Troll level: Expert: ‘Jesus is Muslim’ billboards drive Christians crazy

[ZombieHorde]

March 31, 2014 By Michael Stone

Controversial billboards in Ohio reading “Jesus is Muslim” are driving some Christians crazy, and drawing protests from local Christians who say Muslims are “hijacking” the name of Jesus.

Right Wing Watch reports a group of passionate Christians turned out in Columbus, Ohio, this weekend to rail against “the evil spirit of Islam” by declaring that America “is the Lord’s house,” and calling the billboards “slander” and “blasphemy.”

“Although we support the Islamic community’s right to free speech, as well as their right to post messages on billboards, we do not support the hijacking of the name of Jesus Christ in their attempt to lure uninformed Christians into their religion,” Coach Dave Daubenmire of Pass the Salt Ministries said in a statement last week.

Protestors claim that no other religion has the right “to come here and try to undermine this nation’s Christian foundation.” (Note: “the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.” Treaty of Tripoli, 1796).

More at this link: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressivesecularhumanist/2014/03/troll-level-expert-jesus-is-muslim-billboards-drive-christians-crazy/

[MADem]

1. Jesus is regarded a prophet and a "Person of the Book" in Islam.

He's just not Top Prophet, as far as they are concerned.

But really, the thing that would piss off fundies just as much as that billboard is if it said "Jesus is Jewish." Because, ya know, he was. It's amazing how many Christians don't know that, and don't realize that he wasn't blond haired or blue eyed.

[Brettongarcia]

20. Not unless he was a "Mamzer" as Jewish sources suggested; illegit son of Mary and a Roman Soldier

[MADem]

21. I was always taught that if your mother was Jewish, so are you.

And I understood that Mary most certainly was.

[lumpy]

36. My thought also. If Jesus is listening, I fell sorry for you, Buddy.

[penultimate]

2. While I find the thought of this amusing...

Mostly from a 'troll' type standpoint. I can't help but wonder if my feelings would be the same if it was a Christian group doing something with the intent to upset Muslims. For example, what was my reaction when people draw pictures of Muhammad knowing it would lead to outrage in some parts of the muslim community...

Thinking about it... I think they all need to grow thicker skin if they don't like people having the ability to have free speech.

[TygrBright]

3. Haveta wonder how the wadded-panties crowd...

...frantically clutching pearls and dramatically fainting at the suggestion Jesus had anything to DO with Islam, feel about the LDS claim to Christian status?

curiously,
Bright

[Niceguy1]

4. Jesus

As a person had nothing to do with islam when he was alive as it did not exiat back then.

[TygrBright]

6. As a person, he had nothing to do with any Christian churches, either.

He was dead before any of them got off the ground, too.

helpfully,
Bright

[Niceguy1]

7. so technically he's neither Christian

nor is he Muslim

[lumpy]

37. Jesus is supposed to be the Son of The Creator. God must be Jewish, I guess.

[AtheistCrusader]

14. And it's possible the biblical character of jesus didn't exist back then either.

[hrmjustin]

5. Not the best idea but not the worst.

Talking is a good thing and I wish Christians and Muslims would talk more.

[Act_of_Reparation]

11. Read the billboard. Very closely.

Ask A Muslim isn't interested in dialogue. They are proselytizing.

[cbayer]

12. They may be proselytizing, but I think they also sincerely want to open up dialogue.

From their website:

WHAT DO WE DO?

We invite people to have an open discourse with us. All we ask you to do, is ask us whatever questions you have about Islam, and we'll gladly and honestly answer them. We believe that clearing up the many misconceptions about Islam will make this world a better place. A place with less violence and hatred, filled with mutual respect and understanding.

I don't think they really thought this billboard through, though, and another article said it was taken down the next day because it was much more provocative than they had thought it would be.

[Act_of_Reparation]

46. Flowery mission statement is flowery.

And here is the release accompanying the Columbus billboard:

JESUS WAS MUSLIM

MUSLIMS ARE CHRISTIANS

For starters, Muslims are Christians – if “Christian” means someone following the teachings of Christ, so by learning about Islam you are not disobeying Jesus.

