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Wed Nov 28, 2012, 10:39 AM

Bonds, Clemens, Sosa set for MLB Hall of Fame ballot

Associated Press / 11-28-12

NEW YORK -- For several years, baseball fans have argued whether Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens and Sammy Sosa belong in the Hall of Fame.

Starting on Wednesday, the voters who will actually decide that debate can get to work. The 2013 ballot will be announced at noon ET.

Bonds, Clemens and Sosa are set to show up on the Hall ballot for the first time, with all sides eager to find out whether drug allegations will block the former stars from reaching the shrine.

Craig Biggio, Mike Piazza and Curt Schilling are certain to be among the other first-time eligibles. Jack Morris, Jeff Bagwell and Tim Raines are the top holdover candidates.

MORE: http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8684414/barry-bonds-roger-clemens-sammy-sosa-set-appear-hall-ballot

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Reply Bonds, Clemens, Sosa set for MLB Hall of Fame ballot (Original post)
Auggie Nov 2012 OP
Scuba Nov 2012 #1
joeybee12 Nov 2012 #4
n2doc Nov 2012 #2
trumad Nov 2012 #5
n2doc Nov 2012 #6
trumad Nov 2012 #7
JonLP24 Nov 2012 #9
Upton Nov 2012 #10
JonLP24 Nov 2012 #11
Jack Rabbit Nov 2012 #12
madinmaryland Nov 2012 #16
madinmaryland Nov 2012 #15
trumad Nov 2012 #17
Angleae Nov 2012 #14
bluedigger Nov 2012 #3
madinmaryland Nov 2012 #8
TZ Nov 2012 #13
trumad Nov 2012 #18
ProfessorGAC Nov 2012 #23
El Supremo Nov 2012 #19
El Supremo Nov 2012 #20
TZ Nov 2012 #22
MrSlayer Nov 2012 #21
Indianademocrat91 Nov 2012 #24
MrSlayer Nov 2012 #25
Indianademocrat91 Nov 2012 #26

Response to Auggie (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 10:46 AM

1. Gives new meaning to "three strikes and you're out".

I'd vote for Jack Morris, and Mike Piazza, maybe

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Response to Scuba (Reply #1)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 12:24 PM

4. Well, the Bonds and Clemens might as well not be on the ballot...

so given the rest of the group...God help me...I'd vote for Schilling.

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Response to Auggie (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 10:49 AM

2. Frankly, Bonds and Clemens are first ballot HoF

I'm really get tired of the holier-than-thou attitude of people. Can they say with absolute certainty that people already in the HoF didn't use performance enhancing drugs? We know 'greenies' and other amphetamines, coke, acid, all sorts of illegal drugs were in use by various stars. Make their entrance a learning point- come clean about how steroid use was encouraged by the baseball establishment in the late 80's through 2003. Make the Maguire-Sosa home run race a central point to this, and show Bond's changes in body size. Lay it all out. Talk about the negative health issues. Talk about the trade off, would you take a drug that could shorten your life if it helped you become a star? But don't try telling me that the HoF needs to keep them out to 'stay clean'.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:10 PM

5. holier-than-thou?

Really--- so that meteoric jump in stats is because they lifted a few extra weights?

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Response to trumad (Reply #5)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:33 PM

6. Was Ruth juicing?

Meteoric? Yes, records were set. But really, we aren't talking quantum leaps here. Hammering Hank wasn't passed by Bonds until his last year, and Arod probably won't even get there. Everyone who has come clean on the subject has said that the roods got you a bit more edge, a bit more power, but could not turn a class A player into a star.

What I am referring to is the attitude that steroids are the only performance enhancing drug ever used by baseball players. And I say, bullcrap, people have been looking for an edge any way they can. Why should we look the other way with coke users and spitball throwers, and come down mightily on roid users? Especially when MLB wanted the home run explosion, wanted the excitement caused by home run races and lots of strikeouts.

Can you honestly say that Chipper Jones or any other potential HoF'er was clean the whole era? Only they know for sure.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #6)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 02:41 PM

7. quantum leaps

Average homers for these guys 40--- then to 70?

Are you serious?

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Response to trumad (Reply #7)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 05:09 PM

9. Ruth going from 41, 46, 25, 47 to 60 was a bigger leap

39, 52, 58, then 70. One player in the late 90's had a far bigger leap than all of them but he didn't hit near 70. He had over 50 when he averaged about 25, I can't think of his name at the moment but don't recall him being a known steroid guy.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 05:12 PM

10. Brady Anderson?

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Response to Upton (Reply #10)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 05:13 PM

11. I believe that's the one

I remember him being an Oriole guy.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 05:20 PM

12. Must've been that bootleg booze that the Babe was drinking

!!

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Response to Jack Rabbit (Reply #12)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 08:11 PM

16. Imagine if he could have been a designated hitter for a few more years!!



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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 08:10 PM

15. Jon, if I remember correctly, about the time Ruth was traded from the Red Sox to the Yankees was

the end of the dead ball era. I think that had much more to do with his change in stats than any drug.

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Response to JonLP24 (Reply #9)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 09:07 PM

17. It was Brady fucking Anderson who admitted using roids.

So Ruth over the years climbed to 60 and in a matter of 2 years Bonds went from 34 to 73.

Put away the dope.

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Response to n2doc (Reply #2)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 07:40 PM

14. What did they do that McGwire didn't?

McGwire is still waiting for induction and will be on his 7th ballot.

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Response to Auggie (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 10:50 AM

3. Interesting commentary by Peter Abraham this morning on voting and PEDS.

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Response to Auggie (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 03:34 PM

8. Do they allow convicted felons into the Hall??


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Response to Auggie (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 05:34 PM

13. Nobody should even consider Sosa

Besides likely juicing we know he corked his bat. He's a huge fraud. I despise Bonds and Clemmens and I hope they don't get in but there is a statistical argument to be made for both.

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Response to TZ (Reply #13)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 09:09 PM

18. Myth Busters proved a corked bat hurts rather than helps.

Not that I'm defending Sosa.

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Response to trumad (Reply #18)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 11:43 AM

23. Yep. All In The Head

The change in mass cancels out the change in velocity. Then as the bat compresses to the soft core, the ball doesn't which means slightly less momentum transfer.

I saw that episode too!
GAC

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Response to Auggie (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 09:25 PM

19. Here are the candidates:

Candidate MLB seasons Yrs on BBWAA ballot

Sandy Alomar Jr. 1988-2007 1st
Jeff Bagwell 1991-2005 3rd
Craig Biggio 1988-2007 1st
Barry Bonds 1986-2007 1st
Jeff Cirillo 1994-2007 1st
Royce Clayton 1991-2007 1st
Roger Clemens 1984-2007 1st
Jeff Conine 1990, 1992-2007 1st
Steve Finley 1989-2007 1st
Julio Franco 1982-94, 1996-97, 1999, 2001-07 1st
Shawn Green 1993-2007 1st
Roberto Hernandez 1991-2007 1st
Ryan Klesko 1992-2007 1st
Kenny Lofton 1991-2007 1st
Edgar Martinez 1987-2004 4th
Don Mattingly 1982-95 13th
Fred McGriff 1986-2004 4th
Mark McGwire 1986-2001 7th
Jose Mesa 1987, 1990-2007 1st
Jack Morris 1977-94 14th
Dale Murphy 1976-93 15th
Rafael Palmeiro 1986-2005 3rd
Mike Piazza 1992-2007 1st
Tim Raines 1979-2002 6th
Reggie Sanders 1991-2007 1st
Curt Schilling 1988-2007 1st
Aaron Sele 1993-2007 1st
Lee Smith 1980-97 11th
Sammy Sosa 1988-2005, 2007 1st
Mike Stanton 1989-2007 1st
Alan Trammell 1977-96 12th
Larry Walker 1989-2005 3rd
Todd Walker 1996-2007 1st
David Wells 1987-2007 1st
Rondell White 1996-2007 1st
Bernie Williams 1991-2006 2nd
Woody Williams 1993-2007 1st


Who is a shoe-in? I think Piazza is. I wish Tim Raines and Julio Franco were.

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Response to El Supremo (Reply #19)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 09:50 PM

20. The only Rockies (never had one) candidates are:

Dale Murphy (1 year)
and Larry Walker (10 years)

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Response to El Supremo (Reply #19)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 07:08 AM

22. I would like to see Sandy Alomar get in

Always enjoyed watching him play

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Response to Auggie (Original post)

Wed Nov 28, 2012, 10:59 PM

21. I've always hated Bonds but he deserves to go in.

 

He was going into the Hall whether he juiced or not. Same with Rocket.

Sosa, no.

Piazza and Black Jack should go in too.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #21)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 01:05 PM

24. Why Bonds and not Sosa?

Both cheated..Only reason because Bonds broke the record? And I don't believe he was going into the hall without steroids. He began using in Pittsburgh so all his stats are tainted. Never won a World Series.



enough said

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Response to Indianademocrat91 (Reply #24)

Thu Nov 29, 2012, 04:38 PM

25. Because Sosa was a crap player without juice.

 

Bonds was a five tool, can't miss player before he was using. I really hate the guy but it is what it is.

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Response to MrSlayer (Reply #25)

Fri Nov 30, 2012, 10:12 AM

26. It is illogical to say that though

You dont know for sure the exact time Bonds started juicing. I'd say he started juicing in college maybe not but it's most likely the place especially given that facts that you can do whatever you want and get away with it. You can see him getting bigger every year in Pittsburgh. Sure he wasn't like Hulk back then, but there is no doubt that he was juicing. He saw how well McGwire and Canseco were doing and figured out how they were doing it and did it himself. Maybe I'm wrong, but I can never give a pass on a cheater and liar like he is and continues to be.

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