who wrote the letter was pretty clear about his reasons for feeling the way he does. He seemed to be rather skilled at letting his own thoughts be known, and I pity the person who needs S4P's "editorializing" to get the point the author was trying to make.

I'm not sure why or how your life story and personal feelings about prayer have anything to do with why S4P attributed words that weren't used or implied by the author of the letter. Your personal feelings about prayer are irrelevant to the story, specifically the father's point of view.

Maybe you replied to me accidentally? Or were you thinking that I needed or wanted to hear, once again, from someone about how awesome and harmless prayer is even when it's made clear that prayers are unwelcome and unwanted? Because that's pretty much what you're doing. You like prayer? Super. Pray away. Ask others for prayer. Realize that not everyone is you, and if someone says they don't want or need your prayers, respect that and decline the need to Pray-'splain why they're wrong and you're right

[moriah]

38. You actually think his "quote" was alledging that was their actual words?

Give me a break.

Look, it's about the fact that most Christians aren't hateful bigots, and when they see a sick baby, they want to reach out to the family to say they care. The way they are most used to doing that is by saying the family is in their prayers.

If people are offended by a simple attempt at a gesture of goodwill, it speaks more to their own issues than to the person trying to say "Hey, I care about you."

Edit: And as for my personal experiences, forgive me. I was raised far more in the 12 Step Program world than any church, and the proper way to communicate about issues in meeting is not to state a judgment or tell people what to do, but to offer your own experience, strength, and hope. I have a tendency to do that in regular conversation on sensitive issues to avoid directly saying "You are making a mistake" -- even if I think they are -- by instead saying why in my experience doing the same thing has been a mistake.

YMMV.

[AtheistCrusader]

46. WheN you insist on telling an atheist 'I'm praying for you' instead of

"hey I care about you" as you put it, it reveals precisely who the statement is most 'for'. It makes the person praying feel better, it is not actually meant for the recipient.

Offering someone bacon wrapped shrimp at a meal might be a nice gesture, but if you insist on offering it to a Muslim, it might be more about your Personal agenda than being nice, and also you might be a dick.

[moriah]

47. And do all atheists have it tattooed on their forehead?

Christians do go through life thinking the majority of people around them are also Christian. And in the US, they're right. Trying to disabuse them of that notion is often futile -- the ones who *were* being dicks aren't going to stop being dicks, and the ones that didn't mean anything bad by it are just going to feel shitty. Since it won't stop the dicks from being dicks, I don't see making the good people feel shitty as being justified.

[AtheistCrusader]

49. That persons entire online public identity is built around the public knowledge he is a atheist.

He is 'out' with his family and friends. And still, he is in undated with prayerful sentiments.

[AtheistCrusader]

50. Also, I love the implied 'you conform to my norm' in your objection.

It's ok for religious people to assume, not ok for atheists to object.

Why can't religious people ask, instead of assume?

[Rob H.]

51. Some people pray anyway, even when they know you're not religious

I have recent firsthand experience of it.

[AtheistCrusader]

52. Do they have to rub it in our faces?

Since prayer goes nowhere and does nothing, why the insistence on telling us they are praying?

[Rob H.]

54. This wasn't just telling, even

It was pulling up a chair at my desk at work and praying for one of my family members who was in home hospice care and days away from dying; I didn't participate, of course, because I don't believe in any of that. The doctors had done everything they could, treatment-wise, and were completely out of options. Praying as if it was going to make a real-world difference was pointless, and frankly, to me, weird.

[AtheistCrusader]

65. That person should have sensed and been sensitive to your discomfort.

That they weren't, tells me that act was for them, not for you.

I wonder if a believer would disagree.

[Mariana]

66. I've had a similar experience.

What's weird is the compulsion by many to advertise their prayers. They feel the need to announce they're going to pray, or they want an audience, as your coworker did. I guess they think God doesn't pay as much attention if they just go off and pray in private and don't tell anyone about it.

[Rob H.]

68. The best way I can think to describe it

is that it was more like "praying at" than "praying with." I appreciated that in his own way he was trying to express sympathy and well-wishes, but it just seemed really weird to me.

[Mariana]

67. Or, religious people could just go and pray privately

without first making sure everyone knows they're doing it. Then this would never be an issue.

[beam me up scottie]

77. Exactly.

They have to shove it in your face - like we're supposed to admire the spectacle.

If they weren't so clueless they'd be embarrassed.