For example the Quran forbids Swine, (Holy Quran 2:173) and so too does the bible (Deuteronomy 14:8). This is also the case with interest whereby it is forbidden in the Quran 3:130 and also in Deutronomy 19:20. This is the case of many others aswell. So why is it that Muslims are the only one’s forbidding swine and forbidding Interest – as Jesus taught?

Muslims are following the teachings of Jesus, while most Christians have began to follow the Church – this is why the Quran needed to be revealed. (Holy Quran 9:31)

DOES SON OF GOD MEAN BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD?

For starters the word begotten has officially been removed from the Revised Standard Version of the Bible.

John (5 ) For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

John (3:16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

(These verses do not exist anymore in the RSV).

In the bible it also states that God has many sons (Luke 3:38), and in my opinion there is nothing wrong with this. As long as you are referring to sons as in followers of God. What makes Jesus more of a miracle than Adam? (who had no father nor mother). To God it is simple “be and it is” (Holy Quran 2:117).

For example, Jesus never said I am God worship me, rather he would say statements such as “OUR father who art in heaven”, and not MY father. I have also posted the link to one of the first Bible’s which states that Jesus is the servant of God.

This verse is also found in the Quran.

“I am a servant of Allah. He will reveal the Book to me and make me a prophet. He blessed me wherever I am. In the rules revealed to me there will be a special attention given to prayers and charity. Allah predestined that I will be kind to my mother and not a tyrant with a bad ending. Peace was on me the day I was born, peace will be on me on the day I will die, and on the day I am raised alive again!”

Holy Qur’an, Chapter 19 Maryam, verse 30-33

DID JESUS EVER SPEAK OF MUHAMMAD?

Jesus has said that “Every spirit (meaning every prophet) that confesses that Jesus Christ is come in flesh is of God (John 4:2). Muhammad did indeed confess Jesus Christ as a messenger of God.

Muhammad is also mentioned by name in (Song of Solomon 5:16). In the original Hebrew transcript it clearly states the word “Muhammad” when Solomon is talking about His “friend” and “how sweet his words are”.

Also in the prophecy of Jesus he states that a spirit is to come after him and reside as “The comforter”.

Many Christians claim that due to the presence of the word spirit, we must conclude that it is reffering to the Holy Spirit. However in Revelation 1:4, Seven spirits are mentioned. As there is only one “Holy spirit” (according to Christian belief), we cannot conclude on this statement so easily.

Also the comforter is described with 8 masculine pronouns (“He”), nowhere else in the bible is the Holy Spirit referred to in such terminology as the “Holy Spirit” is neither male nor female and is regarded as “it”. Therefore the assumption that it is referring to a man, would be quite possible.

Let’s take a further look.

When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me” John 15;26

Muhammad testified that Jesus was of God.

“But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Comforter will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you. When he comes he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment” John 16; 7,8
Muhammad came after Jesus and did indeed convict righteousness and judgement, while the Holy Spirit was present the entire time even during the birth of Jesus and his ministry. (Elizabeth in Luke 1:41 and Zechariah in Luke 1:67). If Christians still want to argue that it is indeed the Holy Spirit, then they must admit their bible has been corrupted as there is a clear inconsistency.

But when he, the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own, he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come. He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it know to you. All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you. John 16:13-15
Muhammad did not speak of his own (Holy Quran 69:41-46). He also spoke of what he heard from Angel Gabriel, and he told us of what is yet to come. This verse is also clearly referring to a spirit that can speak, while the Holy Spirit is incapable of speech as it only groans and utters words which are in-comprehensive (Romans 8: 25-30). As mentioned before he did enforce what Jesus had enforced aswell, and did spread the same message as Jesus.

The comforter was also to reside with us forever. This is in tune with the Quran that Muhammad is the final messenger, the Quran is the final testament, and the message will remain forever.

His teachings are in tune with the Quran, the Quran IS the final testament. So what is stopping you from accepting Muhammad, when Jesus told you to. I hope I have shed light on this.

