Why Bernie Sanders’ problems with black voters go much deeper than him just blaming the media

[MrScorpio]

By Max Ehrenfreund September 14

Bernie Sanders is still having some trouble reaching African Americans, judging from his reception at the historically black Benedict College in Columbia, S.C. over the weekend.

The State's Jamie Self called the crowd "subdued." The Post and Courier's Cynthia Roldan observed that even though several hundred people showed up to hear him speak, the audience was small for a fiery candidate who has been drawing the largest crowds in the campaign so far. Charles M. Blow, a columnist for The New York Times, reported that many attendees were white.

According to Gallup, just 23 percent of black voters view Sanders favorably. Hillary Clinton's figure is 80 percent. That's mainly because very few have even heard of Sanders -- only a third say they were familiar with him, while 92 percent said they were familiar with Clinton.

Blow asked Sanders about his campaign to win over black voters in an interview. Sanders said (as he's said before) that the media is to blame. He argued that black voters would listen if reporters would only cover the substance of the senator's speeches on the campaign trail. He's said again and again that African Americans are at a disadvantage in the U.S. economy.

"I have talked in 20 different speeches that 51 percent of young African-American kids are unemployed and underemployed," he argued, citing research by the liberal Economic Policy Institute. "I don't know that it's made the newspapers yet."

In fact, as Blow notes, media organizations including The Washington Post have covered Sanders's critique. But the reality is that, at least in the eyes of some African American activists, he just isn't saying what those voters want to hear.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonkblog/wp/2015/09/14/why-bernie-sanders-problems-with-black-voters-go-much-deeper-than-him-just-blaming-the-media/

[arcane1]

1. "That's mainly because very few have even heard of Sanders"

"That's mainly because very few have even heard of Sanders -- only a third say they were familiar with him, while 92 percent said they were familiar with Clinton. "

[MrScorpio]

2. I'm sure that quite a few more have heard of him in the last two months since NetRoots and Seattle

[arcane1]

3. And that trend will continue

[MrScorpio]

5. He does have a long way to go at this stage though

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/08/12/bernie-sanders-big-challenge-explained-in-1-chart/

We can look at this another way. Below, we've plotted favorability versus unfavorability, with points scaled to how familiar people are with each candidate.



Notice that, generally, as Republicans get better-known, they are less popular. Generally, as Democrats get better known, they are more popular -- though Clinton just sort of breaks the scale.

The question is: As Sanders becomes better known, how does his dot move? Does it go straight up, mirroring Clinton's numbers? Or does it drift a bit to the right, instead, seeing increased favorability but also increased unfavorability? (If that 70 percent overall favorability figure is predictive, Sanders would drift over to 30 percent unfavorability.)

Notice Ben Carson's circle. He's doing better than most other Republican candidates with black voters. He seems to be likely to buck the trend of Republicans growing less popular as they're better known.

But it's hard to say where Carson or Sanders will go. There's a lot of time and a lot of campaign that will need to unspool before we get a good sense of how black voters are reacting to the candidates. Sanders is doing everything he can to drag his circle up and to the left. He has to.

[arcane1]

6. Agreed n/t

[MrScorpio]

7. But, unfortunately, there's a little trouble on the horizon…

Sanders May Lead the Polls in Iowa and NH, but It’s Black Voters Who Really Count

To get a better sense of how Sanders is really doing, look at the poll numbers in South Carolina, where there is a large African-American voting population and he’s trailing Hillary Clinton.


BY: THEODORE R. JOHNSON III
Posted: Sept. 15 2015 3:00 AM

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders is catching fire. But the Democratic presidential nominee’s long shot bid for the White House will hinge on his ability to attract African-American voters. Recent polls in Iowa and New Hampshire, the first two primary states, show him beating Hillary Clinton by 10 points and 22 points, respectively. Those states, however, have extremely small black populations.

To get a better sense of Sanders’ current standing with black voters, consider South Carolina. In this state, where the majority of the primary voters are African Americans, Clinton is ahead by 23 points and Sanders gets a chilly reception.

The reason Clinton maintains such a large lead there? A new YouGov/CBS poll shows Sanders leading Clinton in South Carolina among white voters, but Clinton having a nearly 50-point advantage among black voters. And you don’t win the South Carolina primary, the Democratic nomination or the White House unless you can attract black voters.

Clinton’s lead among black voters has little to do with her policy positions and everything to do with familiarity. Black voters have been exposed to Clinton through her time as first lady, U.S. senator and secretary of state, and, especially, with her campaign against Barack Obama for the 2008 presidential nomination. She is well-known and well-liked—her national favorability rating (pdf) among African Americans is 80 percent.

Meanwhile, most black voters aren’t familiar with Sanders, and nearly half of those who do know of him aren’t sure how to feel about him. Taken together, this means that most black voters don’t know enough about Sanders to compare his policy platform with Clinton’s. So they do what most voters do: They stick with the candidate they know—Hillary Clinton.

http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2015/09/sanders_may_lead_the_polls_in_iowa_and_nh_but_it_s_black_voters_who_really.html

[arcane1]

8. Exactly. And that's why we volunteer: to help get that word out.

[MrScorpio]

11. Apparently, the problems go deeper than just volunteering…

As in he's having quite a bit of difficulty connecting with a lot of black voters. From his initial tone-deafness on race matters:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/sep/13/bernie-sanders-southern-black-voters-next-hurdle

Howard – a traditionally black university – seemed like the ideal setting for such an announcement.

“But he didn’t,” Harris said. Instead, he said, Sanders gave a boilerplate talk about labor issues and other standard democratic socialist points that fell flat with his audience. Listeners wanted solutions on a more immediate matter: a recent wave of deaths among black men in confrontations with police.

“He didn’t address racial issues at all, until someone prompted him with a question at the end,” Harris said. “It seemed like an afterthought.”

To his highly problematic endorsement by Cornel West, a man who has expressed a lot of hostility against the President. Hostility that's considered by a lot of black voters to be unfair.

Sanders has been received by Black voters with skepticism. While he has drawn large crowds, his events have been perceived as “white spaces” due to the support he is receiving largely from white progressives and liberals. Born in Brooklyn, N.Y., Sanders’ home state of Vermont is among the whitest states in the nation, with a population that is 95 percent white and 1 percent Black. Although he points to his involvement in the civil rights struggles of the 1960s, his political platform had focused on economic and class issues that appeal to the white left. A new generation of Black activists wants to know what Sanders—and other candidates—have done for them lately on issues that concern them.

Dr. West, who was once a supporter of the president and subsequently became highly critical of Obama’s treatment of issues affecting the Black community, believes Sanders’ benefit to Black America is his interest in investing in poor and working people, and fighting against the excesses of Wall Street.

However, the endorsement also poses risks for Sanders among Black voters, given that West drew the ire of some in the Black community when he lashed out at Obama for being afraid to challenge white supremacy, poverty and the criminal justice system, and called him the “first n*gger-ized president.” West also called Obama “a disastrous response to a catastrophe,” among other things. Of course, West has not been the only Black critic of the president, though he has been among the most vocal. The president has high approval ratings among the Black electorate.

According to an August 2015 Gallup survey, Hillary Clinton had a 68 percent net favorability rating among African Americans. The poll gives Sanders a 23 percent favorability rating. While he trails Clinton, polls show Sanders surging in primary states such as Iowa and New Hampshire.

http://atlantablackstar.com/2015/08/26/cornel-west-endorses-bernie-sanders-will-make-difference-black-voters/

Sure, in the interim there were the #BLM protests at NetRoots and Seattle which did help Sanders alter the tone of his message to black voters somewhat. But, it's quite clear that, especially to sophisticated black voters, that his message as it is, has to go a bit further in order to resonate.

[arcane1]

13. Nobody said it would be easy. It's a campaign.

Still lots of work to do!

[MrScorpio]

15. True, it is a campaign. At least that's your take on it as well. I do give you some credit for that

As I do give credit to Sanders for at least going to South Carolina and delivering the kind of message that indicates that he's being sincere in the way that he's altered his messages, post NetRoots and Seattle.

But despite that, he has three tall hurdles to pass:

1. He simply needs to distance his message from what black voters expect will be the same coming from Clinton. If both messages regarding race and equality are received as alike, Sanders simply won't be able to overtake Clinton with black voters due to her higher degree of familiarity with them.

2. Although Sanders himself was clear and unambiguous in his language in South Carolina, that whole Cornel West business was something that he could have done without. How much of one canceled out the other, we have to wait and see.

3. There still quite a bit of issues between black voters and many of Sanders' white supporters. There's still the element of alienation. Trust me, black voters will not respond well if Sanders' white supporters try to tell them how to think. His white supporters needs to learn to listen to black people's concerns, just as Sanders himself appears to have. There's a lag here, but it's clear that Sanders' supporters need to follow his lead. Especially when it becomes quite clear that he's still trailing Clinton.

The first and last parts are the most crucial.

[SusanCalvin]

21. From your keyboard to the campaign's ears, er screen. nt

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

26. Here's a line you didn't highlight.

Clinton’s lead among black voters has little to do with her policy positions and everything to do with familiarity.

We've still got time for Bernie to get more familiarity.

[MrScorpio]

27. I'm not doubting this…

But it's not an end all be all thing.

Just simply being more familiar with him isn't necessarily the ONLY thing that'll drive his numbers up.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

28. Sure.

Doing things differently could help a lot too. I still think his trend lines are encouraging, if rising somewhat slower than I'd like with AA voters. But he doesn't have to win them over en masse until the general. In the primary, he just has to be able to split the vote with Hillary. I still think he has the potential to do that by the time various primaries roll around. Hillary's Carolina lead has dropped from 78-8 to 46-23 in the last 6 weeks, and there's certainly a lot more than 6 weeks left before they vote. If he can even simply split the black vote evenly with her in the primary, her 'firewall' might vanish in a puff of smoke.

[MrScorpio]

34. That is, if he wins the primary…

I'm not invested at all in any single primary candidate. To me, one Democrat is just as good as the other. I wouldn't hesitate to vote for the nominee, whomever it is.

Rather than worrying about how the black vote is divided, I'm more concerned in the party getting the message that we have to do something about systemic white supremacy, discrimination and bias. It's still early and all of them can still get onboard.

The thing is, if they're all echoing the same message in unison, then you're going to have to account for other factors, if you're still more concerned with the horse race between each of the candidates.

One of those factors is going to be how each one distinguishes their own message to black voters.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

39. Does Clinton even have a racial justice platform yet?

Is she 'as good as the other(s)' even if she hasn't bothered to put out a list even of the problems as she sees them and her ideas as to what needs to change?

Or is she merely echoing what O'Malley and Sanders had already established?

If we just assume any is as good as any other, then all a candidate would have to do is say exactly what another candidate says and they should split the vote 50-50.

The parts of your comment I agree with here are paragraphs 2 and 4. The party needs to get the message that these are issues that MUST be addressed, and the candidates have to message in such a way as to show they understood and agree. They have to adopt the proper 'tone' to attract voters, because tone does matter in communicating a message.

[MrScorpio]

45. I'm not really concerned with debating the merits of one candidate vs the other...

If so, I would have posted this thread in GD-P instead.

Also, I've mentioned before that it's early in the season and each candidate has time to adjust their message accordingly. If not, then it's really their own individual problem.

Whether or not Clinton and O'Malley have established the requisitely satisfactory message for resolving the problems of white supremacy and race based discrimination at this point, I'm quite sure that #Blacklivesmatter activists are currently involved with their campaigns. I hope that #blm is applying pressure in each of their cases, as I also hope that they're still firmly in touch and putting the pressure on Sanders' campaign.

The question that the candidates are being asked I'm sure is, "Are you listening?"

The point is that, no matter which candidate is nominated, they should all expected to hear black voices demanding the necessary change. How this message is effectively translated to party policy, the way to do that is for a particular candidate to show that they are able to lead the party.

Which one ever one demonstrates that ability to lead the party the best, getting it to fully endorse the end of white supremacy and race based discrimination, should be the one to not only earn the black vote, but also force the other candidates to seek the same.

I would call that a win-win.

[PatrickforO]

129. Wow, you just got your BSN? Cool! Congrats, if in order! As to your post, I agree

with what you're saying about Bernie's potential. It is ironic that Bernie has been suffering a virtual MSM blackout, and because of this many AAs aren't hearing his message. We all knew this would happen going in. Hopefully, Sanders will keep making inroads with both recognition and positive message.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

131. Just?

I've had it for a couple of years now. If I said something that seemed to imply I just got it, I spoke inartfully.

As to Bernie's potential, I really don't know what it is, but I don't think anyone else does, either. Everyone has been operating off the conventional wisdom, and I think that's misled a lot of folks. By the conventional wisdom, a self-avowed 'Democratic Socialist' should be as low in the polls as Kucinich ever was in his Presidential run - even Webb should be ahead of Bernie. He's another old white guy when the country is fed up with old white guys running the place.

But a lot of folks never really felt like they recovered from what Bush did to the country. Obama helped a little, but never finished the job. Many of the dispossessed from Katrina are still dispossessed. Millions who lost jobs have simply dropped out of the workforce entirely - job gains have merely kept up with population growth, if that, so while measured unemployment is down again, the labour participation rate is at it's worst in a half century. People have less money, they see no future, and so Bernie comes along and tells them the truth - that wealth redistribution is real, and it's been FROM them and their families TO the richest of the rich - folks like the Clintons, the Bushes, the Trumps and Fiorinas. That 'the recovery', even under a supposed champion of the people as Obama, has passed them by and gone almost exclusively to the powerful and connected.

And they're pissed off. They're being killed by agents of the state, police, who seem to be beyond the law, who can do whatever they want as long as they keep the 'lower classes' in line and protect the possessions and persons of the elite. They're seeing their water poisoned by companies owned by those elite, their food being ever more monopolized by giant 'agribusinesses'. Nature being destroyed around them, the climate becoming unpredictable, even deadly.

They don't just 'hope' for 'change', they NEED it to survive. Because the path the neocons and neolibs have us on is going to leave most of us dead, and the rest merely as servants to the elite.

[totodeinhere]

36. I don't understand why so many black voters are not familiar with Sanders.

White voters apparently are very familiar with Sanders, hence his strong support from that demographic. But don't African Americans have access to the same sources of information that everyone else does? Why are white voters more likely to be familiar with Sanders than black voters are?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

40. I don't think you've looked at the polls much.

Sanders does not have strong support among white voters. He has strongER support than he does among AA, but he still trails Clinton fairly dramatically nationally. He's only ahead of her in the places he's gone and given multiple speeches for the last few months. And those places are largely white for the most part.

[JustAnotherGen]

48. I'm AfAm in my early 40's

O'Malley has strong strong die hard black supporters - myself included.

We aren't relying on the internet.

And I'm not telling you how I'm doing outreach this weekend, where, and what demographics.

That's for O'Malley AfAm die hards to know - and Clinton and Sanders die hards to figure out too late. <--- A little chuckling here - but I'm surprised his campaign hasn't secured grass roots level support even AFTER no labels (Huntsman/Lieberman/Manchin Organization) gave him a Problem Solver Thumbs Up this week for going to Liberty University.

[Gothmog]

92. It also has to do with viability

Sanders is not appealing to a couple of the key demographic groups in the Democratic coalition. The polling shows this and the fact that only six members of the CBC showed up at a Sanders meeting is further evidence of the fact that Sanders' appeal is not working outside a very narrow group of supporters.

I like Sanders and he is closer to my positions according to that online quiz than Hillary Clinton's position but I am supporting Hillary Clinton because I am not convinced that Sanders is viable in the general election. If you want to expand Sanders' appeal to other groups, Sanders needs to demonstrate viability.

Viability is very important to African American voters. Sanders is not going to appeal to voters in key demographic blocks without some real evidence of viability. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2015/09/bernie_sanders_presidential_campaign_what_would_it_take_for_the_vermont.html

. For as much as black Americans might like his policy positions—which fit their enthusiasm for a stronger safety net—they’re also strategic voters, not ideological stalwarts. Electability is key, and as a consequence, they tend to back the establishment choice: Al Gore over Bill Bradley; John Kerry over John Edwards. On occasion, blacks will back a factional candidate, like Jesse Jackson in 1984 and 1988. But Jackson had the reverse problem—he couldn’t win enough whites.

Again, Sanders would have a stronger campaign if someone could provide a good explanation as to viability and I doubt that Sanders will make significan inroads with the African American community without this proof. I was a bundlers event last week held by some African American professionals and right now in Texas there is strong support for Hillary Clinton in the African American community.

[cascadiance]

101. With viability, it's not just visibility, but stances on issues that voters are waiting for...

I think there's a lot more voters that Sanders can appeal to than those in the corporate media claim what they define as a "far left" candidate appeals to. That's a label, and they can continue to use that label, as long as they control his visibility, and stances on issues are put down in to the noise level until we finally start a real election process with some debates a couple of weeks from now.

Trump is leading the Republicans and aside from the appeal that he has to many of the extremists with his xenophobic rants, I think there's also a lot of support from those who don't like the TPP and H-1B Visas (that play to them with the xenophobic augmentations, that don't appeal to us Bernie supporters on the left, but who also dislike the PTB's stances on these issues that take away many people's jobs and hurt people globally in terms of jobs, not just here). They also like that he's not beholden to corporate donor money if he has his own money to spend on his campaign. The voters that like independence from corporate donors and who hate job stealing programs like TPP and H-1B are those that will be more likely to switch over to vote for Bernie than those who would switch over for Hillary.

His issues stances are supported by a majority of Americans as polls have shown, and many who up until now are judging him by name recognition will see these stances during the debates, as long as the topics of the debates aren't totally skewed to topics that don't threaten the corporate PTB.