[Lordquinton]

83. you just described religious privilege

Last edited Sat May 30, 2015, 04:31 PM - Edit history (1)

And no, they shouldn't hust assume everyone is ok with prayer, and should not be upset when when hey are called on it.

The religious need to check their privilege, it's rampant and even here people deny it even exists.

[moriah]

88. Yes, I'm aware that I did.

But I'm sure you've banged your head in frustration at least once if you've ever actually tried to make someone (like most white males) believe privilege truly exists. The ones you do convince are rarely the ones who need convincing. The same goes for dealing with fundies -- the dicks are too close-minded for anything said to do a bit of good. It's only the ones who weren't trying to be dicks that get it, and all it does is make them feel crappy for trying to show they care.

So yes, I've found it far easier to just not get my panties in a twist when people assume I am Christian and invite me to church, or when I am going through a rough patch and even the relatives who know I'm not Christian say I'm in their prayers. I take it as it was intended. I don't project my issues with Christianity or the way certain Christians behave on the ones that are trying to be nice.

Of course, sometimes the phrase "I'm praying for you" (or even sometimes "I'm praying for your kids&quot is said in a passive-aggressive tone to suggest that the person who's being prayed for is leading a terrible horrible no good very bad life and is going straight to hell. Getting offended by those type of comments is not the overreaction I'm talking about.

But when they say they're praying for your family when you have a premature kid who's in the hospital, they aren't trying to sound holier-than-thou. They're also usually not under the impression that God is going to magically cure the kid just because they pray, or raise the dead when they say they're praying for you after a relative dies -- usually, the prayer is for strength and courage, etc. They're trying to show they care, that they wish they could help. In most instances, the good ones are already trying to do what tangible things they can do to help -- but often there IS nothing else that can be done by that person.

For example, I can't afford to donate to their GoFundMe, and that's another thing that bothered me about this article. Since the only people whose minds are changed by such an article are not dicks, guilt-tripping the non-dicks by saying that they should be doing something tangible to help and then asking for money suggests a thought process like "Fuck you and your well-wishing, if you can't give me money then piss on your concern."

The only redeeming factor in any of this is that yes, this man has a very sick baby and is going through absolute hell (and really does need the money) and he acknowledges he was venting. As a vent, it's understandable. As an attempt to change minds, it fails miserably.

[Lordquinton]

89. so you claim to understand this privilege

But then demenstrate that you don't, wrappig the blame oN the non belivers. If someone does something and you ask hem not to and you keep doing it, then they have evey right to be upset. I don't care if you think that praying is meant as deep condolences or whatever, to some it's not.

If you get upset that someone in pai. Asks you not to do something then it shows you're praying for yourself not others.

Btw, 12 step is soaked in religion, so check that.

[beam me up scottie]

90. Why are you deliberately misrepresenting what he wrote?

"Fuck you and your well-wishing, if you can't give me money then piss on your concern."

THESE ARE HIS WORDS:

I’d like to open this letter by acknowledging and thanking those who have shared that they’re praying for my son, who was born prematurely and since then has resided in our local neonatal intensive care unit. I realize your intentions are good and that you believe your prayers are helping him grow stronger. By appealing to a deity that you believe exists and listens to your pleas, you feel you’re offering your support and contributing to my son’s cause in some way. Because I realize you believe you’re helping, I thank you for doing what you feel will help my son get healthy and strong.

Stop acting like he's the one being an asshole and look in the mirror.

What the hell is wrong with you people? This guy has gone out of his way to be as NON offensive as possible and you're still vilifying him.

So much for that liberal compassion I've heard so much about.



ETA this isn't an "article", it's a letter to his supporters, it wasn't meant to be fodder for a bunch of jerks who lack basic human compassion and just want a reason to whine about atheists.

[beam me up scottie]

72. What about the hateful bigots who smeared the father in this thread?

Instead of offering a little compassion or keeping their nasty comments to themselves they just had to demonize the father because he was honest about his feelings.

But you're scolding the people who called one of them out for it?

Give me a fucking break.

[Starboard Tack]

87. Eeww!

[AtheistCrusader]

28. S4p turned criticism into invective. That wasn't a paraphrase.

A paraphrase conveys the same meaning. That attempt was deliberate max negativity.

[phil89]

11. You're a very

dishonest person. He never said any of that.

[Rob H.]

15. Seriously?

It's obvious you didn't read the letter at all, and on the off chance you did read it, you didn't understand a single word he wrote.

Edit: missed a space.

[phil89]

55. I did read it.

maybe you didn't since you couldn't even paraphrase it honestly. Grow up.

[Rob H.]

