Just looking for input.

"For the Children!"
"What do you need that for"
"It's what European countries do"

Oneshooter
Armed and Livin in Texas

I guess that's how it goes...

haha

I suggest reading the Community Standards and Terms of Service.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=termsofservice

For a while both terms were verbotten.

Now you just have to convince 4 random DU'ers.

...how bad the state of civility is in this forum.

I've been on 61 juries and have only thought the jury got it wrong 2 times. That's pretty good IMHO. I like the new system

Thanks

That's a good one.

Another piece of work from antis, usually with sarcasm thingy: Standing in line at Chuck E Cheez is so dangerous, one needs to pack a gun or two.


You watch, some gun cultist will come along and say that the "overwhelming majority" of those with a permit are "responsible." Actually, that is not true -- take Zimmerman as one example, he's walking around with a gun thinking he is responsible, then he sees an unarmed Black kid (you know they scary people) and he murders him for no reason other than he can. Or howsabout the dad who leaves his toter out for his 3 year old son to shoot himself. Or the yahoo who serves as a role model for impressionable kids by struting around with his lethal fashion accessory. Or the fool who has his guns stolen to be used in crime. Or another fool who cares more about assuaging his poor pitiful fears, and not society. Gun cultists are not "responsible," despite what they tell themselves because they fear losing their access to guns.

Finally, I will guarantee that the vast majority of society that doesn't need to carry a gun to venture out of their compound are far less likely to be irresponsible with a gun -- mainly because they take the responsible approach and leave the friggin things at home or on the shelves at gun stores.

Again, they will tell you the Zimmermans don't count. But they - just like Zimmerman - claim to be responsible right up until they aren't. And then when they become irresponsible, they'll claim they don't count.

Again, the 90+% of society who would never think of toting a gun in public, are clearly more responsible with respect to guns than those selfish gun cultists who won't leave home without a gun or two, or who encourage others to do so.

Hoyt,

In a lot of areas, people get concealed carry permits not so much because they plan to carry every day, or even regularly, but because occasionally they go places where police are twenty minutes away. Not everyone lives in the burbs.

I come from an extremely red area of the south, with a ton of guns and a ton of cc permits. In my entire life, I can only think of a single person who didn't work in the firearms industry (for some reason, every gun shop employee seems to carry) who carried on an every day basis. I would suggest that you might be overestimating the number of people who can't go to the bathroom without a handgun.

Especially with things like ratios and proportions...

Happy to point that out...

in Florida.

Currently 1,033,849 people have valid Florida concealed weapons permits in our nation and 909,260 are held by Florida residents. Since the program began in October 1987 a total of 2,372,788 permits have been issued yet only 168 have been revoked for a crime involving the use of a firearm after the license was issued.

(http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/news/reports.html
http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/stats/cw_active.pdf)

From what I understand of the shooting, I feel Zimmerman murdered Martin. However I do support our system of justice and believe that it is superior to trial by the media. Zimmerman will have his day in court and a jury will consider all the evidence and determine his guilt or innocence.

I realize that you are on a mission to ban legal concealed carry in our nation which is fine with me but somewhat like Don Quixote tilting against windmills. I often wonder why you never mention improving and better enforcing laws to stop violent criminals from carrying concealed handguns.

in the US different than Europe 90 years ago? Other than technology and population how is today's society that much different than back then?

....typing away on the computer, watching TV, having a cold beer from the fridge, while adjusting the lighting in the room. LOL.

Good grief.....are you seriously suggesting that today's gun is no different from then?

Oh remind.......






.

handguns are not. Other than materials, some mechanical innovations, and manufacturing processes, not really. You missed the point.

You say ' Other than materials, some mechanical innovations, and manufacturing processes, not really.'

That's all? Gosh.....I think you made my point.

because I thought you were talking about basic function, firing rates, power etc. Besides, many of the same designs and models are still used. IIRC, the Walter PPK has been in continuous production since the 1930s. Then there is the 1911.............. or any revolver.

...shooting a bullet designed in 1904...

9mm designed 1901
.22LR designed 1887
.38 Special designed 1898



Such thoroughly modern ammunition...

The joys of mature technology.

were related to manufacturing processes. Guns can be produced quicker and cheaper than they were 100 years ago, but the practical advantages are negligible. A Mauser-Oberndorf sporter from 1910 will still shoot the tits off a boar at 500 yards.

