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Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:40 PM

What I've Seen on Facebook (Dial Up Warning)

Last edited Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:17 PM - Edit history (1)

This is a sampling of both sides of the issue that I've seen on my FB news feed over the past week and a half. I've tried to be balanced. I'd say in terms of people I know, I've seen posts about 2-1 in what I'll call (for lack of a better term ) the pro-Gun view (arm teachers, arm principals, guns-don't-kill-people-do). In terms of my political pages, it's been about 100-1 anti-Gun.



































27 replies, 2879 views

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Arrow 27 replies Author Time Post
Reply What I've Seen on Facebook (Dial Up Warning) (Original post)
OmahaBlueDog Dec 2012 OP
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #1
Warren Stupidity Dec 2012 #7
Scuba Dec 2012 #2
OmahaBlueDog Dec 2012 #3
Scuba Dec 2012 #5
gejohnston Dec 2012 #6
Shadowflash Dec 2012 #4
Warpy Dec 2012 #8
OmahaBlueDog Dec 2012 #9
Warpy Dec 2012 #11
OmahaBlueDog Dec 2012 #12
Big_Mike Dec 2012 #19
Spryguy Dec 2012 #27
gejohnston Dec 2012 #10
Recursion Dec 2012 #14
gejohnston Dec 2012 #15
rrneck Dec 2012 #13
Tuesday Afternoon Dec 2012 #16
DainBramaged Dec 2012 #17
Field Goal Dec 2012 #18
OmahaBlueDog Dec 2012 #20
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #21
DainBramaged Dec 2012 #22
holdencaufield Dec 2012 #23
Eleanors38 Dec 2012 #24
shadowrider Dec 2012 #25
Simo 1939_1940 Dec 2012 #26

Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:44 PM

1. does this meet SoP

Discuss gun politics, gun control laws, the Second Amendment, the use of firearms for self-defense, and the use of firearms to commit crime and violence.

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Response to Tuesday Afternoon (Reply #1)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:55 PM

7. "Discuss gun politics". Nt.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:47 PM

2. Thanks for finding these. At least one of the pro-gun ones was debunked here this week.

The "lives saved" stat was pulled straight out of someone's ass.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:51 PM

3. Thanks -- that's part of why I post everything

People will say "Why do you post that crap her?" That's exactly why.

If you have a link to the debunk, that'd be great.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #3)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:52 PM

5. Sorry, no link, it was among the zillion or so gun threads this week.

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Response to Scuba (Reply #2)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:52 PM

6. actually it was pulled out of a peer reviewed study

about 20 years old, but peer reviewed and published in a criminology journal. The researcher was awarded the Michael J. Hindelang Award from the American Society of Criminology. I have not seen where it has been "debunked" by any criminologist.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 12:51 PM

4. My favorite ones

are the ones who advocate against any gun regulation because you can, if you try hard enough and are lucky, kill someone with a large rock.

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Response to Shadowflash (Reply #4)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:44 PM

8. Exactly, you're never going to stop every homicidal maniac.

The whole aim of any gun control legislation should be to slow them down.

Large magazines need to be banned. It would be nice to see a semi auto ban, too, but that's a dream at this point. There need to be teeth in the law, hefty fines for anyone caught with banned gear.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 01:51 PM

9. I'll repeat the points I made in a post in another thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1172&pid=95469

I'll place special emphsis on points 2 & 5

1) It is rarely a good idea to form public policy after such an emotionally charged event. That said: Newtown; Aurora; the mall in Oregon; Tuscon -- it's all piling up in the public consciousness.

2) If we're going to have any kind of workable background check (criminal/mental health), common sense tells us that the "gun show loophole" needs to be closed.

3) The vast majority of gun owners are responsible and use their firearms for entirely lawful purposes.

4) I've observed that urban and suburban folks (by and large) view firearms as weapons, while exurban and rural folks (by and large) view them as tools.

5) Very little of what I've seen proposed by either side would have changed this outcome. Mrs. Lanza was a firearms enthusiast who -- oh, by the way -- had a dependent in the home on anti-psychotic medication. Common sense tells me that she should have either given up shooting sports and taken the weapons out of the house, or secured them in a way in which Adam had no access to them. ETA: every indication I've read is that Mrs. Lanza scrupulously followed all CT firearms laws

6) I frequently see situations in which parents who wouldn't dream of letting their kid go to an R-rated movie will let their kids play extremely violent video games.

7) I'm not for banning guns, but I think everyone needs to know the statistics on firearms. For example, for the vast majority of Americans, they are a statistically poor choice for home-defense. Most would be better off taking the money they's invest in a firearm and buying a state-of-the-art alarm and video monitoring system. You can't shoot intruders when you aren't home, and you're more likely to shoot yourself or a loved one in a gun accident than to ever shoot an intruder. But every situation is unique, and you may truly feel a firearm is for you. If that's what you decide, you can't just buy-it-and-forget-it. Be prepared to take lessons in its proper care and use, and set aside time at least once a month to go to a range and practice. Invest in a gun safe or trigger guards.

8) I don't see arming teachers or principals as a good option. Their focus and background are in education, not anti-terror security. It's not like aircraft pilots; many of them are ex-mil and are well trained in handgun use. Armed police or security guards could be an option. However, statistically, school is a very safe place. Once the memories of Newtown begin to fade, people will quickly see this expense as a waste of taxpayer money.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Reply #9)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:03 PM

11. I disagree with #1, especially

because this is the only time we're likely to get any sensible legislation through, when public opinion is so riled up that no Congrescritter who wants to keep his cushy job will dare go against it.

