McChrystal: Time To Bring Back The Draft

[pinboy3niner]

This is now a long thread in GD, and I've taken the opportunity to weigh in.

But we vets don't always have the same viewpoint, and whether we do or not, it's worthwhile to have the views of our DU vets here represented.

As I said, it's already a long thread. But, whether or not you wish to comment, it's worth a read.

And I know I don't even have to tell you guys and women that you can feel free to disagree with me.



Here's the thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002918330#post226

[JustAnotherGen]

1. I am not a vet

Im the daughter of one. And I agree with your statements made in the other thread - Especially regarding people like Romney's sons not going . . .

They lead charmed lives those Romney boys. They never woke up to their father screaming hysterically in the front hall closet. My father was not drafted - he joined voluntarily. He was among the first group of Green Berets.

And that die hard soldier became an arch pacifist after the bombing in Lebanon.

[pinboy3niner]

2. I hear you, sister

A friend of mine was among the first Green Berets--and had his beret personally presenteded to him by JFK.

My friend did his time in Vietnam...and later left his beret at the panel bearing his brother's name at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial...

Love & Peace,
pinboy3niner

[JustAnotherGen]

11. Oh my!

I'll bet you anything he knew my father. Robert F. Kennedy actually suggested him because at the end of his first combat duty (Captain/Tank Battalion) - my dad was wounded for the first time. They sent him home on a ship that never left the harbor for 5 days. My dad sent the A.G. a letter that he was being held against his will by the United States Navy and he wanted an Army Transport toute suite! They dug into his background and his chutzpah and high level of intelligence and decided he would be a good fit for this new elite force!

I would bet you ANYTHING he was in that first 'class' with my dad.

[Downwinder]

3. There is not much I could add to the discussion. You are speaking for me.

Only that Alvin York was drafted and Peace Corps and Vista should get the same credit for service as the military.

[TrollBuster9090]

4. We wouldn't have had a single war since Vietnam if there'd been a lottery draft. Furthermore,...

we wouldn't have had even the Vietnam war if the children of the wealthy weren't able to skip out on it using College Deferments.

And what's worse is, those same chickenhawks who spent Vietnam hiding under their beds in a dorm are now throwing the country into war after war as a way of compensating for their feelings if inadequacy over that.

The fact is that, if you're a plutocrat, there is absolutely no downside anymore for pushing the country into war. You make millions from your stocks in defense contracts, you secure sources of cheap energy, you have U.S. troops killing and dying overseas in defense of corporate interests, and there is no chance that YOUR kids will ever have to fight in those wars. Just a few patriots, and a bunch of poor people who had to pay their way through college by joining the reserves. As long as your kids are safe in Harvard Business school, being groomed to carry on the family's plutocratic legacy, it's all a plus.

I support two things:

1. A lottery draft. NO COLLEGE DEFERMENTS.

2. A law that says that any war or police action that either lasts longer than six months or requires more than 10 000 troops automatically triggers call up of some draftee numbers.

If we had a system like that, odds are a couple of Mitt's sons would have had to put on khaki as far back as 2004.

[pinboy3niner]

6. You're both right and wrong

You're right about those chickenhawks. But if you think a fair draft would ensnare them, you're very wrong. As newfie11 posts below, "The rich will always find a way out."

The priviliged, wealthy elites can buy doctors who will provide medical records proving that THEIR kids are medically unfit to serve. Dare question it and you'll face a battery of the best lawyers in the country.

Even the fairest draft will only be fair for the 99%--hell, probably even much lower than that. The elite won't serve, period. Any notion that a draft would put the elite at risk and prevent or end war is ludicrous. That will never happen. They will see to that.

All a draft would do is provide more cannon fodder for the war machine.

[newfie11]

5. the war machine would love this

The rich will always find a way out. The draft was not equal among all. I certainly hope the draft is never brought back. We are already in nonstop wars and the cost of suffering is massive on both sides. The folks making money off wars could care less.

[pinboy3niner]

7. You got it

It may even be that the toll of multiple deployments on "the force," as top military brass have been speaking out about, is a more effective deterrent to war than some think a draft would be. The Pentagon is reeling now from what they have been tasked to do for so long.

[malthaussen]

8. Rock and a hard place

The points made by the pro-draft side about the alienation of the military from the public and the "out-of-sight, out-of-mind" conditions under which the professional force is laboring are worth considering, though. The best preventative of tyranny is a citizen army. (Sorry about the unintended irony, but that's life)

I think the Pentagon brass are caught between a rock and a hard place. Eternal war provides opportunity for career advancement, but the drain on the troops of multiple deployments has to be effecting the mission. While the brass probably don't care a whole lot about how much suffering is inflicted on the troops, there does come a point of diminishing returns.

If a draft were re-instituted, it would give the whole country a stake in the wars we are fighting, rather than being a messy unpleasantness only for those directly impacted and their loved ones. Insofar as the public can affect foreign policy (more unintended irony, alas), if more people had a stake in the war, then support would plummet fast. To which I can adduce Vietnam as evidence.

This doesn't help the troops in the short run, especially as it would take a lot of lead time for the public at large to get any measure of influence on the decision to go to war. Since Congress long ago cravenly abdicated the responsibility entrusted it in the Constitution, war is more of an administrative detail than a national choice. Instituting a draft would probably lower public support for the troops in the short run, which is all those poor buggers need. In the long run -- idealistically speaking -- a draft would hopefully make it less easy to fight wars requiring deployment of actual people, but it would do nothing for the remote-control drone war that Mr Obama is expanding. But drones are no final solution, because the ancient wisdom still applies: somebody has to walk in and squat on the territory, or there is no end to the war.

-- Mal

[HereSince1628]

9. In that long thread I found a handful or two of thoughtful posts

I suppose in many ways that's a perfect reflection of DU in general.

[pinboy3niner]

10. Hang in there a while, newbie

You've only been here since 1628.

[HereSince1628]

12. Nugs.

[Major Hogwash]

13. It's a fairly good discussion, but I don't think the draft will come back anytime soon.

I joined the Army on this day, July 14th, Bastille Day, in 1975 and several of the men that I served with were drafted in to the Army and opted to stay in after the Vietnam War was over.
Some of the men that had been drafted, and had become noncoms by then in some of the units I was in, were surprised that so many of us were RAs.
But, that was the way they changed the system in the mid-70s.
Since I served alongside both RAs and US Army soldiers, I have no problem with listening to their opinions about a draft.
But, I don't think it will ever come back.