HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Topics » Justice & Public Safety » Gun Control & RKBA (Group) » A genuine waste of time.....

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:13 PM

A genuine waste of time...

...encouraging only division and undue media coverage. That's what I call an "assault weapons ban".

The prior ban had no effect on the sale of weapons functionally identical to those named and/or described. When will some politicians learn that the terminology remains undefined? Further attempts to "adjust" the definition only serves to highlight the fact that, aside from the prior definition being wrong, those making the adjustments are either insufficiently experienced with the weapons in question or just grandstanding for attention. Or both??

In the meantime the fire of debate will continue with the flames fed by politicians who are by analogy shoveling coal (or something) on the blaze and the media providing all the oxygen needed.

38 replies, 2870 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 38 replies Author Time Post
Reply A genuine waste of time... (Original post)
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 OP
ileus Dec 2012 #1
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #4
darkangel218 Dec 2012 #32
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #33
SecularMotion Dec 2012 #2
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #3
brindleboxer Dec 2012 #5
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #6
brindleboxer Dec 2012 #7
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #11
brindleboxer Dec 2012 #13
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #15
Glaug-Eldare Dec 2012 #8
Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #9
krispos42 Dec 2012 #17
Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #18
brindleboxer Dec 2012 #19
Starboard Tack Dec 2012 #30
brindleboxer Dec 2012 #31
Bay Boy Jan 2013 #37
Starboard Tack Jan 2013 #38
krispos42 Dec 2012 #26
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #34
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #20
brindleboxer Dec 2012 #21
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #22
ileus Dec 2012 #23
krispos42 Dec 2012 #24
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #25
brindleboxer Dec 2012 #10
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #12
brindleboxer Dec 2012 #14
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #16
bowens43 Dec 2012 #27
discntnt_irny_srcsm Dec 2012 #28
brindleboxer Dec 2012 #29
rl6214 Jan 2013 #35
brindleboxer Jan 2013 #36

Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:23 PM

1. firearms have two enemies...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to ileus (Reply #1)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:32 PM

4. one is rust n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #4)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:12 PM

32. lol nt

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to darkangel218 (Reply #32)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:42 PM

33. Well, all us...

...Neil Young fans know that rust never sleeps.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:27 PM

2. How do you propose restricting the sale of weapons that are able to cause mass carnage?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SecularMotion (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:31 PM

3. Require an NICS check...

...on all sales.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #3)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 01:48 PM

5. I agree

So why doesn't the idea of making NICS accessible to private sellers have more support? I'm guessing that the gun control crowd sees it as counterproductive to their goal of increasing government control over gun sales, though it would be a relatively easy and effective fix.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brindleboxer (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:07 PM

6. I would only accept...

...having the NICS accessible to FFLs and LEOs. As for why support is scarce, I can only infer that such a law won't BAN EVIL LOOKING GUNS and for that reason gathers little attention.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #6)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:13 PM

7. Why would it be bad

for private sellers to have access to NICS? I think right now the prohibition of all private firearm transfers is pretty unlikely, so what would be the downside to allowing, or even requiring, private sellers to do a check? I think you'd have support and compliance from gun owners, most of whom don't want guns ending up in the wrong hands any more than anyone else.

Though you're right, I understand why it doesn't have as much support compared to an AWB. It was a rhetorical question, I guess.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brindleboxer (Reply #7)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:51 PM

11. It's a privacy issue. n/t

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #11)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:12 PM

13. I get that...

but it think it could possibly be done in such a way as to mitigate any privacy concerns. I don't know for sure that it would work, but I tihnk it's worth looking at at least.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brindleboxer (Reply #13)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:18 PM

15. Federal access to the NICS...

...is currently restricted to FFLs and law enforcement. Why change that?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brindleboxer (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:16 PM

8. Anything that might actually work harms the gun control cause.

Dead children are necessary for fundraising -- nothing must be permitted to occur that will stem the nourishing flow of innocent blood. They're very careful about never mentioning the phrase "private sales," focusing instead solely on an imaginary "gun show loophole." Remember, it's gun shows, not private sales! Anyone can go to a gun show and buy an automatic death spewer without a background check, regulate gun shows, ban gun shows... (but don't touch private sales!)

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brindleboxer (Reply #5)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:17 PM

9. You-o-o-o got it. Universal NICS has been advocated here for yrs.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to SecularMotion (Reply #2)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 04:31 PM

17. Ban the sale of all new semi-automatic long guns.

If you're worried about AR-15 or AK-47 type rifles.

Or all semi-automatics, if you want to eliminate magazine-fed handguns as well.


This would leave pump-action, lever-action, bolt-action, and break-action long guns, and revolvers and break-barrel guns.



Of course, there's no reason you can't make a tactical lever-action rifle with an AR-15 handguard, AR-15 detachable magazine, and AR-15 telescoping buttstock. Which would, of course, be only slightly less effective at mass carnage than an AR-15.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to krispos42 (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:30 PM

18. Might be the only decent solution.

Semi-automatics definitely contribute to the problem of mass shootings.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:44 PM

19. The availability of semi-automatics

probably makes mass shooting marginally more deadly. It's unclear as to whether or not a ban on those would actually have any impact on further mass shootings, given how many are already in circulation. Beyond that, you have to ask the question of whether or not the minimal amount of lives that might be saved would be worth such an intrusion into the rights of gun owners.

Given that most gun control advocates do not own guns, and in fact harbor some amount of antipathy towards gun owners, it's a zero-cost proposal to you so I'm sure you think the intrusion is justified. Fortunately, they alone do not determine our national gun policy.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brindleboxer (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:04 PM

30. How many lives saved would be worth it to you?

If it were one of your loved ones' lives, I'm sure your answer would be ONE.
That said, I am not opposed to gun ownership. I have owned guns in the past and may well own some in the future. I do not presently, because they are not conducive to my current lifestyle, living on a boat.

Obviously, a ban on semi-autos would have to include those already in circulation. Barring that, the only viable solution would be to implement the suggestions I put forward here http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=94334

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #30)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:18 PM

31. Yes, I read that thread...

and several of your proposals involve technology that, for a wide variety of reasons that were pointed out, is completely impracticable. Not to mention that allowing local officials to declare "gun free zones" does nothing to deter people inclined towards crime, and is probably unconstitutional.

And yes, if I lost a loved one to a mass shooting, I might want to ban guns. That doesn't mean that that is sound reasoning, or that the emotional reactions of crime victims should determine policy in a country of 300million+. If I had a loved one die of alcohol poisoning I might think that alcohol should be banned, it doesn't make it a good idea.

And your response will likely be that I'm just shooting down any idea for gun control at all. I'm not. The problem is that the ideas that would work, like universal access to NICS, waiting periods on certain classes of weapons, increased mental health reporting to NICS, and others, don't go far enough for the anti-gun crowd, and go too far (which is really any distance) for the NRA crowd.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #30)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 07:31 PM

37. Specious argument...

....how many lives could be saved if we banned backyard swimming pools?
What if were one of your loved ones?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Bay Boy (Reply #37)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 09:31 PM

38. If pools were designed to drown children, then I would support a ban.

Fortunately they are not. Classic false equivalency on your part. Talking of specious...

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Starboard Tack (Reply #18)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:58 PM

26. Manual-action rifles would become "tacticalized" if tactical semi-autos were discontinued.

Expect to see lever-action and slide-action guns that take common pistol magazines, or AR-15 or AK-47 or AK-74 magazines. Expect to see lever-action and pump-action rifles that used AR-15 tactical handguards, to mount lasers and tactical flashlights and strobe lights. Expect to see lever-action and pump-action rifles that used AR-15 telescoping buttstocks. Expect to see lever-action and pump-action rifles that have Picatinney rails on the tops of the receivers to mount reflex red-dot sights or telescopic sights.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to krispos42 (Reply #26)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 10:58 PM

34. What??? No shoulder thingie that goes up???




Have a great New Year.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to krispos42 (Reply #17)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:59 PM

20. does that mean that my ruger .22 would be banned?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 06:28 PM

21. Don't you even think about...

putting a barrel shroud on that "death spewer."

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brindleboxer (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 06:35 PM

22. no, not really.


Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brindleboxer (Reply #21)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 06:42 PM

23. Ha Ha...you said death spewer.

Is there a difference between my 10/22 and my CMMG 22 conversion for my STAG upper.

My 10/22 is much more accurate.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #20)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:50 PM

24. Barring an exception for rimfires... yeah.

So would mine.


Well, not ours, in particular. But new sales would be prohibited.




If there is an exception for rimfires, though, expect to see a lot of tactical 10/22s chambered in .22 WMR, and tactical .22 WMR ammo.


Hornady has one already; it generates 289 ft-pounds of energy from a rifle. That's well into 9mm Luger territory.

http://www.hornady.com/store/22-WMR-45gr-Critical-Defense/

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to krispos42 (Reply #24)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:53 PM

25. so then, mine would be "grandfathered" in? *whew*

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:22 PM

10. Well, at least

people won't be running around with pistol grips on their 10/22s.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brindleboxer (Reply #10)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 02:52 PM

12. What did pistol grips...

...ever do to you?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Reply #12)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:16 PM

14. I think...

I messed up a screwdriver pretty bad trying to remove one once. Also they do nothing to increase the effectiveness of my rifles as mass murder weapons, which we all know is their only purpose.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brindleboxer (Reply #14)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 03:20 PM

16. :opens coat:

Perhaps I can interest you in one of these black market bayonet lugs?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to discntnt_irny_srcsm (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 07:59 PM

27. We need bigger flames

no civilized nation can be a free nation with armed citizens walking the streets. We need to end this shit right now. We need a totla ban on the possession and sales of ammunition and fire arms. Ammunition for the quick fix and firearms for the long term.

We need laws with teeth, we need mandatory jail time for any and all violators.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bowens43 (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:33 PM

28. You have a great New Year's friend

We differ in our opinions but, I trust we wish well to all our fellow humans.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to bowens43 (Reply #27)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 08:50 PM

29. You keep posting this...

same basic idea. Given that it's a total fantasy, do you have any other more practical ideas?

And a separate question: Would you support a federal law making it a felony to drive a car after consuming any amount of alcohol? Just curious. It seems that the same reasoning that would support a gun ban, or at least an AWB, would support a measure like this. If not, why not?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to brindleboxer (Reply #29)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:22 AM

35. I could go for that

 

I don't drink and I think getting behind the wheel of a car after having a single drink should be a felony and mandatory ten years in jail.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rl6214 (Reply #35)

Tue Jan 1, 2013, 12:34 AM

36. And that's fine...

you're entitled to feel that way. But politically it's a completely untenable position to take, because it would be highly intrusive into what is a cherished cultural practice for a lot of people, including liberals. It's also responsible for way more deaths than the availability of high capacity magazines and semi automatic rifles. The ownerships of those things just happens to be a cultural practice that most on the left have no use for, so they see no reason not to stomp all over it.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread