While we're at it - lets ban all .50 cal firearms and silencers

[jpak]

No legitimate excuse to own either.

yup

[NYC_SKP]

1. Where are silencers legal?

I know of just a few .50 caliber weapons, and I don't see a need for them so sure, whatever.

But where I live silencers have been illegal for as long as I can remember.

[jpak]

3. all over - and the gungeoneers will set you straight on this

http://www.silencersarelegal.com/

yup

[ProgressiveProfessor]

7. Not true, and you know it...

[jpak]

10. Where are they legal?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

31. Well if you bothered to look at the site your quoted, they are legal in

AL, AK, AZ, AR, CO, CT, FL, GA, ID, IN, KS, KY, LA, ME, MD, MI, MS, MO, MT, NE, NV, NH, NM, NC, ND, OH, OK, OR, PA, SC, SD, TN, TX, UT, VA, WA, WV, WI, and WY.

They don't live up to the Hollywood hype and there is something to be said for them in terms or hearing protection. I have shot with them, and they help the noise considerably. I don't own one, but would so I could demonstrate them in my classes. No interest otherwise, most of my hearing is gone anyway.

[jpak]

42. yeah - all over - you owe me an apology

yup

[ProgressiveProfessor]

46. I owe you nothing

There are multiple states that do ban them, including California

[ret5hd]

58. What?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

60. Let me clarify for you

Our own Dave Hester (YUUUUP) claimed than suppressors were legal everywhere. They are not. Some states ban them outright. They are also taxed heavily and require the permission of the local head LEO).

[Hassin Bin Sober]

83. You know there is a difference between "all over" and "everywhere" , yes?

[ret5hd]

91. i was merely poking fun at your lack of aural clarity.

[aaaaaa5a]

65. Silencers are absolutely legal in Indiana. I believe its a $200 dollar permit and thats it.

[gejohnston]

67. that is a federal law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

[Walk away]

2. OK! nt

[Duckhunter935]

4. Make sure you get the .50 cal and above black powder weapons

I assume you would include those

[jpak]

8. all firearms that use .50 cal centerfire cartridges - banned

You can keep yer black powder rifles and yer tricorner hats

yup

[oneshooter]

12. Including my 50-70 Trapdoor

and my 50-90 Sharps Sporter?

[jpak]

22. Yup

yup

[oneshooter]

66. Do you even have an idea of what you say?

Both the 50-70 (1869) and the 50-90 (1875) are black powder cartridges.

[Eleanors38]

70. Don't worry, he's coming up with another ban as you speak.

[jpak]

92. Another gun nuttery deflection

If they use modern .50 centerfire military cartridges - ban them.

yup

[krispos42]

96. Might shoot down an airliner or something.

Yup.

[Jenoch]

68. When was the last time

a gun in the calibre you have mentioned was used in a crime?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. A 12 gauge shotgun is 74 caliber

Many black powder guns, antique and reproduction, are also over 50 caliber.

Suppressors are over the counter in Europe and are considered required safety by many there. They do not silence the gun except in Hollywood movies.

[jpak]

9. Gun nuttery deflection

Barrett rifles and their ilk - ban 'em

yup

[ProgressiveProfessor]

25. Well at least you get specific after tossing more out more lies

Its a fair argument. They are banned in CA. Not sure a crimes as ever been attributed to them

[jpak]

29. Why were they banned in California?

[Lizzie Poppet]

33. Hysterical, uninformed people screeched to their representatives, of course.

Gosh, that sure has a familiar ring to it...

[jpak]

39. The uninformed hysterical folks are buying up assault rifles as fast as they can.

yup

[Lizzie Poppet]

41. Uninformed?

LOL

[jpak]

51. Yeah - uninformed douchebag gun nuts

yup

[Lizzie Poppet]

59. Aaaand the inevitable resort to infantile playground insults.

yup

[ProgressiveProfessor]

63. YUUUUUUUUUUUP!

[Jenoch]

69. The last time an assault rifle

was used in a crime was likely around the same time a .50 Barrett was used in a crime.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

38. Hoplophobia and ignorance on the part of the pols as best I can tell

The Barrett looks even scarier than the ARs and AKs.

They are very expensive and most are bolt action.

I prefer the .338 Lapua for really long range shooting. In MOUT scenarios, just about anything in the 30 caliber range will do just fine.

[Lizzie Poppet]

43. A-yup.

Great round. I'm pretty heavily invested in .308 (a very nice bolt gun and my G3...and a fair bit of ammunition), but I've always been interested in the Lapua (and a number of other high-performance .30 loads).

