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Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:19 PM

Just to play devil's advocate about baseball HoF...

We all know Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, McGwire, and so on didn't make it and won't for quite some time in all liklihood, but here are facts. Bonds won 4 MVP's, Clemens won 7 Cy Young awards, Sammy won the MVP once, beating out McGwire. These awards are voted on baseball writers, many of whom have Hall of Fame votes. And these self serving "guardians of the game" or whatever shit they try to call themselves are keeping the above named players out of the Hall because they (allegedly) cheated. And they are keeping out Piazza, Biggio, Bagwell and others as well because they may have cheated.
Sounds like a witch hunt to me. Where does it stop? Did Frank Thomas do 'roids? How about Jim Thome? Probably not, but the whispers will be there and it may prevent guys like that from getting in as well. Btw, Lee Smith was far and away a better closer than Gossage, so why isn't he in? Could it be some New York bias? And Jack Morris was a better pitcher than Schilling, so he should get in before Schilling. But he may not.

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Reply Just to play devil's advocate about baseball HoF... (Original post)
Bluzmann57 Jan 2013 OP
n2doc Jan 2013 #1
madinmaryland Jan 2013 #3
n2doc Jan 2013 #4
madinmaryland Jan 2013 #2
n2doc Jan 2013 #5
madinmaryland Jan 2013 #6
n2doc Jan 2013 #7
bluedigger Jan 2013 #8
Renew Deal Jan 2013 #9

Response to Bluzmann57 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:33 PM

1. That point was being made on the radio today

These same voters cheered Bonds on to 4 consecutive MVP's at the same time that he was visibly growing and dramatically increasing his HR numbers. Everybody joked about the roids. Yet they didn't care.

And the hall is full of cheaters. Does the fact that some were caught using corked bats bother these voters? How about spitballs? How about being despicable human beings (Ty Cobb was at least the equal of Bonds in being scumball, and more violent).


Bunch of friction hypocrites. The worst are the former players who go on in such sanctimonious tones about how cheaters have to be kept out (I'm talking to you, Shilling, and you Dale Murphy). You guys were dead silent when you played against these cheaters. I would be willing to bet that if everything were known about every player, most would have done something that could be considered 'cheating' in their careers.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #1)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:45 PM

3. If you are going to whine about cheaters, why is Pete Rose not in the HoF??

He never cheated as a player, and his gambling was only as a manager which he failed at miserably.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #3)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:50 PM

4. I think he should be in. But he agreed to the ban.

Personally, I think the HOF should include all of the best players from each time, but be very clear and unstinting on their good and bad points. Have Bonds' plaque with a set of his helmets from the start and end of his career, and his shoes, and talk about how players juiced. And how juicing didn't help everyone. It isn't like all teams had 4o Hr hitting second basemen and shortstops.

Baseball Inc doesn't ignore or put an asterisk next to Bonds', or Clemons', records. Why should some self-selected writers "some of whom haven't written about the game in decades) be the sole arbiters of who is a "Hall of Famer"?

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Response to Bluzmann57 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:43 PM

2. I'll take Maddox and Glavine over the Roiders. nt

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #2)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 08:55 PM

5. And how sure are you that they didn't cheat?

Did you follow them around throughout their careers?

I do agree they belong. On their Merits alone. I don't know, nor do I care to know, what they may or may not have done roid wise. or HGH or any number of other treatments.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #5)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:04 PM

6. For one thing, Glavine and Maddox's head sizes never changed in their life. Look at them at the

beginning of their career compared to Bonds or Maddox.

Neither of them had an odd spike late in their career like Bonds, Sosa, or Clemons did.

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Response to madinmaryland (Reply #6)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:13 PM

7. Did Andy Pettite?

We know he cheated. And he didn't have a career spike, just a long successful one. Kind of like the 2 pitchers you mention. Neither of whom would be considered for the HOF if their careers had ended 5 years earlier than they did.

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Response to Bluzmann57 (Original post)

Wed Jan 9, 2013, 09:46 PM

8. I thought Schilling had an interesting perspective on it.

“If there was ever a ballot and a year to make a statement about what we didn’t do as players — which is we didn’t actively push to get the game clean — this is it,” Schilling said on ESPN.

“Perception in our world is absolutely reality. Everybody is linked to it. You either are a suspected user or you’re somebody who didn’t actively do anything to stop it. You’re one or the other if you were a player in this generation.

“Unfortunately I fall into the category of one of the players that didn’t do anything to stop it. As a player rep and a member of the association, we had the ability to do it and we looked the other way, just like the media did, just like the ownership did, just like the fans did. And now this is part of the price that we’re paying.”

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2013/01/bbwaa_pitches_a.html

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Response to Bluzmann57 (Original post)

Thu Jan 10, 2013, 11:35 AM

9. Ken Griffey Jr.

If they keep him out, something is wrong.

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