HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Religion & Spirituality » Religion (Group) » David Cameron says the UK...
Introducing Discussionist: A new forum by the creators of DU

Sat Dec 17, 2011, 01:08 AM

David Cameron says the UK is a Christian country (BBC)

David Cameron has said the UK is a Christian country "and we should not be afraid to say so".

In a speech in Oxford on the 400th anniversary of the King James Bible, the prime minister called for a revival of traditional Christian values to counter Britain's "moral collapse".

He said "live and let live" had too often become "do what you please".

The PM said it was wrong to suggest that standing up for Christianity was "somehow doing down other faiths".

Describing himself as a "committed" but only "vaguely practising" Christian, the PM admitted he was "full of doubts" about big theological issues.
***
more: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16224394




Interesting reading in the comments.

11 replies, 1191 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 11 replies Author Time Post
Reply David Cameron says the UK is a Christian country (BBC) (Original post)
eppur_se_muova Dec 2011 OP
laconicsax Dec 2011 #1
uriel1972 Dec 2011 #3
Dorian Gray Dec 2011 #8
MarkCharles Dec 2011 #9
Crunchy Frog Dec 2011 #2
iris27 Dec 2011 #4
limpyhobbler Dec 2011 #5
LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #6
mr blur Dec 2011 #7
muriel_volestrangler Dec 2011 #10
LeftishBrit Dec 2011 #11

Response to eppur_se_muova (Original post)

Sat Dec 17, 2011, 01:12 AM

1. England is a Christian country.

 

Lots of European countries are Christian countries. There's nothing wrong with that. And saying so shouldn't be controversial.

Even Richard Dawkins openly acknowledged that England is a Christian nation.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to laconicsax (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 17, 2011, 01:53 AM

3. And the Church of England

Is the official Church of well.. England. No separation of Church and State there.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to laconicsax (Reply #1)

Sat Dec 17, 2011, 01:35 PM

8. They have a national religion

so I agree. They are definitely a Christian country.

That doesn't mean that the numbers of non-Christians there aren't regularly increasing, and that most of their laws aren't
secularly based.

Having lived in the UK, I knew many more non-religious people there than here in the US.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Dorian Gray (Reply #8)

Sat Dec 17, 2011, 02:04 PM

9. That has been my experience, too. Especially among the young.

 

The young folks I taught there were very much the skeptics of anything dogmatic or religious. They even have more habitual disgust for Parliament than we do for our Congress.

Lots of younger people there don't go to any church, and lots more OLDER people ALSO don't go to any church, except when someone gets married or dies.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to eppur_se_muova (Original post)

Sat Dec 17, 2011, 01:46 AM

2. Traditional Christian values?

Like beheading your wife so you can marry your mistress? What a pantload.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to eppur_se_muova (Original post)

Sat Dec 17, 2011, 02:13 AM

4. Gosh, imagine an America where the head of the conservative party

described himself as "vaguely practising" and admitted to theological doubt. I think my head would explode from the shock.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to eppur_se_muova (Original post)

Sat Dec 17, 2011, 02:18 AM

5. cameron is a political hack. the uk is what is, everyone knows what it is.

Emphasising uk christianity is a cheap political stunt designed to score cheap easy political points with certain groups. This is straight out of the george w bush / rick perry playbook. Uh huh. Cameron's remarks will gain him some politically but sadly will also help enbolden right wing, anti-immigrant hate groups. The uk may be christian legally but in reality it is a multi-ethnic secular society and that is its greatest strength.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to eppur_se_muova (Original post)

Sat Dec 17, 2011, 03:56 AM

6. Technically, it is.

In practice it is a much more secular country than the USA.

And I doubt that Cameron is particularly religious; I doubt that he goes to church frequently, for example. I think this was a dog-whistle to two core groups of Tory voters: the anti-immigrant bigots, and the traditionalist, things-ain't-what-they-used-to-be brigade. With regard to the latter, there was never a time of Perfect Morality; people have always been complaining that things ain't what they used to be (and they never were!); and there was plenty of crime and immorality in the Good Old Days of Good Queen Victoria - just read Dickens, for example. But a number of people are full of the idea of there being a time when God was in His Heaven and the King/Queen on the Throne, people were Moral, and there's been a Breakdown in Society ever since we went all soft and secular. 20 years ago, such people tended to end up attributing all problems to the abolition of the death penalty; nowadays, they tend to attribute them all to our membership of the Europaean Union.

It's interesting, however, that these nostalgic Tory Christians never refer to the texts about how the rich finding it harder to get into heaven than a camel through a needle's eye, or the condemnation of those who reject immigrants ('I was a stranger and you took me not in...')

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to eppur_se_muova (Original post)

Sat Dec 17, 2011, 01:03 PM

7. And the Deputy PM is an atheist.

So what? Nobody really cares.

Cameron isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer but even he's smart enough to know that our "moral collapse" has nothing to do with a lack of belief in the supernatural.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to eppur_se_muova (Original post)

Sat Dec 17, 2011, 06:43 PM

10. Bible similar to Tory policy if you skip stuff on helping the poor and sick, says Cameron

Prime Minister David Cameron has revealed that he is committed to Christianity apart from all the bits about helping the poor and sick, and definitely excluding the part where Jesus throws the money-lenders out of the temple.

With Christians everywhere suffering a crisis of faith following Mr Cameron’s insistence that he is one them, members of the clergy face a difficult run up to Christmas trying to explain to their congregations how the last 18 months of a Tory led government is in any reflected in the teachings of the Bible.

In a speech in Oxford on the 400th anniversary of the King James Bible, Mr Cameron insisted that government policy was regularly guided by the words of the Bible.

“The Bible focuses quite heavily on forgiveness,” he said. “Surely no-one can deny how quick we’ve been to forgive the bankers,”

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2011/12/17/bible-similar-to-tory-policy-if-you-skip-stuff-on-helping-the-poor-and-sick-says-cameron/


Apart from the problems pointed at above, Cameron also can't come up with a coherent policy on dividing state schools by faith. He's all for it, and continues to want more faith-based schools, and yet decries 'state multiculturalism':

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/7073322/David-Cameron-calls-for-more-faith-schools.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12371994

'Committed but vaguely practicising' is typical of his self-contradictory stances in this area.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to eppur_se_muova (Original post)

Mon Dec 19, 2011, 11:16 AM

11. Having now read the whole speech...

it's clear that at least part of it is a subtle rebuke to the Archbishop of Canterbury for being too left-wing and anti-cuts, and an instruction to the Church of England to get back to being, as it was decades ago described, 'the Conservative Party at prayer':

'I certainly don't object to the Archbishop of Canterbury expressing his views on politics.

Religion has a moral basis and if he doesn't agree with something he's right to say so.

But just as it is legitimate for religious leaders to make political comments, he shouldn't be surprised when I respond.

Also it's legitimate for political leaders to say something about religious institutions as they see them affecting our society, not least in the vital areas of equality and tolerance.

I believe the Church of England has a unique opportunity to help shape the future of our communities.

But to do so it must keep on the agenda that speaks to the whole country.

The future of our country is at a pivotal moment.

The values we draw from the Bible go to the heart of what it means to belong in this country...

...and you, as the Church of England, can help ensure that it stays that way.'


The Gospel according to St David Cameron?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread