What Fundamentalists Are Missing About Religious Freedom Bills

[meow2u3]

I grew up in southern Indiana right where the Ohio River makes a curly seam against Kentucky. I was a Southern Baptist boy, at first by tradition and then by choice. That's what we Southern Hoosiers did in those days.

Those circumstances were the perfect yet unfortunate set up for a lot of heartache. As my teenage years progressed, I gradually discovered that I was the devil in disguise, so to speak, for everyone around me. I was a homosexual, the despised and mythical creature about whom the Sunday school teacher warned us. I'm being dramatic about it now, but back then the stakes were quite high.

Nothing seems to change in my home state. It seemed a bit of a miracle when the marriage ban was struck down, then perhaps a bit predictable when Indiana became the latest state to pass a religious freedom act. On Monday, the state became the latest to pass such legislation. Gov. Mike Pence has said he'll sign it.

I'm no longer a Christian, but I very much remember the mindset of the fundamentalist. Modern American fundamentalism is a faith of mean-ness -- of exclusion -- of turning your fears into God's will and your gossip into prayer requests. I remember it well.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-thornton/what-fundamentalists-are-missing-about-religious-freedom-bills_b_6940118.html?utm_hp_ref=religion&ir=Religion

Another thing fundamentalists are missing about Orwellian "religious freedom" bills is that liberal-minded businesses can throw those same laws back in their faces and use them against conservative Christians. All a liberal business needs to do is put up a sign that reads, "We have the legal right to refuse service to Christians" or put up a want ad with the message, "Conservative Christians need not apply" and you'll see RWNJs whining about being persecuted and discriminated against (personally, I'd like to see their own laws used against them).

[cbayer]

1. Really moving piece. Thanks for bringing it here.

It will fall on deaf ears, I am afraid, as those he is talking to have no interest in hearing from him.

I agree with you that the unintended consequences of this are going to be profound. Time after time, these theocrats push through a piece of legislation and are completely blinded to the fact that it won't just apply to them and their ilk.

Although they are not putting up signs like you describe, these signs are starting to show up:

[misterhighwasted]

2. K& R

[niyad]

3. k and r

[LiberalAndProud]

4. "Christians need not apply."

Which raises the question, does it now become legal in Indiana to ask about religious affiliation on job applications? A progressive businessperson who is anxious to have the Supreme Court take a stand on these discriminatory laws maybe should test the waters. Such a stand would come at huge personal cost, but I think it would guarantee the outcome in court.

[OregonBlue]

5. I was thinking the same thing. What about a restaurant owner who asked anyone who prays

before their meal to leave because it is against her personal beliefs. I think they opened a whole can of worms with this one.

[Panich52]

6. Nice 'throw it back in their face' idea. I posted on how lgbt are not the only 'devils' the fundies

might discriminate against (atheists, wiccans, pro-choicers...), but turning their 'religious freedom' against them just might get enough to realize the un-Christian, un-American nature of these travesties of legislation.

[LiberalAndProud]

7. Pharmacy licenses.

If it's legal to discriminate, theoretically the state could decline to license pharmacists who provide contraceptives to their customers. Given the bent of some state legislative bodies, I don't think that's an impossible scenario.

[cbayer]

8. Does this bill provide for that?

I don't think it covers state entities like licensing boards.

I think that would require a separate piece of legislation.

[LiberalAndProud]

9. Unless the federal government can show compelling interest, I think it does.

It would be pretty easy to stack state licensing boards, much the way we have seen the Supreme Court stacked in favor of curtailing reproductive choice.

[cbayer]

10. I think it's just about businesses but I could be wrong.

Licensing boards can definitely be stacked, but they still have to comply with the law. All hell would break loose from federal oversight agencies, medicare, JCAHCO, etc. if they tried to base licensing on religious beliefs.

Not that they wouldn't try, but I can't see how they would possible win.

[LiberalAndProud]

11. You may be right.

But if a pharmacist is free to decline to provide contraceptives to customers for religious considerations, I still think this legislation provides a pathway for such a thing to happen over time if it's not struck down. And if we haven't understood by now that the people behind this tripe are very very patient, I think we fail to understand our enemy.

[cbayer]

12. We are not vigilant and we do not form coalitions.

We tend to think good things will happen because we are good people, then go about trying to kill each other off because "you" don't see things the same way "I" do.

I wish it were just tripe. I wish it weren't so profound and we weren't so apathetic, and by "we", I mean democrats.

[LiberalAndProud]

13. Many people who care to notice don't trust our existing political apparatus,

not without cause. Their tentacles are prolific, far-reaching and seeded long ago -- from concentration of media to confiscation of resources. And truly, we of the fast-food era don't seem to have the long-term vision it will take to defeat the hydra.

Tripe -- as in animal entrails, not intended to minimize the threat.

[cbayer]

14. So, if people don't trust it, what are they going to do?

I have to trust it because I don't think there is a reasonable alternative. If this nation rises up, it won't come from the left, it will come from the right.

I agree that those of the fast-food era don't have the long-term vision. They also don't have the interest, will power or any seeming motivation to even getting off their asses.

I keep hoping that the next generation will become active. I was hopeful about OWS.

People can't even be bothered to assess and adjust their personal energy consumption.

[LiberalAndProud]

15. I think your scathing indictment is very unfair.

As if all of those in the OWS movement across the country weren't interested or motivated, so many of us across the country struggling to make some small change. Pepper sprayed, shouted down, marginalized and disempowered. So here, here's the Democratic Party who will fight your battles for you, but don't look too closely at where those campaign dollars come from or you may be disenchanted.

When I think about it, you're right. Lazy people too time-strapped and resource-poor to get off their lazy asses deserve what's coming to them.

[cbayer]

16. My scathing indictment? Seriously?

When I post a scathing indictment, you will know it.

You have a nice day.

[LiberalAndProud]

17. Read what you wrote again.

I may have misunderstood the tone, but I think my point stands.

[cbayer]

18. I think you completely misunderstood my tone.

:walkingoneggshells:

I don't think people are lazy. I think they are apathetic.

Global warming has no direct effect on them, so why should they care?

Most of what goes on politically doesn't effect them in a way they can see, so they don't even vote.

I am not victim blaming in any way, shape or form. OWS people cared, but few really joined in. I know people who were extremely active, but the numbers dwindled and the ones left felt abandoned.

I maintain that if there is an uprising, it will come from the right and that scares the bejeezus out of me.

My suggestion is to stop the freaking infighting and join forces to beat the republicans and particularly the religious right.

[LiberalAndProud]

19. I'll make a deal with you.

You work on the right and I'll work on the religious.

(I'm kidding!)

[cbayer]

20. I'm going to work against the religious right and with the religious left.

I know your are kidding….. at least to some extent.

[LiberalAndProud]

21. As I see the greater organized church moving, ideologically,

the rare breakaway denomination may be your only hope. I wish you well with it, though.

And about that, I'm not kidding.

[cbayer]

22. Disagree, it's not just the rare breakaway denomination at all, but

it's hard to get notice or make progress when some who should be your friends treat you like you are their enemy.

I've seen the power of an organized religious left aligned with an organized secular left. It's power can't be understated. The right would hate to see that happen.

[jeff47]

23. Not really that hard for the pharmacies in a town to collude.

So instead of implementing a contraception ban via licensing board, you just have all the nearby pharmacies refuse to fill the prescriptions.

Not practical in big cities, but quite do-able everywhere else.

[cbayer]

24. Yes, that could definitely happen.

They could also refuse to hire pharmacists who insisted on dispensing birth control under this law.

But I think the licensing issue itself is beyond their reach.