56. Uh...

Last edited Fri May 29, 2015, 01:27 PM - Edit history (1)

My post shows up below yours, but I was responding to struggle4progress and calling him on the fact that he seemed to read something completely different than what was actually written. I agree with you that he was being dishonest.

Edit: and I wouldn't call what he did paraphrasing, either--it's more making things up out of whole cloth than anything else.

[cbayer]

58. Oopsie. It's ugly when you think it's pointed at you, isn't it…..

If you had recognized that it wasn't, you likely would have applauded this response.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. What a fascinating dialogue you just manufactured. Is there something you want to tell us?

Something that has been bothering you, perhaps?

[goldent]

19. Nice letter

He made his beliefs clear while at the same time being respectful and showing appreciation for the religious. Will wonders never cease?

[hrmjustin]

57. I wish them the best.

[cbayer]

59. Whatever you do, don't pray for them!!

[hrmjustin]

60. Well that doesn't bother me.

Irl i never had an atheist say don't pray for me. They just say don't waste your time.

On the internet some are very clear they don't want my prayers and i respect their request.

[cbayer]

61. When people say it to me, I hear "I care about you and I'm thinking of you".

I've not encountered anyone say it in a way that was a condemnation, but I understand that some people find it offensive in it's assumptions.

[hrmjustin]

62. Yeah most understand it is a courtesy.

Of course there are those eho are creppy wbout what they pray for.

[cbayer]

63. Yes, there are those that are creepy - like "I'll pray for your salvation".

I can understand why one might object to that.

[hrmjustin]

64. yes. But simple prayers are just a courtesy.

[truebrit71]

69. .... and to this couple, a complete waste of time...

... and therefore not courteous at all...

[hrmjustin]

70. That is how they feel and they shpuld be respected.

[truebrit71]

71. Exactly...

...

[beam me up scottie]

73. Thank you for showing some class, justin.

This man deserves compassion, not mockery.

[hrmjustin]

75. Thank you and agreed.

They need to be left alone.

[truebrit71]

76. Agreed.

[Rob H.]

79. Thanks, justin

[hrmjustin]

80. My pleasure.

[truebrit71]

74. How's the weather over there?

This is the time of year that you normally spend homeless in Italy, right?

I can think of a million and one things I'd rather do in Italy other than post snark on DU...

But each to their own I guess...ciao!

[cbayer]

78. I'm in Atlanta and it's been raining a lot.

You seem so interested in me and my life. It's rather charming, in a creepy kind of way.

[MADem]

81. I can't believe how much shitflinging this guy's rather windy but honest letter has engendered here.

He basically has said -- and this is a paraphrase, so let's not get all upset that I am "QUOTING" the guy now:

'Look, I am an atheist, and while I realize you think prayers help, I am not of that mind, and my son's care is expensive. If you want to help him, a material way to do it is to donate to his care, and if you do that, well, thank you.'

I don't think he was rude or obnoxious--a little verbose, but maybe that's how he deals with stress--a premature infant is an incredibly stressful event.

I hope the faithful (and the not-so-much) donate to his son's care in droves. The best way to demonstrate caring is to shut your mouth and act, I say! Stop talking, start doing!

[AtheistCrusader]

84. Thank fuck SOMEONE around here knows how to paraphrase.

[MADem]

85. I am into "Live and let live." And I like little kids--they're some of the nicest, most honest

people in the world.

I hope that little fart survives this tough start, and does well in life. His parents quite obviously do love him with all their hearts, that much is obvious, so he's got that going for him even if he was a bit early out of the gate.

Let's hope that people can put their concerns about-- really--in the big picture--insignificant gripes about, prayer, religion or atheism aside and put that little kid first! GOFUND him~! If you're an atheist or agnostic, GOFUND him! If you're religious, GOFUND him! You can buy a five dollah footlong, or you can throw five bucks in the pot for that kid. I think the latter is a better investment.

And if people need a deity to tell them to do a good thing for this kid and help his parents out, here's a bunch of Bible quotes I found on the internet to back that up: http://www.openbible.info/topics/charity

[AtheistCrusader]

86. +1, done and done.

They're going to need all the help they can get, even when they finally get that tyke home.

[gwheezie]

82. I do get sick of hearing about god

In relation to any catastrophe in my life but I I generally don't argue with people about it unless they become annoying and have poor boundaries.
This op has had a month of it. I can imagine he has days when he doesn't want to hear it.
Generally I find religious people mean well but some just can't drop it. Go pray in a closet if you must.