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

61. They bought into the idea...

...that the world was going to go Barretts, load up with Mk 211 ammo and start shooting down airplanes.



Ever seen the Steve Reichert special? (history channel I think)

[ProgressiveProfessor]

62. I have not had cable or satellite TV for years. Not cost effective for just me

We had one of the satellite services when my wife was still alive.

I have been watching some TV recently since I have not been staying at the homestead as much recently. Saw Doomsday Preppers for the first time. Scared the shit out of me. I know preppers of all kinds, including some serious TEOTAWAKI types. The one on the TV show were worse than any I had ever known.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

64. They are, umm...

...interesting. When I win the powerball, I'm planning on buying this as a vacation home/"project".

retirement home

[neverforget]

74. .50 cal sniper rifle was used at Waco. That's why the FBI went to the Army for armor

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-665257.html


This is exactly what the FBI learned in 1993 at Waco when Branch Davidians fired a Barrett .50-caliber sniper rifle at them.

In response, the FBI deployed Bradley fighting vehicles for protection. But even that wasn't sufficient, and heavier armor was brought in.

What happened at Waco was one of the arguments made for banning the weapon in California. Other states are now considering a similar ban for fear of potential terrorist attacks.

[jpak]

97. And after Waco, all the wackos wanted them

yup

[a geek named Bob]

6. +1000,000 n/t

Unless you are hunting a t-rex, I can't see a reason to own a .50 cal BMG.

[PavePusher]

73. Are they commonly used in crime?

If not.... why ban them?

[a geek named Bob]

76. The only use I can think of for a .50 cal is vest hunting.

I like cops.

[PavePusher]

81. Long-range target and competition shooting.

They also fit into the "militia" arms catagory.

P.S. You didn't answer the question.

[invader zim]

11. waste not want not

never let a good tragedy go to waste...yup

[beevul]

13. Because they're such a crime problem, right?

Oh, they arent?

But you knew that.


Carry on culture warrior.

[jpak]

15. They have no legitimate purpose

None

yup

[gejohnston]

20. neither do sports cars

that go faster than the speed limit. Ban Cameros and Mustangs. Require governors on all cars to prevent them from going over 70 mph. No legitimate purpose for them.

[jpak]

24. Cars are transportation - .50 cal sniper rifles were designed to kill at 1000 meters or greater

That is there only legit use.

ban 'em

yup

[Lizzie Poppet]

30. So what? None has ever been used in a crime.

But by all means, keep on asking for the moon. That just means that you'll eventually get <i>nothing</i>.

[jpak]

34. You have to be kidding

right?

[Lizzie Poppet]

47. About what?

About .50 BMGs not being used in crimes? I don't think I am...but perhaps there's an exception I don't know about. I'd certainly be willing to accept evidence to teh contrary.

About the lunatic fringe of the anti-gun movement asking for so much that they end up getting nothing? Well...we'll see, won't we?

[jpak]

50. ummm...

http://www.vpc.org/snipercrime.htm

The lunitic fringe loves them some .50 cal

yup

[gejohnston]

54. most of them were in possession of one

while charged with something else, like selling drugs. I did notice one in Mexico, Fast and Furious perhaps? But then, you are talking about VPC.

[Lizzie Poppet]

56. So, approximately two crimes per year over 20 years, three out of forty of them violent...

..and one of which might have involved the .50 causing harm to a person (the citation is vague on that point). Thanks for the info, and I stand corrected about crimes committed involving these weapons. But that only reinforces my assertion that they're not contributors to gun violence.

[gejohnston]

37. sports cars are toys

that use too much gas, emitting more greenhouse gases than average, than is required to get from point a to point b. Even though the rifle is designed to hit a target at long ranges, the sports car is contributing to extinction of polar bears, drowning island nations, and other bad effects of climate change. Cars also cause greater damage to society.
Turn in your Camero
Yup

[SQUEE]

78. Not that you will even take in what I am about to say.

But, here goes, the .50 cal is actually most used in an EOD (Explosive Ordinance Disposal)and UXO ( UneXploded Ordinance) and anti materiel application, the Barrett M85 was originally procured for the military to enable sappers to effectively deal with explosive ordinance from safer standoff ranges, thereby saving lives. I saw them used extensively in Bosnia Herzegovina to detonate cluster munitions and land mines .
So no they were not designed to kill at 1km, as they are not a primary anti-personnel weapon. Just maybe if your knowledge of weapons was gleaned from somewhere besides movies or video games ... as for suppressors, they are not mythical whisper producing magic tubes, in fact most suppressors are still giving off an impulse above 110 Db.

