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Sun Mar 18, 2012, 06:42 PM

That fucking tears it. Veterans please respond to my proposal with a thumbs up or down.

Again a DU'er has made a blanket insult to veterans that was alerted on, and let stand by a jury.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=437974

This is not the first time, and I am fucking sick and tired of this horseshit

This would not happen if someone said that Mexican's were dirty, Black's were lazy, Gay's were pedafiles, Middle Easterner's were terrorists.

But blanket insults to veterans are left to stand. I would like a tumbs up or down to take this to the Admins as a group wth those who wish to cosign on the thread.

If we do and the admins let these blankets insults stand I am out of here.

24 replies, 3257 views

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Reply That fucking tears it. Veterans please respond to my proposal with a thumbs up or down. (Original post)
denbot Mar 2012 OP
elleng Mar 2012 #1
edgineered Mar 2012 #2
HillWilliam Mar 2012 #3
Stinky The Clown Mar 2012 #15
HillWilliam Mar 2012 #21
trof Mar 2012 #4
Skittles Mar 2012 #11
MADem Mar 2012 #5
MindMover Mar 2012 #6
lob1 Mar 2012 #7
DiverDave Mar 2012 #8
bluesbassman Mar 2012 #9
Skittles Mar 2012 #10
USArmyParatrooper Mar 2012 #12
MineralMan Mar 2012 #13
USArmyParatrooper Mar 2012 #14
bluesbassman Mar 2012 #20
Stinky The Clown Mar 2012 #16
DevonRex Mar 2012 #17
Bobbie Jo Mar 2012 #18
bluedigger Mar 2012 #19
JustABozoOnThisBus Mar 2012 #22
Kaleko Mar 2012 #23
Major Hogwash Mar 2012 #24

Response to denbot (Original post)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 06:53 PM

1. Bad news. I agree.

Sorry I"m not a 'member' of the group.

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Response to denbot (Original post)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 06:53 PM

2. Of 174 replies to the OP,

one person made the comment you cite. No responses were made on his post. I served 10 years and have 3 honorable discharges; getting off the bus at boot camp in great lakes was more offensive than this in perspective. lighten up!

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Response to denbot (Original post)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 07:06 PM

3. It's sad to say that this sort of thing goes on

all the time. There are many discussions in the LGBT group (of which I'm a co-host) on how blatantly homophobic comments are allowed to stand. Those who aren't (fill in the blank) often don't understand how certain phrases or terms are hurtful and/or offensive to those who are (fill in the blank).

I am also a veteran. I hadn't seen the comment you linked to until I arrived here in this thread. If I had been on the jury I absolutely would have voted to hide. No question at all.

IIRC, the only way admins weigh in is if the TOS box is checked on the initial alert and the comment is hidden. MIRT has its own mechanism (which isn't entirely clear to me) but there is no way to alert MIRT directly. (Ref numerous posts on the hosts forum and H&M.)

Have you opened a post on H&M? I would participate. Bringing the attention of wider-DU to comments that are over the top can make for a teachable moment. That has worked somewhat for the LBGT group.

Just tossing ideas out.

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Response to HillWilliam (Reply #3)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 10:07 PM

15. re: MIRT

Technically, it isn't possible to contact MIRT directly. What *is* possible is to contact a MIRT member and ask them to take it to the MIRT for consideration.

I am a MIRT member (although, beyond the end of my term and subject to be replaced by the Admins at any time).

I'm also a vet, but fail to see what the issue is here. Don't take that to mean I don't agree there's an issue, just that, right now, I don't understand what it is. I am happy to get a PM explaining what the issue is and what you'd like of MIRT.

Next is what MIRT can and can't do.

Any MIRT member can PPR any sub-100 post count member at any time for any legit reason. No need for discussion with other MIRT members although discussion and agreement takes place 99.99% of the time.

MIRT can ban any short term (usually means under 1000 posts, but there's no hard and fast, precise rule) member in the event they have a post hidden in the last 60 minutes and the TOS was checked in the alert.