Many of us Bernie supporters, though some try to mischaracterize Bernie's stances on gun regulation, much as a number of people did the same to fellow Vermonter Howard Dean before he left the campaign in 2004. But I'm trying to personally use the increased conscience of fellow Oregonians of gun violence needing an answer to be conscientious not to disregard the case of what I think may be another case of excessive law enforcement violence here in Portland area just a day after the events in Roseburg as noted in this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141223431

The woman in question here that was killed still hasn't been identified and may be a person of color. But given that there's no video record of what happened, all the more reason we need to bird dog the news as it comes out, and look for inconsistencies, etc. and call them out on it when they happen to ensure that justice is done. If it is a person of color, perhaps we can get that much more awareness of the need to change the system here in Oregon to protect citizens more from the abuses of law enforcement with what else has happened here the last few days, and the horror of people getting shot is more affecting us all here.

We care, and just in this county where this incident occurred, there recently was a resolution by our county's Democratic party passed on this topic here:

http://www.washcodems.org/sites/washington.oregondemocrats.org/files/attachments/Deadly%20Force%20-rev_1.pdf

Let's work together on these issues. I believe Bernie wants these outcomes too, and have seen nothing that anyone has shown that he hasn't also been as concerned and willing to work help solve such issues.

[Gothmog]

106. Sanders is bringing a knife to a gunfight

Some candidates are better able to raise the funds necessary to complete. President Obama blew everyone away in 2008 with his small donor fundraising efforts and that made it clear that he was electable. Jeb is trying to do the same on the GOP side with his $100 million super pac.

There are many on this board who doubt that Sanders will be able to compete in a general election contest where the Kochs will be spending $887 million and the RNC candidate will likely spend another billion. This article had a very interesting quote about the role of super pacs in the upcoming election http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jul/03/bernie-sanders-grassroots-movement-gains-clinton-machine

Harvard University professor Lawrence Lessig, who founded a Super Pac to end Super Pacs, said Sanders’ renouncing Super Pacs is tantamount to “bringing a knife to a gunfight”.

“I regret the fact the Bernie Sanders has embraced the idea that he’s going to live life like the Vermont snow, as pure as he possibly can, while he runs for president, because it weakens his chances – and he’s an enormously important progressive voice,” Lessig said.

President Obama was against super pacs in 2012 but had to use one to keep the race close. I do not like super pacs but any Democratic candidate who wants to be viable has to use a super pac

[cascadiance]

108. Ultimately what count are VOTES... OUR votes! Money only buys visibility

And lately Bernie has been raising a LOT of money, even if not from traditional CORPORATIST sources that so many candidates have done recently that have corrupted their mission that is supposed to be supporting the voting populace, not those paying for their campaigns.

Maybe in more recent elections, not using Super PACs might not have worked, but many of us, as well as analysts are seeing that this election represents a revolutionary (for lack of a better term) time where the public is increasingly FED UP with bought politicians, which explains why Donald Trump is upsetting Republicans in leading polls when he's the only one that's not being "bought" by other people's money. He may represent the wealthy, since he is wealthy himself, but he's at least his own person more, which I think resonates with Republicans, as disgusting as he may be as a person to many of us. But that reflects a larger consensus of American voters that don't want someone that is "bought and paid for" any more and is more conscious of when the PTB is pushing their money to get certain people elected.

For so long POC have had to endure abuse of a state that hasn't worked to help them get rights that they've sought for centuries now. There aren't many times when opportunity presents itself to introduce fundamental change to a state's system to make a difference and get that sort of change to happen. Many of us believe that time is now, and that Bernie is the one person that is trying to make that real change. I've yet to see people's explanation of why he isn't that person, and why that sort of change he tries to have happen isn't something they also want, and how the status quo will ultimately help them, when it has failed for so many years now to do so in its present corrupt state.

Obama also turned down public campaign financing dollars too. I believe that Bernie will make a point of taking these dollars this time around, as it is something he'd like to see more the way we finance elections in the future to take out the BRIBING (and make that offense a crime again as it used to be before corruption "redefined" that action) out of the system.

[Gothmog]

117. You can count on a very narrow demographic to support Sanders

To expand that base, you need money. In a general election, Sanders would be operating at a disadvantage and would be buried by negative ads on super pacs. The people who a democratic candidate needs to win will not vote for sanders after $400 in negative ads using the terms socialist and socialism.

Sanders is not electable

[cascadiance]

120. The polls on issues that Sanders supports shows a MAJORITY of AMERICANS supporting what he supports!

A majority of Americans is NOT a "narrow demographic" despite the attempts to throw out that propaganda.

Those ads against him being a socialist will work no better than us telling the truth about the Republicans and the DLC organization taking money from the Kochs that were funded by COMMUNIST DICTATOR Joseph Stalin in his documented deals with Fred Koch.

People don't care about crap associated with people labeling others in such fashion. They want solutions to their problems, and the issues that they face day to day, that Bernie is about the only one willing to take on the corrupt money that buys so much of our government NOT to deal with what a majority of Americans (this "narrow demographic&quot cares about.

Sanders is electable, but you can bet that the corporate media and other corporate bought entities will try to keep pushing the opposite notion because they are most afraid of him changing the system rather than their surrogates in both parties.

[Gothmog]

124. Do you have a link to these polls?

Sanders is only polling well in states with 90+% white voters. No polling shows Sanders doing well in other states that I am aware of.

[cascadiance]

125. Sure! Read them and weep!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/128056418

[Gothmog]

130. Did you read these polls?

They do not come close to supporting your claims

[jfern]

109. Let me get this straight

We have a professor whose SuperPAC had every candidate it helped lose telling someone who has 33 years of elected positions that he's too pure to win elections?

[Gothmog]

116. Why don't you explain how Sanders can win in a general election contest w/o super pac?

[cascadiance]

121. Why don't you explain how you KNOW he can't!

FDR would have called out the "economic royalists" who tried to buy out politicians in his time. People want that again. That is why many Republicans support Trump. Because he's the only one that isn't using other people's money (he's using his own) to run his campaign. Now he's got a few other screws loose, and he is one of the wealthy class himself, but that doesn't stop people of all political stripes wanting less "bought off" politicians in Washington.

[jfern]

122. He'll raise a few hundred million dollars if he's the nominee

Both times, Obama raised over $700 million, and he had fewer donors than Sanders has already. Now Sanders might not raise quite that much. But when he was first elected to the US Senate, he was outspent. He won over 2-1.

[BlueStateLib]

79. Iowa PPP (D) 9/18

PPP (D) 9/18 - 9/20 488 RV 43 22 17 Clinton +21

[elehhhhna]

53. Will that result in high turnout though?

In the primaries? Probably not.

She lost her last bid. Since then she got a great gig, but her usual fakeyness as a candidate plus unnecessary, even reckless IT fuckery etc. ...Oh hell I give up.

[Gothmog]

89. That is a great chart

[Human101948]

4. Yes, this is a bogus premise...

The Clintons have been front and center for two decades.

[Historic NY]

12. Really its been said he was a great civil rights marcher...

apparently it didn't make him a legend or a mark anywhere.

[global1]

9. From The OP Here's The Quote That I Would Like Some Explanation For....

But the reality is that, at least in the eyes of some African American activists, he just isn't saying what those voters want to hear.

What do those voters want to hear? How is Hillary addressing what they want to hear? Why is what Bernie is now saying - not resonating with black voters? What can we do to change that?

[leftofcool]

62. I can try to simplify it for you.

Bernie's philosophy is "a rising tide lifts all boats." I get that but here is the problem, if you're Black, you ain't got a boat.

[global1]

68. What Can Bernie Do To Help Get Those Boats?.....

What does he need to say? What does he and we need to do?

[leftofcool]

69. I think there are others in this thread much more qualified to answer.

I am not evading, I just don't think I am qualified to answer for those who have endured so much racism.

[Anansi1171]

82. He needs to say that Blacks matter, and that an America...

... Which continues its institional practice of marginalizing them is not one he will tolerate.

He needs to say that while economic justice is important,it still would be the absence of JUSTICE without an overarching commitment to civil and human rights at its vanguard.

He needs to say he wants the votes of white Americans, but that in 2015 he knows that no other group has historically and habitually worked to limit the opportunities of just about EVERY OTHER GROUP OF "OTHERS" in America, and that's true to this very day.

He needs to say that the politics of race are pernicious, and while more rural and working class whites may truly be victims of class warfare, it's beyond fucking absurd to contemplate their victimhood for being white.

He needs to call out the bigots in his movement and implore the tone deaf to listen harder, and harder, AND HARDER.

For starters...

[Number23]

83. I want to drizzle this post in blueberry syrup and eat it with a stack of pancakes

He needs to say he wants the votes of white Americans, but that in 2015 he knows that no other group has historically and habitually worked to limit the opportunities of just about EVERY OTHER GROUP OF "OTHERS" in America, and that's true to this very day.

Good Lord, yes. Yes!!!!!