I disagree with #5. Stopping to reload every 10 rounds might have taken only seconds, but seconds are important in these cases. Seconds allow people to throw chairs at the shooter or get out the door and escape. Seconds can be critical.

The rest of your points are well taken. I especially appreciate your distinction between urban and rural gun owners, it is true in my experience, too.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #11)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:15 PM

12. I think what I'm saying in #1 is

.. that ordinarily, it isn't a good idea; however, a recent string of high profile events is beginning to make legislation look highly probable.

#5. Perhaps you are correct on the reloading, but it remains that the root cause appears to have been Mrs. Lanza having done something that really wasn't very bright. If you have a son living in your home on anti-psychotic medications, you have no more business keeping firearms in the home than keping liquor in the home if your son is an alcoholic-in-recovery. At a minimum, she should have used gun safes and trigger guards, and changed combinations regularly. Maybe she did these things - I can't say; I can say that her allowing her son access to these weapons was inexcusable. Regrettably, she became the first victim.

We can pass all the laws we want, but it's really hard to legislate against stupid.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #11)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 01:34 PM

19. As was pointed out in another thread

The Virginia Tech shooter used 17 (seventeen) individual 10 (ten) round magazines in his rampage. For anyone even partially trained, a magazine swap needs only a couple of seconds. Target discrimination and acquisition can take longer.

So, in my view, a ten round magazine limitation is basically useless. It neither stops nor slows appreciably a shooter who is determined to fire.

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Response to Big_Mike (Reply #19)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 09:17 PM

27. This is why ten round is still too much...

 

any firearm with a detachable magazine OR an internal magazine capable of holding more than two shots should be classified as an assault weapon, seized, and banned. If you MUST own a death spewer, two shots is all you need for plinking and hunting.

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Response to Warpy (Reply #8)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:00 PM

10. there have been laws against felons possessing guns

since the 1930s. It went from a max of five years to a min of five years in the 1960s. Guess what? few if any are prosecuted. A straw buyer can get ten years, but usually get a few months to probation because it is their first offense. BTW, what is the average sentence for having an unregistered machine gun? I doubt it is anything near the max of ten years.

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Response to gejohnston (Reply #10)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:54 PM

14. The only really common NFA violations are people who saw down their shotgun barrels

... in the mistaken belief that that does anything but ruin a working shotgun. IIRC that's what Miller of US v. Miller fame had done, and it's what both the guy at Ruby Ridge and the people at Waco got in trouble for. A quick google search suggests 4 years is the kind of time that gets you currently.

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Response to Recursion (Reply #14)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 03:05 PM

15. that was the case in Miller and Ruby Ridge

but I think Waco had something to do with machine guns.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 02:17 PM

13. Best of the lot.

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Response to rrneck (Reply #13)

Sun Dec 23, 2012, 08:39 PM

16. I like this one



went shooting today at the range, my first time ever a range. I live in the country and target practice on my property. This was a new experience for me. The place was packed to the gills. People of all ages and ethnicity. Families, lone women, guys, husband and wives. Shot my .22 a 9 mil and a .45 also shot AR-15. Once I got used to the noise and the goggles, I settled down and made some nice patterns.

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Dec 24, 2012, 06:53 PM

17. Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz


Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz, Gunz,



In our lifetimes, this plague will not be conquered. Until the paranoid, weak, bullying non-collectors stop hording and creating a demand every time some NRA or gun manufacturer toadie bleats their gunzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz are going to be taken away, they will continue to feed the beast, 2nd amendment be damned.


Merry Christmas gunnies. I am positive most will not even remember those who have died TODAY let alone in the past month in their 'prayers'.

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #17)


Response to DainBramaged (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 04:59 PM

20. Merry Christmas, DU Detroit Car Guy

I'm sorry we're posting under these circumstances.

We could save a Vietnam Wall worth of deaths every year if we could solve two different, but in some ways similar problems:

1) Keep guns out of the hands of criminals and lunatics
2) Keep drunks out of cars

In the meantime, I wish you a Merry Christmas, and I look forward to the UAW taking a more active role in choosing legislators and the next Governor in Michigan.

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 05:13 PM

21. Do you feel better now?

 

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #21)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 07:48 PM

22. Not until the gun disease is conquered, but with you guys, not in my lifetime.

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Response to DainBramaged (Reply #22)

Tue Dec 25, 2012, 10:14 PM

23. What do you mean ... "you guys"?

 

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Response to holdencaufield (Reply #23)

Thu Dec 27, 2012, 10:39 PM

24. Watch out! You might get alerted.

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Response to Eleanors38 (Reply #24)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:02 PM

25. Ain't that the truth

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Response to OmahaBlueDog (Original post)

Mon Dec 31, 2012, 05:56 PM

26. I've taken part in a number of debates of Facebook over the last few months.


The number if ignorant remarks would be difficult to estimate, of course, but what stands out are the two people who suggested that it would be nice if gun owners would "trim their herd" by slaughtering each other with their firearms.

The ugliness coming from our side is no prettier than that which comes from Limpballs -- hence my LOL* label.

*Limbaugh of the Left

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