And (remember) when Allâh will say (on the Day of Resurrection): “O ‘?s? (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: ‘Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allâh?’ ” He will say: “Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours, truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden (and unseen). “Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allâh) did command me to say: ‘Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord.’ And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them, and You are a Witness to all things. – Holy Qur’an 5:116-117
Please remember Islam = following Jesus. Muhammad confirmed Jesus.

"What is stopping you from accepting Mohammed when Jesus told you to."

This doesn't sound like dialogue. This sounds like a sales pitch. And the rest of the site isn't much better. Dialogue is a two-way street, yet I only see one person (or group of people, rather) talking.


... and Jesus was Muslim because pork. Can't argue with that.

[trotsky]

50. The double standard is alive and well.

Muslims put up a billboard to proselytize? Eh, we'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

Atheists put up a billboard to let other atheists know they aren't alone? ZOMGWTFBBQ those horrible in-your-face atheists, they're as bad as the worst religious fundies!!!!!1!!eleven!

[Act_of_Reparation]

55. It most certainly is.

I would say I am surprised that those guilty are unaware of what they're saying... but I'm not... so I won't.

[hrmjustin]

18. Yes your right it is.

As I said not the best idea, but not the wmorst either.

[Dorian Gray]

23. I sincerely

don't understand how it was provocative.

[hrmjustin]

24. To a Christian it could seem like they are trying to steal Jesus from Christians.

It wouldd seem like heresy.

I don't agree but I don't think it was a good idea. Many Christians don't know that Muslims consider Jesus a prophet.

[Dorian Gray]

25. It's basic knowledge. As I said

I don't think this should have been provocative, and that people were provoked... well, it speaks about their ignorance of Islam in general. I saw the billboard as an attempt to say... "See! We're not so different!"

[hrmjustin]

27. I see the board as hey gives us a try and that is fine.

But some might take offense.

[stopbush]

32. So, non-Xian religions must temper expressing their beliefs because most Xians are ignoramuses

when it comes to other religions? Wait, they're ignoramuses when it comes to Xianity as well.

Not a good idea? To whom? The ignoramuses?

[hrmjustin]

33. I didn't say they shouldn't put up the sign.

I said I didn't think it was the best or worst idea.

[cbayer]

34. I agree that the people object to this are ignorant of the facts and are missing the whole point.

But you know what else is ignorant? Generalizing that to huge swaths of people, which one does when they use the term "most".

[Leontius]

38. What exactly are the facts that the people who object are ignorant of?

[cbayer]

39. That Jesus is a prophet important to Muslims.

[Leontius]

42. Except that he is not that important he's just another man, an imperfect prophet.

[cbayer]

43. Still a prophet. That was my only point.

[okasha]

47. Yes, he is that important.

Islam recognizes all the prophets of the OT and the NT, but only three Messengers:: Musa (Moses), Isa ibn Maryam (Jesus son of Mary) and Muhammad himself.

Mary gets a whole Sura of the Quran to herself, a lot more ink than she gets in the Bible.

[stopbush]

40. I calls 'em as I sees 'em...mostly.

[cbayer]

41. That is quite true.

You do call them as you see them.

[cbayer]

44. Hey, stopbush. One more thing. Do you think that guy in your avatar

is an ignoramus?

[stopbush]

49. I don't follow your thinking. Please 'splain, Lucy.

[trotsky]

54. She thinks you are saying that every religious person is an ignoramus.

And therefore that you think President Obama is an ignoramus.

You didn't say that, but she thinks she's "gotcha" in order to teach you a lesson about religious tolerance.

[ZombieHorde]

57. Don't we all?

The prover proves, to use an old saying.

[cbayer]

26. One recent article here talked about how it's important to talk to

people without threatening their foundational beliefs.

It was specifically about how to talk to creationists about science and it had some really good points.

In this case, I can see how this might be perceived as very threatening, whether that was the intent or not.

It could be read to say, "He's one of us and not one of you".

[Dorian Gray]

28. I guess...

I know they took it down. But that it created such a furor is more indicative of the ignorance of those outraged than that the billboard was meant to take ownership of Jesus. (In my opinion.)