[noiretextatique]

10. sanders black support has increased from 6% to 14% in 3 months

how in the hell can that be possible given this "black problem"?

[Bobbie Jo]

16. What's with the scare quotes?

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

41. I believe the commenter is suggesting

that the problem is being overhyped, and that time will show that it wasn't as big of a problem as it's being played up to be in the media.

[leftofcool]

61. You are never going to understand until you read the entire AA group

Go back a few months and maybe you will understand. Or something more simple, read down a few posts and see things through someone else's eyes and not your own or Bernie's.

[kacekwl]

14. Some people have to get hit by a truck

before they realize they are playing in traffic. Sanders policies and positions help all people . If they think Clinton will suddenly solve their problems it is them who are not paying attention. Many of the problems they face , lack of jobs,worker rights ,healthcare etc are my problems and all our problems.We absolutely need to address racism in this country but if we as a whole do better I think alot of the US vs THEM will disappear and then we can better address racism.

[MrScorpio]

17. Any Democrat will help solve problems, but none of them are guaranteed to solve them all alone

Whatever candidate makes the strongest stand to abolish white supremacy and anti-black bias and discrimination, that'll be the one who'll get the most attention. Which basically means that that candidate is going to have take his or her message to white voters. Black voters already know what the problem is.

White supremacy and anti-black bias and discrimination are the MAIN problem regarding race in this country. Yet most white people aren't aware of this fact and especially that this is a white issue in this country.

So, unless they do realize it, there will always be that element of "US vs THEM."

Unfortunately, white people are the slowest to move against the problem. Black people can teach and protest until the cows come home, but that doesn't that they have to power to change it.

[kacekwl]

22. White supremacist and racial bias are a BIG

problem but in my opinion lack of access to education and economic development are a bigger problem for blacks and for all of us.

[MrScorpio]

24. If you would take the time to read Number23's post below…

You'd notice that it's our point of view which stipulates that it is racism and white supremacy that are the caused of these problems not the other way around.

Educated and well-to-do black people in this country are still at a much higher risk to be discriminated against, despite how much money they have and how educated they are.

And yes, it is a black problem, but it's still a white person's country. We need a candidate who'll tell white people that.

[JustAnotherGen]

59. Are you for free college for all?

Because you brought up education.

A black 16 year old in Newark NJ or rural Mississippi or hell - even Detroit - they aren't prepared for Notre Dame on day one.


While Clinton and Sanders were BOTH in Congress:
That 16 year old's mother received sub standard prenatal care.
His parents might have worked themselves to the bone, but it wasn't enough to pull them out of a lower income neighborhood.
Maybe he got Head Start.
But his primary school didn't teach him the basics.
His middle school didn't give him the foundation he needed for AP Calculus and English.

And one wants to give speeches about how she's a fighter and the other one wants to give him a free college education?

Neither one was doing the right thing 14/15 years ago and now that kid is NOT PREPARED. Neither one.


And only one candidate is talking about transforming (IN detail) the fourth year of high school and is willing to ackowledge that middle class kids and higher are the ones prepared for college on day one -

But he can help the kid who is not make a GOOD living in a skilled job with a solid wage.



But we are sick and tired of hearing your song
Telling how you are gonna change right from wrong
'Cause if you really want to hear our views "You haven't done nothing"! Stevie Wonder

[Scuba]

43. "Any Democrat will help solve problems" No, some helped create the problems.

https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/07/23/private-prison-lobbyists-raising-cash-hillary-clinton/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2015/04/30/why-hillary-clinton-lacks-credibility-on-criminal-justice-reform/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_Act_of_1996

Not all Democrats are created equally.

[MrScorpio]

46. But all of them are better than any Republican. nt

[JustAnotherGen]

60. +1 and

Republicans are ass wipes.

[JustAnotherGen]

49. It would be a good idea

When you are in canvassing in mostly black neighborhoods this Primary to make sure you share that thought!

[Number23]

18. We'll add Ms. Kimberley to the four million people that have tried to relay this message to the

Sanders campaign to apparently no avail:

In other words, it isn't that the economy is the cause of racial disparities, but rather that racism is the cause of economic disparities.

"We have a fundamental disagreement with Bernie Sanders that racism is somehow an offshoot from economic exploitation when the reality is that race and class in America are inextricably linked to the rise of capitalism in this country," activist Kimberly Ellis told Weigel.

Even his own PRESS MANAGER has apparently tried to tell him this:

“One of my suggestions, he took it and ran with it on Meet the Press, is that racial inequality and economic inequality are parallel issues,” she said. “I [told him,] you know, economic equality is an issue. It’s something we need to address. But for some people it doesn’t matter how much money you make, it doesn’t matter where you went to school, it doesn’t matter what your parents do. It doesn’t matter that Sandra Bland had a job and was on her way to teach for her alma mater. It doesn’t matter. None of that matters.”http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/bernie-sanders-campaign-adds-young-black-woman-as-new-public#.ag6zoEB69

[MrScorpio]

19. Damn Skippy!

Once Sanders starts pushing this message instead, then he'll start to resonate with more black voters.

Now only if we can also get the masses of his followers to do the same thing…

[tishaLA]

20. and there it is

...what so many people don't get: "In other words, it isn't that the economy is the cause of racial disparities, but rather that racism is the cause of economic disparities."

Accurate. Concise. Damning.

[BumRushDaShow]

23. Spot on.

For black billionaires like Oprah Winfrey, the "economics" aren't the issue. It's her black face. Many blacks with wealth (often populated by entertainment and sports figures) are routinely followed around stores, pulled over in their vehicles, and accosted on the street. The rest of us are outright killed nowadays. That has nothing to do with "economics" and everything to do with centuries of careful, persistent, and pernicious indoctrination and brainwashing designed to put blacks and other POC at the bottom of the heap.

Hell - I think we all remember the kerfuffle of Henry Louis Gates being arrested trying to get into his own house, followed by the much-derided media-dubbed "beer summit".

[Number23]

30. You nailed it.

That has nothing to do with "economics" and everything to do with centuries of careful, persistent, and pernicious indoctrination and brainwashing designed to put blacks and other POC at the bottom of the heap.

Absolutely nailed it.

[steve2470]

32. yes you nailed it nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

38. + a million

[Starry Messenger]

25. It's amazing to me that people don't get this.

In other words, it isn't that the economy is the cause of racial disparities, but rather that racism is the cause of economic disparities.

"We have a fundamental disagreement with Bernie Sanders that racism is somehow an offshoot from economic exploitation when the reality is that race and class in America are inextricably linked to the rise of capitalism in this country," activist Kimberly Ellis told Weigel.

How could it be an offshoot? The country was founded by white slave owners. The racial exploitation & economic exploitation of the slave labor of Blacks wasn't a shoot, it was the damn tree. At the time of the Civil War, the single greatest monetary asset in the US was Black bodies. https://eh.net/encyclopedia/slavery-in-the-united-states/

(And in the 21st century, you still have a Presidential candidate on the right still trying to argue that we could go back anytime...so it's not like this stuff is all quite settled and over with, even on the basics.)

[Number23]

31. You NAILED it!

The racial exploitation & economic exploitation of the slave labor of Blacks wasn't a shoot, it was the damn tree.

It was the DAMN TREE. Not a branch, not an offshoot. Not some by product by happenstance. It was the DAMN TREE. It was the ENTIRE POINT. And four hundred years later, we are still feeling it.

[Starry Messenger]

37. Thank you!

It was the biggest wealth transferral in history, the theft of forced Black labor. People whine about reparations, when really, the wages that should have gone to the Black workers who built and created so much was robbed, and we still benefit today from those stolen assets. Our economy was built on it.

And four hundred years later, we are still feeling it.

I don't know why otherwise sensible people will realize that if you poison a river, that it will take years to clear it enough to be a river again, even if you remove the source of the toxin--but cannot see that when you introduce a toxic and miserable system like slavery into society, that hinders growth and freedom for centuries for a people, that even when you stop the source of the first injury, the effects still linger on and on unless your society adopts aggressive mitigation to stop racism. (That's probably a terrible metaphor, but that's how I picture it in my head.)

[scarletwoman]

29. Capitalist economics will always deem certain humans expendable. Racism determines which humans

those will be.

I've been thinking about a part of the history of my own home town, St. Paul, Minnesota. I haven't lived there since 1971, but my 89-year-old dad still does, as well as various members of my extended family, so I still pay attention to what goes on there.

In the 1950s, planning began for the construction of a freeway that would connect St. Paul to Minneapolis - its "Twin City" on the other side of the Mississippi River. This was part of President Eisenhower's initiative for building an interstate highway system spanning the U.S.

By 1960 or so, the route was chosen and the bulldozing began. And the bulldozing began in a neighborhood known as Rondo, named for the central street that ran through it. It will come as no surprise to anyone here that Rondo happened to be a thriving African American community that had been established since the mid-1800s and continued to be settled by blacks moving north out of the South throughout Reconstruction and Jim Crow.

Over the years the AA community in Rondo had built thriving businesses, they owned their own homes, they built their own churches and schools, they had created an island of safe refuge and self-sufficiency amidst the sea of white northern European inhabitants of St. Paul all around them. Most of all, they had built a sense of community, and pride in that community.

Then came the bulldozers. Although the planners from the Transportation Department could have chosen a route further north, through an industrial area, that wouldn't have destroyed a residential area, they chose to route the new freeway right through the heart of Rondo.

Hundreds and hundreds of black homeowners were displaced - and cheated on the "compensation" they were supposed to receive for the loss of their homes. Same with the black-owned businesses. The neighborhood, the community, was literally ripped apart to make way for the freeway.

Rondo was not a "blighted" area. The community was not economically down-trodden. They may not have been rich like the white mansion owners just south of them on Summit Avenue (location of railroad magnate J.J. Hill's mansion, among others), but they did all right.

No, the Rondo community was deemed expendable by the white bureaucrats who planned the freeway route, for no other reason than racism. Economic self-sufficiency did not save the citizens of Rondo from having their homes and their businesses destroyed.

[Number23]

33. Exactly. And this kind of thing has happened over and over and over again

And if these people had been able to keep their homes and their businesses, that would have gone a long way towards their wealth and any assistance they would have been able to pass on to their children and grandchildren.

By decimating that community they affected the mental and economic health of those people for generations. And that's exactly what bulldozing that area was intended to do.

[scarletwoman]

35. Thank you. There's no addressing "income inequality" unless you recognize the fact of the systemic

racism that has robbed African Americans at every turn of their own opportunities to accumulate and pass on wealth/property over generations like white people have been able to do.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

42. I'm fairly certain Sanders realizes that.

And (my guess again, I'm not his personal mindreader) I would suspect he doesn't think you can legislate racism out of existence, but that you CAN change the systemic wealth inequality that empowers whites and disempowers blacks, thus giving black people more power to take more leadership roles in society, to move out of low-wealth areas with poor schools and nearby environmental hazards, and to change the factors that prevent them from having more control instead of being controlled. The things that actually give them the opportunity to accumulate and pass on wealth. Hence his decades-long focus on raising the poor (most minority groups) into equal wealth and power with others.

[JustAnotherGen]

50. You know Erich

A lot of his supporters don't - many I'm assuming will be volunteering.

I'm perfectly okay with them not getting it.

Seriously.

Helps me.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

52. Laugh.

You should have been in on the letter 1SBM sent me about this comment. He and I go in circles about it. I agree that Bernie isn't tackling racial issues head on (yet), but I think ANY candidate we nominate is going to have to continue to be pushed here, and I think Bernie is as open to being pushed as anyone else among our choices.

People talk about Bernie as being about radical change, but to me he's just incremental change - in the right direction for a change. So I try to get people to vote for the incrementally better candidate The lesser evil if you will

[JustAnotherGen]

56. The thing is

While he's waiting to tackle it Erich -

I'm going to be at an event - three consecutive days - three consecutive towns . . .

As an black woman -

Where I can reach black - think the getting by black grandmother raising her grandkids or helping to raise them - in a neighborhood with a lot of crime.

She doesn't want her good kid harassed -

But she wants the drug dealer off the street corner.

Now I'm going be getting a head start in a blue state at trying to stop Clinton this weekend amongs black voters on behalf of O'Malley.

Sanders will fall behind unless his foks get out there talk to people.


That black grandmothers - doesn't have that smart phone and if she does - she doesn't have the time to hang out on snap chat and whatsapp and instagram and twitter. She's facebooking her grandson's football game.

I know (personally) women like this. They are the ones who got me in the door at this event.

This is New Jersey - even if we are last in line at the primary - it would be a tremendous sucker punch to Clinton or Sanders to have those votes go to O'Malley.

But I'm going to do it - win or lose. I'm going to try.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

57. I wish you well.

And I do it from a selfish reason as well.

Bernie doesn't have to WIN the black vote in the primary. He just needs it not to be monolithic and behind Clinton. Every person you convince to back O'Malley is one less person behind Clinton, who, of the three, I honestly feel is least deserving of those votes.

And even though it puts a target on me, I'll say it again. I won't vote for Hillary in a general. But I could vote for O'Malley, albeit with less enthusiasm than I do for Bernie, simply because I'm not 100% sure that O'Malley really means what he's saying now, given his past differences.

[JustAnotherGen]

58. I'd say the same thing about

O'Malley and upper middle class, affluent, and rich white men.

I think O'Malley can get them. They don't ALL vote Republican. More likely - but the ones that do -

We chip those away from Clinton and knock on black women's doors - it's a three way race.

And because O'Malley is the underdog - I'm betting there's a lot more room for upset than Sanders or Clinton would probably like to to admit.

I can't see how him saying "I was wrong" is a bad thing or "I apologize" withOUT a 'but' is bad either.


Three words we will never in a million years hear from Clinton or Sanders. They don't do that. It's not their style. They come from an area of damn the torpedos full steam ahead. That's what they know and that's what they are sticking with.

[uponit7771]

72. You can legislate the effects out to a smaller degree though and dismantel the infrastructure that

... allows this kind of racism.

[mhatrw]

44. Maybe people should listen to what Sanders is actually saying.

Advance to the 2:05:12 mark.

[MrScorpio]

47. I'd like to point one thing out for the record...

Right at this very second, I have no plans on endorsing any of the primary candidates. Even if I chose one tomorrow, I certainly wouldn't announce it on the internet.

I'm pretty much dulled to all of the overselling of each of the candidates in this primary and frankly, the nomination of our choice can not come too soon for me. The animosity, the bridge-burning, the back-biting and the cheer-leading is all a big turn off.

Whoever we pick, so be it, and let's go beat some Republicans.

The point about the right message is that they should all be saying it. That's why #blacklivesmatter and why I posted this OP here.

If folks are wondering why the story is about Sanders, I figure that it's because he's the one who is expected the most to perform in that arena based on his current rhetoric.

In spite of which candidate it was written about, my primary concern lays with the black voter side of that equation.

[mhatrw]

64. Did you listen to the speech excerpt? Did you like or dislike what you heard?

Advance to the 2:05:12 mark.

What did Sanders say that you disagree with? What did he leave out that also needs saying?

How far do you think BLM has succeeded in getting Sanders to evolve his rhetoric and change his priorities?

[MrScorpio]

65. I listened and I've never said that I disliked what he said… I'm glad that he said it.

But I'm looking at the big picture here and not any particular candidate.

What I'd like to see here is that the other candidates now pick up the gauntlet that he threw down. The point being that fighting institutional racism needs to be something that the party as a whole strives for… As one of our core beliefs.

I appreciate the fact that he's now tailored his message accordingly, after the encounters with #blacklivesmatters activists. And the from what I've seen, they too are pleased with the results so far. So, in spite of what their Sanders' supporting detractors have said about them in the past, #BLM has been proven effective in their campaign to get their candidate to listen.

Further engagement and cooperation by #BLM activists, not only with Sanders, but with all of our candidates needs to be maintained and increased when needed.

We still have a long way to go until the convention, we can't allow the momentum to fade away.

[mhatrw]

67. 100% agreed

I was one of the knee jerk detractors of BLMs Sanders protesters. Luckily, I managed to evolve by listening and thinking. I applaud Sanders for doing the same.

You are also correct that there is a long way to go. However, Sanders at least addressed the issue forcefully and directly. And he asked his supporters to make ending institutional racism one of their priorities. So that is a very good start in the right direction. And I think that should be recognized. The "Sanders ignores social justice in favor of economic justice" days are thankfully over.

[JustAnotherGen]

51. No

He can send somoene to knock on my door or place a phone call.

If O'Malley can do it (face time and ear time) so can Sanders.

[bowens43]

54. Wow! Really? That's how you will decide who to support?

Not what they believe, not what they say, not by their record but whether or not they sent someone to knock on your door?


Really? LOL

[JustAnotherGen]

55. Jokes on you - Sanders will lose with you in his pocket

I'm saying I'm going to be knocking on doors.

In places like Camden and Newark.

Betcha the black foks there will know more about my candidate - O'Malley (especially older black women whom I can relate to) when I'm done than yours.




And if you think those black women (who we can vote - see we haven't been sent to prison in the droves our black peers did) are on your cute little twitter and instagram perusing your pics and 100 and change characters -


You are fooling yourself.


But I'm okay with that.

Your arrogance towards how to reach minorities and specifically black women who actually get off their asses and VOTE - suits me just fine.

Sanders is gonna lose if you are his precinct Captain and you need gotv black women in your community! You are going to be peeping and pic'ing to NO ONE!

[mhatrw]

63. Click on the video linked below. Advance to the 2:05:12 mark

Spend half of the 10 minutes you spent crafting your epic response to one Sanders' supporter actually educating yourself about what the leading Democratic alternative to Hillary Clinton just said told his supporters about institutional racism. Then you will have an informed opinion about Sanders' views on and commitment to the issues that matter most to BLM rather than an opinion that remains ignorant by design.

