A genuine waste of time...

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

...encouraging only division and undue media coverage. That's what I call an "assault weapons ban".

The prior ban had no effect on the sale of weapons functionally identical to those named and/or described. When will some politicians learn that the terminology remains undefined? Further attempts to "adjust" the definition only serves to highlight the fact that, aside from the prior definition being wrong, those making the adjustments are either insufficiently experienced with the weapons in question or just grandstanding for attention. Or both??

In the meantime the fire of debate will continue with the flames fed by politicians who are by analogy shoveling coal (or something) on the blaze and the media providing all the oxygen needed.

[ileus]

1. firearms have two enemies...

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

4. one is rust n/t

[darkangel218]

32. lol nt

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

33. Well, all us...

...Neil Young fans know that rust never sleeps.

[SecularMotion]

2. How do you propose restricting the sale of weapons that are able to cause mass carnage?

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

3. Require an NICS check...

...on all sales.

[brindleboxer]

5. I agree

So why doesn't the idea of making NICS accessible to private sellers have more support? I'm guessing that the gun control crowd sees it as counterproductive to their goal of increasing government control over gun sales, though it would be a relatively easy and effective fix.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

6. I would only accept...

...having the NICS accessible to FFLs and LEOs. As for why support is scarce, I can only infer that such a law won't BAN EVIL LOOKING GUNS and for that reason gathers little attention.

[brindleboxer]

7. Why would it be bad

for private sellers to have access to NICS? I think right now the prohibition of all private firearm transfers is pretty unlikely, so what would be the downside to allowing, or even requiring, private sellers to do a check? I think you'd have support and compliance from gun owners, most of whom don't want guns ending up in the wrong hands any more than anyone else.

Though you're right, I understand why it doesn't have as much support compared to an AWB. It was a rhetorical question, I guess.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

11. It's a privacy issue. n/t

[brindleboxer]

13. I get that...

but it think it could possibly be done in such a way as to mitigate any privacy concerns. I don't know for sure that it would work, but I tihnk it's worth looking at at least.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

15. Federal access to the NICS...

...is currently restricted to FFLs and law enforcement. Why change that?

[Glaug-Eldare]

8. Anything that might actually work harms the gun control cause.

Dead children are necessary for fundraising -- nothing must be permitted to occur that will stem the nourishing flow of innocent blood. They're very careful about never mentioning the phrase "private sales," focusing instead solely on an imaginary "gun show loophole." Remember, it's gun shows, not private sales! Anyone can go to a gun show and buy an automatic death spewer without a background check, regulate gun shows, ban gun shows... (but don't touch private sales!)

[Eleanors38]

9. You-o-o-o got it. Universal NICS has been advocated here for yrs.

[krispos42]

17. Ban the sale of all new semi-automatic long guns.

If you're worried about AR-15 or AK-47 type rifles.

Or all semi-automatics, if you want to eliminate magazine-fed handguns as well.


This would leave pump-action, lever-action, bolt-action, and break-action long guns, and revolvers and break-barrel guns.



Of course, there's no reason you can't make a tactical lever-action rifle with an AR-15 handguard, AR-15 detachable magazine, and AR-15 telescoping buttstock. Which would, of course, be only slightly less effective at mass carnage than an AR-15.

[Starboard Tack]

18. Might be the only decent solution.

Semi-automatics definitely contribute to the problem of mass shootings.

[brindleboxer]

19. The availability of semi-automatics

probably makes mass shooting marginally more deadly. It's unclear as to whether or not a ban on those would actually have any impact on further mass shootings, given how many are already in circulation. Beyond that, you have to ask the question of whether or not the minimal amount of lives that might be saved would be worth such an intrusion into the rights of gun owners.

Given that most gun control advocates do not own guns, and in fact harbor some amount of antipathy towards gun owners, it's a zero-cost proposal to you so I'm sure you think the intrusion is justified. Fortunately, they alone do not determine our national gun policy.

[Starboard Tack]

30. How many lives saved would be worth it to you?

If it were one of your loved ones' lives, I'm sure your answer would be ONE.
That said, I am not opposed to gun ownership. I have owned guns in the past and may well own some in the future. I do not presently, because they are not conducive to my current lifestyle, living on a boat.

Obviously, a ban on semi-autos would have to include those already in circulation. Barring that, the only viable solution would be to implement the suggestions I put forward here http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=94334

[brindleboxer]

31. Yes, I read that thread...

and several of your proposals involve technology that, for a wide variety of reasons that were pointed out, is completely impracticable. Not to mention that allowing local officials to declare "gun free zones" does nothing to deter people inclined towards crime, and is probably unconstitutional.

And yes, if I lost a loved one to a mass shooting, I might want to ban guns. That doesn't mean that that is sound reasoning, or that the emotional reactions of crime victims should determine policy in a country of 300million+. If I had a loved one die of alcohol poisoning I might think that alcohol should be banned, it doesn't make it a good idea.

And your response will likely be that I'm just shooting down any idea for gun control at all. I'm not. The problem is that the ideas that would work, like universal access to NICS, waiting periods on certain classes of weapons, increased mental health reporting to NICS, and others, don't go far enough for the anti-gun crowd, and go too far (which is really any distance) for the NRA crowd.

[Bay Boy]

37. Specious argument...

....how many lives could be saved if we banned backyard swimming pools?
What if were one of your loved ones?

[Starboard Tack]

38. If pools were designed to drown children, then I would support a ban.

Fortunately they are not. Classic false equivalency on your part. Talking of specious...

[krispos42]

26. Manual-action rifles would become "tacticalized" if tactical semi-autos were discontinued.

Expect to see lever-action and slide-action guns that take common pistol magazines, or AR-15 or AK-47 or AK-74 magazines. Expect to see lever-action and pump-action rifles that used AR-15 tactical handguards, to mount lasers and tactical flashlights and strobe lights. Expect to see lever-action and pump-action rifles that used AR-15 telescoping buttstocks. Expect to see lever-action and pump-action rifles that have Picatinney rails on the tops of the receivers to mount reflex red-dot sights or telescopic sights.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

34. What??? No shoulder thingie that goes up???

Have a great New Year.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

20. does that mean that my ruger .22 would be banned?

[brindleboxer]

21. Don't you even think about...

putting a barrel shroud on that "death spewer."

[Tuesday Afternoon]

22. no, not really.

[ileus]

23. Ha Ha...you said death spewer.

Is there a difference between my 10/22 and my CMMG 22 conversion for my STAG upper.

My 10/22 is much more accurate.

[krispos42]

24. Barring an exception for rimfires... yeah.

So would mine.


Well, not ours, in particular. But new sales would be prohibited.




If there is an exception for rimfires, though, expect to see a lot of tactical 10/22s chambered in .22 WMR, and tactical .22 WMR ammo.


Hornady has one already; it generates 289 ft-pounds of energy from a rifle. That's well into 9mm Luger territory.

http://www.hornady.com/store/22-WMR-45gr-Critical-Defense/

[Tuesday Afternoon]

25. so then, mine would be "grandfathered" in? *whew*

[brindleboxer]

10. Well, at least

people won't be running around with pistol grips on their 10/22s.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

12. What did pistol grips...

...ever do to you?

[brindleboxer]

14. I think...

I messed up a screwdriver pretty bad trying to remove one once. Also they do nothing to increase the effectiveness of my rifles as mass murder weapons, which we all know is their only purpose.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

16. :opens coat:

Perhaps I can interest you in one of these black market bayonet lugs?

[bowens43]

27. We need bigger flames

no civilized nation can be a free nation with armed citizens walking the streets. We need to end this shit right now. We need a totla ban on the possession and sales of ammunition and fire arms. Ammunition for the quick fix and firearms for the long term.

We need laws with teeth, we need mandatory jail time for any and all violators.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

28. You have a great New Year's friend

We differ in our opinions but, I trust we wish well to all our fellow humans.

[brindleboxer]

29. You keep posting this...

same basic idea. Given that it's a total fantasy, do you have any other more practical ideas?

And a separate question: Would you support a federal law making it a felony to drive a car after consuming any amount of alcohol? Just curious. It seems that the same reasoning that would support a gun ban, or at least an AWB, would support a measure like this. If not, why not?

[rl6214]

35. I could go for that

I don't drink and I think getting behind the wheel of a car after having a single drink should be a felony and mandatory ten years in jail.

[brindleboxer]

36. And that's fine...

you're entitled to feel that way. But politically it's a completely untenable position to take, because it would be highly intrusive into what is a cherished cultural practice for a lot of people, including liberals. It's also responsible for way more deaths than the availability of high capacity magazines and semi automatic rifles. The ownerships of those things just happens to be a cultural practice that most on the left have no use for, so they see no reason not to stomp all over it.