And that's it. MIRT can *only* deal with short term disruptors.

MIRT has no power to PPR a long term member no matter what they do or say. The member I think is the focus of this thread is a long term member.


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Response to Stinky The Clown (Reply #15)

Mon Mar 19, 2012, 06:14 AM

21. Thanks for the clarification, Stinky

I don't prowl the main forums enough to find malicious intruders. That isn't to say there aren't a couple of posters who annoy me, but annoyance is a long way from either an alert or needing to contact MIRT. I can live with that by skipping over the posters I don't want to read.

The LGBT group seems to be humming along these days. The hosts there occasionally use alerts proactively to bring interesting threads to the attention of other hosts to make sure the conversations stay on-track. Every group I'm sure has its own MO. So long as the system works.

As for me, I'm happy with the jury system. Really over-the-top comments usually are hidden forthwith. (From what I can see, that would be "much more often than not".) From what I can see, things are one helluvalot better than they were on DU2.

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Response to denbot (Original post)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 07:22 PM

4. Take it to admin.

Folks go into the military for different reasons.
Once they're in, they follow orders.
That's how it works, and that's how it has to work.
Unless they think the orders are unconstitutional or morally wrong, they do as told.
And if they DO disobey based on the above criteria they're in for a bad time.
I'd love to see the jury comments.

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Response to trof (Reply #4)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 08:33 PM

11. and all too often

they get judged by people who never even thought about serving

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Response to denbot (Original post)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 07:38 PM

5. I would urge you to consider the source.

There are people in this world who take joy in behaving like ignorant assholes.

There are others in this world who are simpatico, who understand, who can look at the world with a degree of compassion and nuance.

I say blow off the former, and cultivate the latter.

Most people are not ignorant assholes. The thing is, the ignorant assholes do have the potential to ruin our day--if we ALLOW them to so do.

No one--not even an ignorant asshole--can make you feel bad without your permission. Don't give 'em permission.

I don't think the admins will give you any help. They are determined to let us sink or swim by our own devices--I've no objection if you ask, but please don't be disappointed or take it personally if you do not receive.

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Response to denbot (Original post)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 07:49 PM

6. I wasn't asked to be on the panel.....definitely hide it......

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Response to denbot (Original post)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 07:59 PM

7. I'm not a vet and I hated that war, but that was a cheap shot.

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Response to denbot (Original post)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 08:00 PM

8. The guy has his head up his ass

Yeah, its bullshit, but some people are just, well, assholes.

D troop 1/1 cav

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Response to denbot (Original post)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 08:00 PM

9. I feel you anger on that one denbot, but

I can see how a jury might let it pass considering the Iraq war was the subject. Not fair to have double standards I agree, but the jury system is prone to double standards in my experience.

I think this post is probably not the one to tilt with.

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Response to denbot (Original post)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 08:32 PM

10. they're just cowards, denbot

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Response to denbot (Original post)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 08:41 PM

12. Absolutely.

The Jury system is a joke. Maybe one or two out of the six will even make an attempt at impartiality. Aside from being rude and hateful, slamming veterans is NOT part of the Democratic platform, and it's in fact hurtful to the party.

Despite what it claims, Democratic Underground is NOT a big D Democratic website. It's a site that has some Democrats, but also a large number of Socialists, Anarchists and others who frankly would be just as happy to see the Democratic party defeated. They're allowed to advocate for those ends with almost complete impunity. That's all fine and good, but just don't sell yourself as a Democratic forum if that's not really your platform.

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Response to USArmyParatrooper (Reply #12)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 08:55 PM

13. One of Bahrbearian's posts got hidden.

The Drama Queen one.

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Response to MineralMan (Reply #13)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 09:00 PM

14. Well that's something.

I did notice that even something that blatant barely got hidden by one vote. But that's the game here. We're not going to change it so we just have to live with it.

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Response to USArmyParatrooper (Reply #14)

Mon Mar 19, 2012, 01:02 AM

20. I was on that jury.

Find it interesting that the two jurors who voted to leave it alone didn't even comment.

FWIW, I think the whole thread was flame-bait and should have been locked from the start.

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Response to USArmyParatrooper (Reply #12)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 10:17 PM

16. Just a suggestion . . . model the behavior you want to see.

I, personally, think we ought to sign our jury votes and be willing to own them. If you want jurors who will give some actual thought to their vote and then vote impartially, be one yourself. And then sign your vote when you do. Maybe the lazy jurors and the assholes will be shamed into acting more honorably.

Also, when you make an alert, use the space provided to make a clear case advocating for the outcome you want to see. A part of the issue is shitty alerts.


****The word "you" in this post is not directed at you personally.****







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Response to denbot (Original post)

Sun Mar 18, 2012, 11:21 PM

17. 224 MI BN, 98G2LRU here. Take it to Admin.

People like that pretend to be all sweet and anti-war when really they just enjoy being jerks to others who had the guts to put their lives on the line.

That's my opinion, since what earthly purpose does a comment like that serve in the context of that thread? None. It's just an insult out of the blue for no reason.

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Response to denbot (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2012, 12:14 AM

18. Just found this group

Thanks to your post in H&M.

What unbelievable bullshit. I'll leave it at that for now.

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Response to denbot (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2012, 12:49 AM

19. I hope you aren't serious.

You are too good a member of our community to bail over some petty bs like that. I own my service and my reasons for it, and no baseless insult is going to bother me. I always figured my service gave people the right to say whatever stupid thing they wanted to.

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Response to denbot (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2012, 10:48 AM

22. Two thumbs down!

First thumb down: don't hide it. Moronic posts, like cockroaches, are more fun when they're trapped in the light. As far as people who served: our reasons, our motives, our circumstances, they're all over the map. This individual's opinion of anyone's service should not matter one bit.

Second thumb down: You're out of here? I vote "no". In fact, you owe us twenty pushups just for making the suggestion!



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Response to denbot (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2012, 04:28 PM

23. Permit me to re-post here what I said on the thread in question.

I will respectfully delete this post if you think it's out of bounds in your group. I do think it is important to pick our battles carefully, which means identifying the real enemy and only then striking out to crush them with lethal precision.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1002437443#post223

In response to USArmyParatrooper (Reply #217)

Mon Mar 19, 2012, 10:36 AM

Kaleko

223. Your outrage is understandable.


And by 'your' I mean everybody who took offense here. Believe me, I get it. The thing is, our natural rage at being dismissed and degraded as a human being for our military service should be directed where it belongs. This outrage is precious! It is a fire that will burn off unnecessary dross and truly CHANGE things. It is wasted on some anonymous poster on a website who merely voices what millions more already think but won't say out loud. Democratic or Republican political leanings matter little in a case of intolerable unfairness such as this one. Turn the fire of your righteous wrath onto the 'grand chess masters', the war gamers in their mansions on the Hill. These are the bloodsuckers who clearly, obviously think of soldiers as expendable pawns to be used as fodder in the meat grinders of THEIR failed foreign policies.


In case it isn't clear, I'm on your side - an inveterate, life-long, incurable champion of the underdog.


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Response to denbot (Original post)

Mon Mar 19, 2012, 05:32 PM

24. I think that member has issues with his own conscience.

He said he refused to go to Vietnam, so he thinks that all Iraq combat veterans are suckers, in his opinion.

I would talk to the admins because it isn't necessary to say that kind of crap here.
Members of the DU don't have to show respect to veterans, as far as I am concerned.
But, I don't think they should be allowed to openly display disrespect for veterans, either.

Some things are better left unsaid.
I think everyone knows that.

As for the other derogatory comments made about Mexicans, Blacks, gays, and Middle Easterners, those comments are way out of line. They should never be tolerated.

I originally thought that forum hosts were going to act like mods for 90 days and babysit those forums. I thought they had the ability to delete really bad comments. I'm disappointed that so many members still come here to jab sticks in other people's sides just to get a response from them, as if they are striking a blow for freedom or something.

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