"all gun owners must be required to join the militia, like the constitution says nt"
"all gun owners should be required to join the militia, as the constitution says nt"
"gun owners should be required to join the militia - "A well regulated militia being necessary..." nt"
"all gun owners must be required to join the militia, like the constitution says nt"
"are you in the militia as required by the second amendment? nt"
"you only have a right to a gun if you're in the militia per 2nd amendment nt"
"if you're in the militia you have the right to bear arms nt"


"fear of a black president nt"
"gun sales soar as first BLACK president is sworn in - gee wonder who's rushing the gun stores? nt"
" having a black president has way jackkked up gun sales. hmm wonder why? nt"
"fear of a black president + right wing media hysteria egging things on nt"
"racist gun wingnuts and fear of a black president - great for business eh gun shops? nt"
"gun whackos run amok using fear of a black president nt"
" fear of a black president run amok nt"
"fear of a black president by a group which is full of racists lol nt"
"lol sales are way up amongst the fear of a black president crowd...WAY up amongst racists nt"
"fear of a black president is doing wonders for the gun industry nt"
"did they tell you a BLACK man is now president n u should run out n buy guns? nt"
"fear of black president - go out and buy lots more guns nt"
"fear of a black president is swelling your ranks for the most part imo nt"
"driven by fear of a black president, gun sales have soared in the USA nt"


"the toddler was just excercising his 2nd amendment rights IF he was in the militia nt"
"nuclear weapons are "arms". every 6 year old should have some nt"
"should be legal for 5 yr olds to carry at day care centers, after all, the constitution"
"constitutution does not prohibit 5 yr olds from owning guns. free guns for all apt. kids nt"
"guns for everyone, serial killers, 5 years olds, nut cases - constitutional rights ya know nt"
"children have a right to own and shoot guns anytime they wish. no bidg deal really nt"
"students have a constitutional right to carry guns at school...there is no age listed in the"
"all kids should be allowed to carry to school - 2nd amendment does NOT probhibit this nt"
"kids at elementary school should be allowed to carry guns, 2nd amnd. doesnt say adults only nt"
"yes the 2nd amendment allows 6 year olds to take guns to school so lets allow that too nt"
"2nd amendment does not prohibit gun ownership by 8 year olds anywhere they go nt"

"crazies n nuts have a constitutional right to own and use guns too nt"
" legalize al weapons - convicted felons have a constitutional right to guns ya know nt"
"parolees, probationers, nuts, serial killers - everyone has the right to own guns . "
" the constitution does NOT bar serial killers from owning guns...or 4 year olds either nt"
"2nd amendment does NOT prohibit guns on airplanes or in the hands of criminals nt"
"2nd amendment does NOT prohibit felons or 5 year olds from owning guns nt"
"criminals have a constitutional right to carry guns on airplanes - not prevented by 2nd amendment nt"
"terrorists have a right to carry guns on planes, not prohibited by 2nd amendment. nt"
"terrorists have a 2nd amnd. right to carry guns on planes - not prohibited ya know nt"
"terroristsRKBA rights are denied when they cannot open carry on airliners nt"
"terrorists & serial killers have 2nd amendment rights too ya know. nt"
"prohibiting guns on airplanes and in schools = anti-RKBA bigotry right? nt"
"unlimited protection = terrorist RKBA rights to take guns on airplanes nt"
"the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed for any reason at all ever lol nt"

"no righteous killing to get off on in this one? nt"
"let all those gangbangers shoot a bunch of kids - its their righteous killing rights nt"
"so will the resident gun lovers call this another "righteous killing"? stay tuned ..... nt"
"is this another "righteous killing" for the gun crowd to celebrate? nt"
" "another righteous shoot" ..... jesus loves u anyway nt"
"another "righteous killing" for sure - after all that's what guns are FOR nt"
"oh this one is not righteous enough for u lololol. nt"
"the righteous killings are wonderful if a gun is used crowd disagree with you nt"
"another righteous killing in gun land...oh wait, the kid didnt die....yet nt"

...is that all you have???

whose idiotic one-liners were worthy of collecting.

..."they immediately get attacked by an email tree of NRA types."

Every pistol is a Glock. Every long gun an AK47.

Because they're scary.

I need an AK and at least 2 Glocks.

any old ak clone for a plinker will do...

...would prefer the G23.

I heard the Bulgarian SA93s were reliable, accurate, tough and ugly.

which makes accurate target shooting for me more difficult as I have small hands. I also find them somewhat ugly when compared to a 1911 Colt .45 pistol. However I will admit that they are reliable, easy to clean and accurate.

I am primarily a "wheel gunner" as I prefer revolvers for casual target shooting and self defense. However mastering the double action trigger pull of a revolver is far more difficult than mastering a Glock. The Glock comes from the factory with a 5 lb trigger pull while the double action trigger pull of a S&W revolver may run 12 pounds.

It's also easy to change the trigger pull weight of a Glock to make it lighter or heavier as a Glock has a drop in trigger system that only takes minutes to replace and is reliable. It is more complicated to improve a S&W revolver trigger and often requires a good gun smith if you wish to end up with a reliable firearm.

At this time I have no real reason to own an assault style rifle but I may decide to buy a rifle similar to the AR-15 in the future if I move to a more rural area. Like the Glock they are easy to modify to fit the needs of the owner.

..."...the sickness that the gun pushers promote in our society."

..."The real reality is this nation is awash in hand guns."

Not just the apparent reality mind you.

Cop killer bullets
Registration will reduce crime
Bullet fingerprinting will reduce crime
loophole

now that "unbiased" DU juries allow slurs from pro-restriction members.

I wonder if posts containing the descriptor "hoplophobe" would be hidden or allowed to remain?

Hmmmm.........

Hint: Take a bench trial.

Not so as far as I know.

"untraceable plastic guns"

...that goes up..."



Get's me every time.

"...nuclear capability, and the 2nd Amendment guarantees it."

...this needed inclusion:

Guns kill......unless of course you buy one to 'defend' yourself and the guns don't kill: people do.

Interesting. Kind of an oxymoron but interesting.

Kind of a memorial to the idea "media based legislation". What ever made the news on Sunday night, is proposed to be made illegal on Monday.


...got a barrel that's blue and cold...

bullet-clip-magazine-semi-automatic-assault-bullet-hose-nobody-needs, spraying-fire-from-the-hip-NRA-Republican-gun-nut-murder-fantasy-blood-in-the-streets-common-sense-gun-control-won't-somebody-think-of-the-children?"

...you fit the "children" in there.

Plastic guns, the shoulder thing that goes up and heat seeking bullets

"prancing around with their guns hanging out"

and

?w=397&h=666

and

This is just such a gem.

The DEATH MERCHANTS!!!! Why can't we stop them.


The evil NRA, they block all the good sensible gun laws, that protect the children
and kittens, from doushebag gunslingers.

To misquote the character played by Eamonn Walker 'I prefer it my way, Merchant of Death.'

"shell casings."

"laissez-faire gun ownership"

Thank you all for your contributions!

"...Zimmermans waiting for the 'perfect storm.'"

Such air filled mental hors d'oeuvres!

...is today's new time waste.

cheers

referring to concealed carry

...formal!

A jumbo shrimp if ever I heard one.

Makes some valid points in other areas, overall...........ironic or just hypocritical?
http://www.nyconsulate.prchina.org/eng/xw/t935226.htm

...was a crime!

Really now? So what is a .338 Lapua? An extry special high powered rifle?

Another favorite of mine is the whole "Gun as a penis" line of thinking. Really? I urinate out of my penis, I have a gun for self protection. I fail to see any connection.

These are terms whose significance is lost on most of the public. It has been my experience that any general details of ballistics are held as some mix of boring and complex. Specific details of works authored by experts such as Dr. Roberts for example: < http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Roberts.pdf > among others, are viewed the same way with somewhat gruesome overtones. The idea that scientific means exist to design and evaluate the incapacitating effects of a weapon system is disgusting and contrary to the beliefs of many in the anti-gun camp.

IMHO:
- "High powered assault rifle" has origins similar to "double secret probation". A high powered rifle is a "bad" thing. An assault rifle is a "bad" thing. Form a conjunction of those terms and the object described has to be a "worse" thing.
- Often, the worst inaccuracies are perpetrated when those credentialed, charismatic and popular writers and speakers publicize their emotion based opinions.

It is an odd mixture of my own feelings to view these anti-gun pundits with anger, sympathy and pity; anger for trying to teach others based on their emotional prejudices, sympathy for their ideological goals and pity for the knowledge of their rather certain self-frustration of their cause.

for words or phrases used by the 2A side.

I suggest that Push button words for either side be avoided in order to further discussion, out of respect for both sides.

I know that we have tried to turn it all around and embrace these words as terms of endearment but, it confuses the rest of DU and I think it keeps other DUers from participating in this group. They don't understand and are afraid of being misunderstood.

It is not helping us to obtain our goal of electing Democrats.

...to me.

...how the Talking Points of the gun-religionists are so coordinated."



Oh... P.S....

Another prize bit anti terminology.

...fits well with a quote I just found:

"The most successful tyranny is not the one that uses force to assure uniformity but the one that removes the awareness of other possibilities, that makes it seem inconceivable that other ways are viable, that removes the sense that there is an outside." - Allan Bloom

...we have: "Delicate Flowers..."

Why how pleasant! Must be the Old Spice.

"Gun porn"

..."A Gun in the Home Actually Makes You Less Safe"

Of course so does a bathtub, you may hit your head and drown.

...well you know.

"Guns are safer than soft feathers"

"...too scared to leave the house..."

A blast from the past.

..."Hidden Criminal"

really!

Guns are manufactured for only one reason and that is to kill

BTW, welcome

Just thought DU needed to know.

...my index finger's commitment to exercise, as of 1 October. I think of trashing what I don't want to read any more of as kind of pruning the roses.

...I see a uniquely qualified claim:

Yeah; right!

The pro-control group offers: "Pro-killing machiners"

Just wondering.

1) Assault weapon is a pejorative, and technically inaccurate as used by journalists and lawmakers. Assault weapon = full auto capable (machine gun). Ignorance and deception, rather than education and information, result.

It's also annoying to use Nazi diction, from which assault weapon/assault rifle is derived: "Sturm gewehr"

I object to the Nazi mindset, vocabulary (legitimate sporting purpose, master race, sub-humans, useless eaters, etc.), and contempt for human freedom. And that is why I am personally very particularly jealous of OUR Bill of Rights.

Simply, it's the Goebbels big lie technique whereby gun control people subvert the meaning of words: by naming semi automatic rifles by the pejorative "assault weapon". This is intended to stifle debate, to confuse and prejudice readership/listenership.

Ultimately, it won't matter WHAT technology is on the chopping block. In our grandfather's time, it was full auto. In our time, it's semi automatics. At this rate, our grandchildren will be lucky to argue over whether or not they can keep muskets at home.

Think of the divide and conquer strategy which stripped Englishmen of their guns- it took several years, and several bites, but that aspect of English freedom is nearly extinct.

Not here, and not on my watch. My grandson will be free.

Many orators and writers have said this much better than I ever could.

On the negative side:
-Adolf Hitler: "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms."
-Mao Tse Tung: "All political power comes from the barrel of a gun. The communist party must command all the guns, that way, no guns can ever be used to command the party."

On the positive side:
-The Dalai Lama: "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."
-Professor Joyce Lee Malcolm: "The Second Amendment was meant to accomplish two distinct goals…First, it was meant to guarantee the individual’s right to have arms for self-defense and self-preservation. These privately owned arms were meant to serve a larger purpose as well…and it is the coupling of these two objectives that has caused the most confusion. The customary American militia necessitated an armed public…the militia (being)…the body of the people. The argument that today’s National Guardsmen, members of a select militia, would constitute the only persons entitled to keep and bear arms has no historical foundation."
-Daniel Webster: "Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority…the Constitution was made to guard against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
-Patrick Henry: "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun."
-Thomas Jefferson: "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms."
-George Mason: "To disarm the people is the most effectual way to enslave them."
-Thomas Aquinas: "Without doubt one is allowed to resist against the unjust aggressor to one’s life, one’s goods or one’s physical integrity; sometimes, even ’til the aggressor’s death."
-Augustine of Hippo: "Though defensive violence will always be ‘a sad necessity’ in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men."
-"But now whoever has a purse or a bag, must take it and whoever does not have a sword must sell his cloak and buy one." - Luke 22:36

Not on anyone's watch. It's not happening. I'm quite sure that there are at least 600,000 - 700,000 well trained warriors in this country. These folks will not give up. Many have arms and some don't. When I think about those unarmed warriors I remember the words of CSM Plumley "Sir, if the time comes I need one, there'll be plenty lying on the ground."