[cbayer]

29. I don't disagree with you.

I believe what they say about their intent - similar to what you said above - "Hey, we are not that different than you".

And I also agree that some people are looking for reasons to get outraged and the principal outragee here appears to be one of those people.

[msongs]

8. how bout some "Mohammed is a Jew" billboards? Or Buddha is a Catholic? nt

[edhopper]

9. Unfortunately

any "Mohammed is..." billboards would be viewed as blasphemy by a part of the Muslim community and result in riots and death threats.

I find it amusing how one religion uses a figure from another to convince them to that their bullshit is truer than the other bullshit.

[cbayer]

13. Except that Islam doesn't "use" a figure form another religion,

the religions share him as an important figure, just place him in different categories.

So maybe that makes their "bullshit" even truer.

[ZombieHorde]

30. That's a good point. nt

[edhopper]

45. Muslim's think

Jesus is the Son of God"

Anyway, I was talking generally, like Jews for Jesus.

[AtheistCrusader]

16. About as problematic as 'Snoopy is a 7th Day Adventist'.

[Act_of_Reparation]

10. Evangelicals don't like it when people proselytize to them?

I do appreciate me some good irony.

[AtheistCrusader]

17. They get visibly upset when they come knock on my door

and I just point to the no soliciting sign.

"But we aren't trying to sell anything!"

Like hell you aren't.

[truebluegreen]

31. Gonna haveta git me one of those.

[cbayer]

35. Beware of dog works even better.

People don't even knock on the door when you have one of those.

[okasha]

48. So does visibly looking out from between the curtains,

then not answering the door.

Works well for me.

[muriel_volestrangler]

15. Let's be realistic: the nutjobs love an opportunity like this, to fundraise

"Coach Dave Daubenmire of Pass the Salt Ministries" needs publicity to persuade the gullible to send him money. Previous appearances on DU:

A "Christian" extremist group has decided to take their anti-gay message on the road and try to shake some sense into renegade churches that dare to be gay-affirming.
Three men who sought permits to burn ceremonial items in public, including the rainbow-colored flag of the gay rights movement
Lakewood school board won’t hire Dave Daubenmire as football coach

You know that Daubenmire will be richer as a result of this billboard. He needs opponents that he can wave in front of the poor schmucks who listen to his ranting.

This, however, is the kind of publicity he could do without:
The son of conservative religious activist Dave Daubenmire has been charged with downloading child pornography

[cbayer]

19. Wow. I thought he was just some local schmuck

and didn't realize he had this kind of history.

And his son nailed by a computer technician!

[Dorian Gray]

22. What I think here?

It's silly for people to get upset about this. Jesus is a Muslim prophet (Isa). Christians who are pissed about this SHOULD take it as a lesson in the beliefs of other faiths.

Or they could just be OUTRAGED! Because outrage is fun.

Whoooo! How dare they! (See... so much fun!)

[Deep13]

51. But, some Muslims have faith that it is true.

Isn't that irrefutable proof of the veracity of their claim?

[randr]

52. One would think that this would be a reason for the two sides to come together

in some discussion of unity. Do they really believe in One God or not?

[Deep13]

53. RE: Treaty of Tripoli...

Don't confuse government with nation and don't confuse legally true with true. The fact is the revivalist movement called the Second Great Awakening had a lot to do with founding the USA independent from Britain. That's not a pro-religion argument, just a historical fact.

[Act_of_Reparation]

56. If my understanding is correct...

...the Second Great Awakening began in the 1790s, and did not peak until the 1820s or so. The Revolution was over in 1783, but, more importantly, the groundwork for an independent American government was laid in 1776 with the adoption of the Articles of Confederation.

While the Second Great Awakening was extremely important in forming current religio-political attitudes, it appears (to me, at least) to be a reaction to the largely deist attitudes of the most prominent and influential founders.

[Deep13]

58. Again, the Federal state was established in 1788...

...the idea of the America nation is pretty much a work in progress. Most of the ideas that most Americans think are synonymous with being Americans, democracy being the big one, did not become part of the national narrative until the 19th c. I suppose I ought to have mentioned the First G.A. as well.