Did Sanders need to evolve on these issues? Definitely. But BLM clearly succeeded in getting Sanders to evolve. You should at least admire the results, if only to congratulate BLM activists for causing the intended effect and to suggest how you would like Sanders' views to evolve further.

[JI7]

66. all the dem candidates are equal on their personal views on race

Excluding jim webb.

[JustAnotherGen]

70. No - its a waste of time

Hes not going to be the nominee.

And this is the REAL response -

http://www.democraticunderground.com/12813362

And this isn't my first rodeo. . . From interning in Congress as little pup to helping Booker - I've been grass roots for a long time.

Loooong time.

But stick with your social media - I'm trying to craft a statement for a sit down with my state Senator to members of the state House to get our liquor laws changed here.

See - I know how to get things done.

[Cha]

71. Oh wow. I didn't know BS was blaming "the media" on his low AA supporter numbers! I do know

he's out there lying about President Obama and it's documented here.

[Gothmog]

90. That video shows why Sanders will have issues with getting African American votes

Sanders can not attack President Obama and expect to get the support of African American voters

[Cha]

93. And, I'm with the African American Voters, Gothmog. It's a silly strategy to go after an

accomplished, popular President. In fact it's a huge Blunder.

And, he wants to be President? I don't think so.

[Garrett78]

73. The positive perception of Clinton is something I don't get.

I get that many don't know who Sanders is, much less know anything about him--such as his support of Jesse Jackson's campaign for POTUS in the '80s.

What I don't get is why the Clintons are perceived as being strong on the issue of civil rights. Bill Clinton policies hurt persons of color. And Hillary Clinton employed the despicable Southern Strategy against Obama in '07/'08.

[JI7]

74. how is supporting JEsse JAckson for President something deserving of votes ?

and Sanders also voted for the Crime Bill that Clinton signed. Obama is more popular than JEsse JAckson and Obama is actually President and yet there is a lot of hate for Obama from these people.. some think black people should be grateful for anyone who voted for JEsse Jackson yet Obama gets a lot of hate from those same people.

Clinton didn't employ a southern strategy in 08. there were dog whistles with the loss of the black vote and trying to make it up with some white votes. but it's not comparable to republican southern strategy.

and i said this before but most black people, and gays, and others who are strong supporters of hers do not see her as a great activist for their cause. her supporters don't try to claim she is so great and deserving of support. they don't attack and lecture minorities on what is best for them.

but what she does is go to these communities herself. she has relationships with these communities even outside of campaigns. minorities are a part of their lives . people feel comfortable with her. and she listens to people .

i'm not a huge fan of hers but i can see why she has support among certain groups.

[jfern]

75. I don't think it's hate of Obama

Just disappointment on the issues.

But there are plenty of places where Bernie supporters and Obama are going to agree like that Hillary's idea of having a no fly zone where Russian planes are flying is ridiculous.

Are people really attacking and lecturing minorities? Minorities are not some monolith and are going to support or oppose Sanders for various reasons.

[JI7]

76. i plan to vote for Sanders because i like him better than Clinton

but what i'm seeing is hate towards Clinton and towards Obama.

i guess you must have missed a lot and didn't read many of the threads here as the attacking and lecturing of minorities has been a big issue here.

[jfern]

77. Sanders isn't running against Obama

While there's definitely disappointment on some, there's not hate. Obama has done a lot of good things, it's just that people feel he could have done more.
Now there might be some actual hate for Clinton.

I know there were some issues after the BLM protests. But Bernie supporters do agree that he did need to listen and improve his message.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251631566

[JI7]

78. nope, it is hate

[jfern]

80. I think it's mostly a disagreement on the issues

Of course there will be a few who hate Obama, but most Democrats don't hate him.

[JI7]

81. i'm not talking about most democrats .

[Number23]

84. LOL Your linked to thread offering a (extremely late) conciliatory attitude towards BLM and black

issues got about 1/5 the recs and 1/3 the responses from the usual crowd. Go and check the threads where the BLM protesters were called "thugs" or "subhuman" and the painful, endless discussion about the young woman that had a Sarah Palin pin on her backpack when she was a teenager. Now THOSE were some OPs. HUNDREDS of recs there. You would have thought she'd blown up a synagogue the way certain folks were acting around here.

I honestly have no idea how you thought that linking to that poorly received thread would in any way bolster your argument that Sanders supporters are serious that he needs to improve his outreach and message to black people. If anything, it shows the complete and total opposite of the message you were trying to convey.

[Gothmog]

91. Sanders can not attack President Obama and expect the support of AA

[zappaman]

94. Hate to tell you this...

But Sanders can not attack Obama and expect a lot of support from Democrats.
There is a post in GDP calling the last 7 years a "disaster".
Yeah right.

[jfern]

95. That's just 1 post

Searching GDP for the recent 2 pages of threads for references in the title to Obama, I found 2 saying that Bernie sided with Obama over Hillary on the no-fly zone, some comparing the Obama 2008 campaign to the Sanders campaign, and some having Sanders mention support for ObamaCare or Obama's push for stronger gun laws. Not exactly running from Obama there.

[zappaman]

96. 107 people recced that shit.

Last seven years a "disaster".

[jfern]

97. I found one thread that mentions the word disaster

But doesn't mention "last 7 years' or Obama.

The latest poll has 27% are satisfied with the direction of the country and 69% are dissatisfied. I think that thread may be more about that than anything specific to Obama.

http://www.pollingreport.com/right.htm

[zappaman]

98. Uh huh

[jfern]

99. Oh I found that

I was just looking at the OP of the thread because you mentioned the recs. Well, the last 7 years certainly haven't been great, but it shouldn't have been worded that way since the years before then were if anything a bit worse. I'd say the last 35 years of American politics have been terrible. And Obama has been the best President in those 35 years.

[JI7]

110. depends on who you ask. for minorities things weren't so great before

35 years ago.

[jfern]

113. Progress has certainly been made in some areas, but other areas went backwards

As for that 7 years comment, maybe it wasn't just Republicans with amnesia. Here's what Sanders said today.

"In their world, every problem that you can possibly imagine is caused by Barack Obama,” Sanders quipped at a campaign rally in Boston. "If there is rain, if it’s too hot, if there’s a mosquito in the room, it is all Barack Obama.”

"But we really can’t gloat, because they suffer from a very serious amnesia problem,” Sanders continued. "A serious illness that seems to afflict Republican presidential candidates. They can’t help it, but they just cannot remember the way things were seven years ago."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1251645156

[Gothmog]

119. I agree

[Bernblu]

87. I don't understand the African American support for Clinton.

Her neo-liberal wall street based economic policies are just going to make all of the problems worse. Income inequality will get worse, poverty will go up, the middle class will continue to disappear, more money will be spent on wars and the military, the social fabric will continue to fray leading to even more racism against African Americans and other minorities. She will give lip service to racial justice for African American but nothing fundamental will change.

With Bernie we have the possibility for real change - free tuition at public colleges, $15 an hour minimum wage, single payer health care, less income inequalities. Bernie has spoken for Racial Justice in his campaign speeches and has released a detailed policy position paper on racial justice that can be found here:

[link:https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/|

Bernie talks the talk and walks the walk. You can believe him.

[Number23]

100. Are you black?

Otherwise, your opinion on what Hillary or anyone will do for us is about as welcome and wanted as a hole in the head.

Your post is a perfect, glimmering example of the patronizing mess that is unfortunately the cornerstone of much of the engagement of Sanders supporters and minority communities. With emissaries like this, it's no wonder he's struggling so very hard to connect.

I don't understand the African American support for Clinton.

Her neo-liberal wall street based economic policies are just going to make all of the problems worse. Income inequality will get worse, poverty will go up, the middle class will continue to disappear, more money will be spent on wars and the military, the social fabric will continue to fray leading to even more racism against African Americans and other minorities. She will give lip service to racial justice for African American but nothing fundamental will change.

With Bernie we have the possibility for real change - free tuition at public colleges, $15 an hour minimum wage, single payer health care, less income inequalities. Bernie has spoken for Racial Justice in his campaign speeches and has released a detailed policy position paper on racial justice that can be found here:

Bernie talks the talk and walks the walk. You can believe him.

And yet, even in a poll showing Hillary's "plunging" black support, there were more votes for undecided than there were for Sanders. And this was after the poll also noted that his name recognition had gone up 30%. Any ideas why that may be??

[cascadiance]

103. What has he done that has you concerned about supporting or not supporting POC?...

I think that was the question that was being asked? Because if it isn't something about just familiarity with him as a candidate, many of us are failing to see what the real concerns are that POC have with him, other than his own skin color and heritage in the state of Vermont where there are less POC residing.

When he was in Chicago working hard to protest segregation, Hillary Clinton was campaigning for Barry Goldwater who was against the Civil Rights act being passed then, amongst other issues relating to POC then as noted here.

http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2014/06/barry-goldwater-declares-that-the-1964-civil-rights-act-is-a-dire-threat-to-the-liberties-of-african-americans-and-will-creat.html

Though Bernie in his later political career has embraced and worked hard on many other issues that haven't necessarily in each instance addressed specific issues/concerns for POC, I have yet to see anyone show constructively that he's turned his back on them in his career and I seem him work on many issues where he's the leader on things such as private prison reform, etc. that would heavily benefit PC. He's been pretty consistent on his stances on just about all of the issues he's worked on, which is harder for us to see in the history of Hillary Clinton's career which has undergone many changes, and also leaves ambiguous public stances on many issues at so many times too.

For us that see this, we're trying to understand what it is that those complaining about Bernie Sanders are really complaining about, and what they want him to do. If they are asking him to drop everything else and only work on their issues, that is not going to happen. That would only make him less "viable" as a GE candidate, which many say here is important to you all.

[Number23]

105. If you want to consider his dismal support in the AA community as "complaining" that is certainly

your right. But it sure takes gall to come and do that in the AA forum.

What annoys me so much about so many Sanders supporters is that EVERY SINGLE TIME someone questions what Sanders has done for the AA community, the conversation goes back to something he did in 1965 or IMMEDIATELY pivots to being about Hillary.

So congratulations on doing both in your one post. Well done.

[cascadiance]

107. Sorry if that is mischaracterizing statements that don't seem to be very complimentary towards him..

Is that a more acceptable characterization?

I'm trying to not to get bogged down with semantics on either side. My interest is not in denigrating anyone here, but, as I think perhaps other people coming here are, trying to understand what the real concerns about his campaign are?

It seems to be hard for us to have anyone here explain what the real concerns with his campaign are, other than "viability", or other more nebulous comments on things like polling, etc. That's not an explanation, but appears to be rationalizations as to why some here "don't like him". So many of us here are not trying to hurt others. We're trying to stand up for many who have had tough times lately, and very much a big part of that is POC. But it is hard to know how to appeal to them, if they tell us there is something don't like but don't define that.

Many of us try to show the direct contrast of what both candidates were in the past, where the differences were clearer.

But that doesn't mean that he's stopped supporting POC today.

Here's a recent example. Do you feel that we should have more private prisons, or should they be abolished? Do more private prisons help or hurt POC who demographically are a lot bigger percentage of prison population than they are in society, or don't they make a difference?

Bernie's just recently was proposing legislation to stop private prisons as noted here:

http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2015/08/20/3693380/bernie-sanders-private-prisons/

Private prison lobbyists are raising more cash for Hillary Clinton's campaign. Does she stand against them? Probably not, though we don't know, like we don't know on so many other issues where cash has her probably doing things behind the scenes that she doesn't want part of her campaign.

https://theintercept.com/2015/07/23/private-prison-lobbyists-raising-cash-hillary-clinton/%C2%A0%E2%80%A6

This is just one issue. But if you look at issues, can you explain where Bernie is missing the boat and Hillary is working for POC?

[Number23]

111. Bernie's insistence on discussing economic issues when directly asked to discuss issues of race

has not endured him to alot of poc.

His fumblings re: Black Lives Matter have not sat well with alot of poc.

His stance on private prisons is good. And once he actually listened to BLM activists and began to incorporate more of their stances into his platform was a step in the right direction.

And you may not believe that "viability" is that important an issue, but to alot of poc, it's the ONLY thing that matters. Black people didn't even support Obama until many of us believed he was a viable candidate.

Black people understand that our issues are too dire and important to put them in hands of people that we don't know or don't think may be efficient. All of the lofty rhetoric in the world won't mean anything if the person saying it is not able to implement anything. And for alot of blacks, in addition to the fact that Hillary is well known, there is no denying her experience. Many believe she may be more likely to get things done.

For all his years in Congress, Bernie is not well known. For all the screams from his supporters that he is practically a civil rights icon, very few blacks know him. Not ONE black member of Congress or major black politician has endorsed him and to add insult (and bewilderment) to injury, he is now campaigning with Cornell West. He is starting out with a massive deficit in the black community and seems to be doing his hardest to increase it instead of make it smaller. I've never seen anything like it.

[cascadiance]

112. With all due respect, Bernie can't be viable and discuss issues of race ALL of the time...

There are times for him to talk about it, and he HAS talked about these issues too.

But when someone tries to hijack a forum that was to pay credence to topics of social security and basically even deny Bernie the ability to speak at it, let alone talking about issues of race, while calling his supporters racists and "white supremacists", I think you are confused about which individuals were viewed by most Americans as "fumbling things". In my book he had nothing to apologize in those events.

Maybe he needed a little jumpstart to get him to pay attention more and provide more focus on his views supporting POC, which he did after the initial Netroots Nation interruption where activists wanted him to deviate from the forum topic of immigration that he was there speaking on. He'd already hired Simone as his spokeswoman from BLM before the Seattle incident occurred, so it wasn't like he wasn't listening at that point. That was only what they were trying to project on them in their search for getting fame for themselves.

So, if a Republican was shown to you as the only "viable" candidate that was going to win, would you support them because viability is "the ONLY thing that matters"? I'd be surprised if most thinking POC would buy in to that philosophy, that would continue to have the problems they've faced be kept in place for that much longer.

I can accept that POC are more familiar with Hillary Clinton, as most people in America are. It happened that way with Barack Obama as you noted too. But during the campaign things changed as he started to win primaries, etc. and became more known. I believe that Bernie will have the same trajectory, and his trajectory in polls and in fund raising is ahead of where Obama was at this point too. I think it is way too early for us to try and "end" this race, much as it was at this time during 2008 campaign. Debates will help us all understand all of the candidates, and how they want to approach issues on race as well as other issues that affect all of us. Bernie supporters are excited for everyone to discover where the field stands on issues, and for Americans in general to become more familiar with the issues that are very important to solve this time around. This is why we have elections and why we want to solve things that some in the past may have said were unsolvable, but those of us supporting Bernie see a difference the way this campaign is going that gives us hope that we could see a time much like those saw in FDR's time too of the possibility of real change and transformation where everyone can benefit, including POC.

I'm not claiming that Bernie is the equivalent of MLK. I don't know anyone that would try to make that assertion. But he has been consistently supporting of civil rights issues, and I challenge anyone to come up with times where he's noticeably departed from stances like that, unlike Hillary Clinton, who has had differences in her stances over time on these issues. Changing emphasis to economic issues as his primary focus is not the same as CHANGING his views on civil rights issues which he has NOT done. He's trying to do a lot and trying to reach a lot of people, which is absolutely necessary to get a lot of support for viability to work against the big money trying to keep him from being viable.

And it is big money trying to keep him from being viable that is responsible for pulling strings with congress people and others in government to either endorse Hillary now, or not endorse him through threats of campaign money bribes being spent in certain ways, not because some people just don't want to support him. John Lewis certainly looks like he supports Sanders in his marching with him in Selma as shown in this photo, even if he has the good campaign sense not to endorse Sanders when the money gang threatens everyone including Lewis to avoid doing so.



And what makes Cornell West such a bad person for your community? Is it just that he's supported Bernie instead of Hillary and at times as criticized Obama on a number of issues (such as lack of accountability by Wall Street to this administration's DOJ for their crimes, or Obama's mysterious love affair with free trade bills and fast track authority for such, that is so much against the interests of POC and against all of our interests for that matter). There were times when West strongly supported Obama during the 2008 election as I recall, and I think he's said so in his later critiques of Obama too. I think he wants government to work for the interests of POC as well. I'm not seeing how he's not doing so. Cornell West seems to be victimized by targeted criticism from the corporate beholden Democratic Party PTB. If you could shed some light on where Mr. West is criticized in a legitimate fashion, please share them with us.

[Number23]

114. I don't even know why you bothered coming into this forum. I knew probably before you did

that when everything was done, it would all come down to "Bernie's doing and has done everything right and if black folks don't like that it's too bad" with you. It was obvious when you referred to black people's questioning of Sanders as "complaining." You should probably work on being less obvious.

Exactly WHY can't Bernie talk about race issues as much as he talks about Social Security?? I have simply got to hear this.

BLM has had a desperately needed and incredibly positive impact on Bernie's racially tone deaf campaign. He's listened to them. And he should have. And he is a better candidate for having done so.

Oh, and John Lewis is endorsing Hillary.

[kwassa]

115. How many times has this been discussed in the past couple months? A thousand?

Did you miss all that?

Brief sum up:

Bernie screwed up at the beginning of his campaign, subsuming race issues to economic issues. Most of his supporters deny this ever happened. You don't seem to see it, either. I heard him do it on NPR. Black people see racial issues as separate to economic issues, not as a sub-issue to economic issues. It was a graphic example of how out of touch Bernie was with black people's beliefs.

Bernie corrected himself, over time. Some of his supporters, not so much. They quote his life as a civil rights activist 50 years ago. That's a long time ago. Bernie has not been a civil rights activist since then, but has been a civil rights supporter in his votes. This makes him a good guy, but not a civil rights hero, or activist, except in a historical sense. Some of his supporters place him near to MLK.

Cornel West is poison in the black community. This was discussed endlessly, too, as to why. Mostly, Cornel's wild attacks on Obama for years and years, which reek of Cornel's personal jealousy. Bringing Cornel onto Bernie's campaign only hurts Bernie in the eyes of African Americans.

[Gothmog]

88. Sanders is not polling well in the Super Tuesday/SEC primary states

[bowens43]

102. let's see, 5 months to go and no debates yet......

as soon as the people see the two of them on stage together hillary is toast.

[jfern]

104. It's not that simple

Last edited Sun Oct 4, 2015, 12:16 AM - Edit history (1)

And there's a rather low number of debates, some of them scheduled on days no one will watch them like Saturday December 19th.

[Gothmog]

118. Yes we will

Sanders is not polling well with non-white voters and it will be interesting to see if he breaks 15% in Texas (that is the threshold to get any delegates)

[JustAnotherGen]

123. I'm a group host

Did you really come into this group to make that statement?

Sat Oct 3, 2015, 07:27 PM
bowens43
102. let's see, 5 months to go and no debates yet......

as soon as the people see the two of them on stage together hillary is toast.

If you are only posting back here when there's something in it FOR YOU - it looks at best disingenuous.

Here are three threads where there is nothing in it FOR YOU:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118728504

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118728259

http://www.democraticunderground.com/118727575


You obviously only care about what's in it for you - or you would have attempted to engage with us.

I'm not the only active member of this group and certainly not the only group host that is sick and tired of people at DU who only come back here when it benefits them . . .or try and start trouble.

Unless you can show solidarity with the black community all of the time - not just when it is convenient - understand you are getting the side eye.

And before the whine - I'm an O'Malley supporter. So knock it off before it starts.

[elleng]

126. "We have a fundamental disagreement with Bernie Sanders that racism is somehow an offshoot

from economic exploitation when the reality is that race and class in America are inextricably linked to the rise of capitalism in this country," activist Kimberly Ellis told Weigel.

[cantbeserious]

127. Ever More Attacks On Bernie And Supporters - So Sad To See Democrats Suckered By These Tactics

eom

[Bobbie Jo]

132. No, what's sad

Is to see this space totally disrespected and concerns totally disregarded. Again...

The level of utter tone deafness on display here is just stunning.

I may not post here too frequently, but I have been reading here daily for years. I recommend more reading and less pushing. It's extremely off-putting and just goes to demonstrate that not only do some not get it, they're not even interested in trying.


THAT's sad...

[cantbeserious]

133. Some Don't Believe The Manufactured Hype On This Topic

eom

[LanternWaste]

160. I used to pretend the concerns of others I could dismiss and ignore...

I used to pretend the concerns of others, inconvenient to my own biases were merely "manufactured hype" too. It allows us to better maintain a simplistic and trendy bumper-sticker philosophies rather than rational thought and critical evaluation.

[cantbeserious]

162. No Poster Has Yet Articulated How HRC Is Better Than Bernie - Ergo - Manufactured Hype

eom

[JustAnotherGen]

135. Thank you

And you have been a sold contributor back here for a long time.

These people aren't prepared - try know nothing of black Americans and we are only good enough to pay attention to when they want something from us.

It's obvious they are just out for themselves but then get angry when black folks like me say - so am I.

[JustAnotherGen]

134. You think that is sad? Really?

What's sad?

So many can't see that the real reason why black folks can't get ahead is due to 150 years of blacks being paid lower wages.

That's sad.

But America will never admit.

That would be admitting massive amounts of RACISM by a society towards a specific group based on the color of their skin.

What else is sad? The major disparities in quality of healthcare between a black family of four earning 100K a year and a white family. That again is racism. Skin only. Racist America.

What else is sad - the abyssal infant mortality rate in the black community.

But that's just all jolly good fun compared to someone's feelings getting hurt.

Thank you for visiting the Being Black In America Group.

[Lisa D]

136. +1

[JustAnotherGen]

141. Check out his response!

Totally tone deaf.

One note poster! They really think this loser income redistribution idea is going to help black folks when the the full rights of citizenship that white Americans get - have yet to 'trickle' down. Bull sheeeeeeeeeeet!

We can't get reproductive justice and the most basic care in delivery - and this is supposed to correct that?


No way.

[cantbeserious]

137. And Bernie Is The Only Candidate Addressing Income Equality Head On - Yet Many Still Complain

eom

[JustAnotherGen]

138. See - you just did it again.

I'm filthy rich - talk to me about the family of four . . .

[cantbeserious]

139. You Lost This One With The Last Post

eom

[JustAnotherGen]

140. No I didn't

You lost. You are in the African American group.

Our health is JUST as important as YOURS.

Go back and read it again.

Tell me -

What precisely has your BOY done to lower the the infant mortality rate in the black community?

NOTHING!

Because he has been in the Federal Government since I was in college and the rates are dismal . . .

Everywhere except Maryland.

If you don't want rich blacks to vote and support your candidate - just say so.

O'Malley and Clinton want our votes.

[cantbeserious]

142. All One Observes Is Anger And Misplaced Loyalty In HRC - Good Luck With That

eom

[randys1]

143. That didnt take you long, you already know more about the needs

of the African American community than they do, and you already know more about their reality with american politicians than they do.

Fast...

[cantbeserious]

144. If You Truly Believe That HRC Is Your Savior - Please Vote For Her - Just Don't Complain When She

Disappoints one and all.

[randys1]

145. Each time you respond, you prove that you have no clue, at all, what the criticism

is here...

This has nothing to do with Bernie, or very little.

When you figure that out, we will have accomplished something

[cantbeserious]

147. Educate All Of Us - If This Is Not About Cynicism Regarding Bernie - What Then Is It About

eom

[randys1]

149. Your question proves it yet again.

When you are done lecturing other people, in this case Black people, what is good for them, you might hear something.

[Number23]

154. Look, your posts are beyond embarassing. Consider me doing you a favor by asking you to please

not post in this group again. It's for your own good since you are apparently 100% oblivious to how you appear to other people and how cringe inducing your posts are.

[JustAnotherGen]

146. You aren't observant

My loyalty lies with Martin O'Malley.

Obviously you are white - or these things would matter to you. You privilege to be able to dismiss the health and well being of black Americans so easily is showing.

Now - can you please leave the group? You've wandered into foreign hostile enemy territory.

The Angry Black Woman is a white male privilege stereotype to absove yourself of guilt.

[cantbeserious]

148. No One Has Dismissed Anyone Or Anything

eom

[JustAnotherGen]

150. I asked you to leave

You have no comments on black issues - just threw around a a white male stereotype of black women.

Which one?

Angry black woman.

What's next? Sapphire. maybe you are going to call me a race nagger?

You can learn all about them here.



Come back after you've learned something about black Americans and the issues that concern us. Tip: Don't go to a white male elderly politician. The answers aren't there.

[MADem]

157. OMG--I have to read that book! That cover shot is beautiful.

Hey--I'm figuring out that with some crews, There Will Be No Dissent!

I just got accused of "causing a ruckus" in GD P because I posted an article about a certain candidate's LGBT viewpoints during his 2006 Senate campaign...with video~!

[JustAnotherGen]

158. It's excellent

She takes a deep dive into the most common stereotypes (that's just one element of the book) that are used by Americans to try to keep us in line, blame us for America's ills, try to shut us up.

The Angry Black Woman - that's one used quite a bit. Even right here at DU. You can be cast as an ABW just for saying "I disagree" in certain quarters.

[Tarheel_Dem]

151. You've been mighty active here today. Have you visited other topics that aren't about BS?

[1StrongBlackMan]

155. LOL ... Admit it! You lost because Negroes are supposed to be poor ...

and looking for a savior that will only address problems that are secondary to what concern you!

[JustAnotherGen]

159. That might be all he knows

If this has been all he's been able to "observe and absorb" from where he lives, works, plays - he only has this item in the tool box.

Jeb Bush - free stuff. He will refine that. That message will change to "doors to opportunity" after Super Tuesday. Watch. If he is the nominee on their side - if Pataki as a long shot is - they will go directly at the black middle class and higher vote.

Bernie better beware. That's all I'm saying.

[MrScorpio]

152. I support all of the Democratic candidates…

And I reserve the privilege to question all of them as needed.

[1StrongBlackMan]

156. But you, clearly, haven't questioned HRC enough ...

Signed,

white DUers for Bernie.

[randys1]

161. Matsimela Mapfumo or Mark Thompson of Sirius had David Brock on yesterday.

I didnt get to hear it all, but what I did hear was sad.

Caller after caller going on about this and that emails.

The rightwing liars have pushed this nonsense to the point of where we are no longer discussing whether or not it is a story, but how big of a story and how damaging.

No, not a story.

Made up bullshit by rightwingers who stand to profit BILLIONS, maybe even TRILLIONS if they can control the government.

Not complicated

[Dawson Leery]

128. k/r