225 years ago today, letters that became known as the Federalist Papers began appearing in newspapers.

There's a pro-control slogan if ever I heard one.

from the anti-GUN crowd fresh off GD

"The gun gang doesn't tolerate moderates. I consider them basically just a variety of teabagger."

Here I thought they were inanimate.

Go figure.

Always, every time you leave the house! Don't go to the range to practice shooting. Don't take it hunting.

"Gun fucks and white males crap out. Coincidence?" this poster was talking about the NRA spending 17 million backing repukes. Gun Fucks LOL

Yeah! Whataguy!

There are bridges could be painted with one stroke of the brush he uses.

and I quote: "This whole fad of carrying concealed weapons appears to appeal mainly to old white guys who think they are targets of roaming bands of armed thugs." A fad LOL

...those folks that want a fighting chance are just stupid because they are not thug targets based on having more time working to accumulate money and by virtue of their years may be less likely to escape or fight back. Thugs are really after young folks that are still in school or just starting their professional careers. After all those 20 - 30 year-old folks are attractive and they are the ones you always see getting robbed or flying their own private planes with pockets full of cash on TV.

This malcolm is only 32 inches. I hate to see one of those deadly "1000-yard scopes".

...a gun or two."

..."strapping on" rather than "toting" has that ring to it that pro-control really likes.

Borderline (if not outright) homophobic, edging close to "pansies" and similar terms.

Sounds like a slur a high school P.E. teacher would use to embarrass a less-physically-inclined member of the gym class. Implying, of course, that the subject was "one of those".

I'm surprised it's constantly allowed to stand on a progressive board and without protest from those who would otherwise call it out were it used against a different group than pro-2A folk.

This would be one of those "one size fits many" type insults because it's insulting to different groups for different reasons but some groups are acceptable as targets. Hypocrisy?

YMMV and all that. I wonder if it was determined that most fill in the blank (some group), were Republicans, would it be acceptable to insult them? (By group I mean truck drivers, iMAC owners, amateur astronomers, Chicken McNugget lovers... whatever.)

I'm often tempted to see their "delicate flower" and raise them a "precious snowflake."

assault weapon, there would be nothing left"

... "get these weapons off our streets," in re AR-style rifles.

They're not on the streets. They're at the range, in the field, and in people's homes. CCW-ers don't carry them. Gangbangers don't use them. You might make a case for the DC sniper's weapon being "on the street," but only just.

...that was in this reply: http://www.democraticunderground.com/11729858#post31



This probably the most often miused term of all.

Seems to imply that there were no wars prior to the invention of the AK47. Like bolt-action rifles aren't weapons of war. Or revolvers. Or even muskets for that matter.

That's one of the newer ones.

Gun cuddler, gun coddler, ....the list is growing...

I am not now and never have been a member of the NRA. I've never donated to them, never read their magazine, never taken one of their classes. I don't know much about them, and I could not care less.

But if I post ANYTHING about a Constitutional right to responsibly own and, if I choose, carry a gun I am instantly accused of "spewing NRA talking points."

It would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic.

...a lie will do nicely.

meant to have a chilling effect against its target. Issued in the hope that the 2A defender won't want to be associated, however dishonestly, with a conservative group, and just shut up.

I dare say most of the people using it don't even know what the NRA's talking points are. They just heard someone else use the term and jumped on the slur bandwagon. Sad.

...the use of slurs and ad hominem attacks is just an admission to having little or nothing of substance to offer in a debate.

Calling facts NRA talking points is a tactic used by gun control advocates to protect their own propaganda about firearms.

Propaganda is used successfully by both the NRA and he gun control groups. The NRA is wrong when it suggests that Obama wants to ban and confiscate all firearms and the gun control advocates are wrong when they declare there is no legitimate use for an AR-15 and they are only "weapons of mass destruction."

I'd have to agree. They are the face of the extremist NRA and the extremist Brady/VPC groups.

I just like this picture: