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rug

(82,333 posts)
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 03:16 PM Sep 2014

Is Atheist Awe A Religious Experience?



Falls at Letchworth State Park in New York.

by Adam Frank
Adam Frank is a contributor to the NPR blog 13.7: Cosmos & Culture. A professor at the University of Rochester, Frank is a theoretical/computational astrophysicist and currently heads a research group developing supercomputer code to study the formation and death of stars. Frank's research has also explored the evolution of newly born planets and the structure of clouds in the interstellar medium. Recently, he has begun work in the fields of astrobiology and network theory/data science. Frank also holds a joint appointment at the Laboratory for Laser Energetics, a Department of Energy fusion lab.
September 16, 201410:47 AM ET

"Where were you?" my beloved asked as I walked through the door caked in mud and sweat. "I was communing with my gods," I responded — and proceeded to tell her about the exquisite hike I'd had that morning in New York's Letchworth State Park (the Grand Canyon of the East).

Earlier in the day, looking down the rim of a canyon cut over thousands of years by the Genesee River, I felt a profound sense of awe that cut me to the quick. But in that sense of awe, was I communing with anything extending beyond just a particular state of my neurons? My joke about the gods aside, was there anything religious about the feeling I, an atheist, felt looking across that vast expanse of river, stone and still blue air?

During the last week we've been having a fascinating conversation here at 13.7 on exactly this topic of atheists and awe and science and religion.

Barbara King started us out using two books she'd recently finished to dispel the notion that atheists can't feel awe. She further argued that it's an experience that need have nothing to do with the "sacred" but can be a pure response to science's own unpacking of the world's richness. Then, Tania Lombrozo picked up the ball by looking at psychological research showing how the feeling of awe has two characteristics: an experience of vastness and the need for an accommodation with that experience. Both the religious and non-religious have this experience of vastness, she argued. The real difference between them arises with how the subsequent accommodation is accomplished.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2014/09/16/348949146/is-atheist-awe-a-religious-experience
17 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Is Atheist Awe A Religious Experience? (Original Post) rug Sep 2014 OP
No. Feral Child Sep 2014 #1
Here's a somewhat longer answer. rug Sep 2014 #2
No. Stop obsessively attaching phil89 Sep 2014 #3
Are you talking to me or the author? rug Sep 2014 #5
What did you think of the author's use of this word in regards to the awe experienced by cbayer Sep 2014 #13
Atheists have nothing against awe. What atheists oppose is the concept snagglepuss Sep 2014 #4
That's a fair distinction. rug Sep 2014 #6
I wonder if that's what Sam Harris means when he talks about spirituality. LiberalAndProud Sep 2014 #7
That's what I was thinking but he doesn't even mention his new book. rug Sep 2014 #8
No. AtheistCrusader Sep 2014 #9
Awe, I don't know. :) n/t Silent3 Sep 2014 #10
"Religious experience" edhopper Sep 2014 #11
That is exactly the author's point. cbayer Sep 2014 #14
Yes edhopper Sep 2014 #15
They have absolutely no basis for making that claim other cbayer Sep 2014 #16
I think it obviously isn't. edhopper Sep 2014 #17
Great article and full of lots of interesting ideas. cbayer Sep 2014 #12
 

rug

(82,333 posts)
2. Here's a somewhat longer answer.
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 03:39 PM
Sep 2014

From the author:

And that is where awe touches on the thinking of Marcelo and Alva about rationality, spirituality, values and meaning. What makes the elemental human experience of awe significant is it is, first and foremost, an experience of meaning. It saturates the world with meaning. Explanations for the origins of that meaning must always come later.

Thus, I come back to my sense of sacredness. It's easy in these discussions to split apart into our usual camps — the atheist vs. the religious. But rather than use this universal sense of awe of as point of contention, it could become a point of where the discussion gets really interesting. I've argued for some time that the word "sacred" is, historically, not rooted in any particular religion but refers to exactly that eruption of awe into our everyday lives.

It's about attention not attribution.

So what if we — atheists and religious folk alike — asked ourselves about both the similarities and differences? What if we made awe the pivot point around which a new kind of respectful discussion might begin? Of course some strident folks will not want to have this kind of dialogue. They'll want to remain behind their parapets. But for me, that only means they're no longer interested in the subtleties of their own positions.
 

phil89

(1,043 posts)
3. No. Stop obsessively attaching
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 03:47 PM
Sep 2014

religion to everything. I promise it's ok to not think in terms of religion.

 

rug

(82,333 posts)
5. Are you talking to me or the author?
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 03:54 PM
Sep 2014

I would be uncomfortable knowing you're obsessing about me.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
13. What did you think of the author's use of this word in regards to the awe experienced by
Wed Sep 17, 2014, 04:29 AM
Sep 2014

atheists?

snagglepuss

(12,704 posts)
4. Atheists have nothing against awe. What atheists oppose is the concept
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 03:49 PM
Sep 2014

of revealed truth rather than empirical study.

LiberalAndProud

(12,799 posts)
7. I wonder if that's what Sam Harris means when he talks about spirituality.
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 03:59 PM
Sep 2014

This photo makes me feel something profound, but it isn't attached to religion, or the supernatural. It is, though, part of my human experience.

AtheistCrusader

(33,982 posts)
9. No.
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 04:38 PM
Sep 2014

I feel Awe all the time. I felt some, coupled to some confusion and hostility, when I read the title. I do not confuse one emotion for another, and I do not have 'religious experiences', beyond showing up to a communion once, to see if they were eating people or something. (Symbolically, they were, actually. Imagine my surprise)

edhopper

(33,164 posts)
11. "Religious experience"
Tue Sep 16, 2014, 08:52 PM
Sep 2014

Is just something believers call an emotion common to humanity brought on by many different stimuli.
It's not unique to religion.

edhopper

(33,164 posts)
15. Yes
Wed Sep 17, 2014, 09:23 AM
Sep 2014

I have met a few religious folk (not here) who claim this experience is unique to a connection to God.
They use it to prove the truth of their beliefs.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
16. They have absolutely no basis for making that claim other
Wed Sep 17, 2014, 09:24 AM
Sep 2014

than their faith that it is so.

I don't believe it to be unique to religion at all.

cbayer

(146,218 posts)
12. Great article and full of lots of interesting ideas.
Wed Sep 17, 2014, 04:27 AM
Sep 2014

I like his idea that the experience of awe share common ground whether one goes down a spiritual or scientific road in response to it. In showing the commonality, he brings people together and shows respect for however one explains or experiences things.

Sound like a group of people it would be great to have dinner with.

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