[rl6214]

86. Cars are transportation...yet they cause so much death

But you don't care

[blue neen]

57. Camaro.

That's how you spell it. Thank you.

[beevul]

35. Thats your opinion.

And as much as it fails to mesh with reality or fact in this case, you're still free to spew it as if it does.

[Yavapai]

72. So JPAC, do you serve any legitimate purpose?

Other than spreading ignorance and bullshit?

I didn't think so...

[jpak]

98. I serve a purpose - to defy sickfuck gun CULTure

yup

[Eleanors38]

18. I don't think the OP really cares about gun-control.nt

[Tuesday Afternoon]

14. yee-haw. bring on the banhammer!

[Eleanors38]

71. There is a deodorant company in his future!

[gejohnston]

16. how about regulating silencers like

Norway, France, Finland, UK, and New Zealand?
BTW, did you know that some hunting areas in Finland and Norway require them? That many shooting ranges in France require them as well?

How many crimes have been committed with a .50 BMG?

[jpak]

21. If you want them - move to Finland

I've been to New Zealand many times - do you know the most frequent question I was asked?

It was - "what is it with Americans and your guns?".

Kiwis do not subscribe to Gun Love American Style.

yup

[gejohnston]

26. You hang out with the wrong Kiwis

the NRA's Eddie Eagle was based on the Mountain Safety Council's Billy Hooks comic books.

[jpak]

28. The NRA sucks

yup

[applegrove]

17. And ban the tracer fire for the 50 caliber gun. That could take out a helicopter or a plane.

[Eleanors38]

19. How?

[gejohnston]

23. since the rifle costs more than some cars

someone bent on doing such a thing would not buy them at a store, assuming the store had one. BTW, Carolyn McCarthy read a press release written by someone who either lied or is ignorant.

[jpak]

27. An Al Queda straw buyer can walk into a gun show with a bag of cash and buy one

They are assassination weapons.

yup

[ProgressiveProfessor]

44. I have never ever seen one for sale at gun shows

There have been floor model and the dealer/factory taking orders that all went through an FFL (Barrett is not the only one in the 50 BMG rifle business)

Assassination weapons are most likely 22LR caliber handguns. Favorite of hitmen for many years.

When was the last assassination world wide carried out over long range with a rifle?

[jpak]

53. You have never seen a Barrett rifle or a knockoff at a gun show?

I've seen dozens

and they all suck.

yup

[ProgressiveProfessor]

55. I have seen them only as floor models, not available to carry home

I have never seen one for private sale at a gun show.

[gejohnston]

48. riddle me this

if there is a "gun show loophole" why would Al Queda need a straw buyer at a gun show?

[rl6214]

87. Where...where has one been used to even attempt an assassination

Other than the movies?

[PavePusher]

75. You're kidding, right?

I think you forgot the

[applegrove]

77. 60 Minutes did a story of 50 calibre guns and tracer fire. People at war

in the former yougoslavia were buying them in the USA. Which begs the question: why do americans need 50 calibre guns, bullets and tracer fire?. Are they going hunting for Ursa Major or some other constellation?

[PavePusher]

79. What, pray tell, is "tracer fire", and where can I get some of them?

Edit: What does Yugoslavia have to do with this? What kind of weapons were they trying to buy, where, and for what?

[applegrove]

82. I for one will look forward to the day when we have an NRA free

discussion forum on the DU.

[gejohnston]

84. it was a reasonable question

and that's your answer? Maybe it is. There are liberal alternatives to the NRA like Blue Steel Democrats.

[PavePusher]

89. The only person bringing up the NRA here is... you.

And you have not answered my question. I'll bet you don't, because you have no idea what you are talking about. This is evident from the way you are mis-using terms that mean something different than what you seem to be trying to say.

In short, you want to ban something you don't understand, and can't explain.

Yeah, good luck with that.

[applegrove]

100. The NRA teaches obfuscation to their

followers to stop any debate. Make a statement on wanting gun control and some NRA follower will log on and attack the context of the idea, ridiculing the narrative of the poster who see themselves as caring and informed. You know who else attacks the personal context/narrative of people? Psychopaths. I prefer to discuss things while not having my context/narrative attacked. That is what diabolical people do to control 'reality', Keep it up and Skinner will have no choice but to start a group for discussion of gun control only.

[gejohnston]

102. sounds like projection

most if not all of the personal attacks I see come from the "pro control" side. I sounds like you want an echo chamber without having your assumptions being questioned. That is how illusions are created. If Skinner creates such a group, his right and your right to hang out there. I never saw the value of echo chambers, but that's me.

[PavePusher]

107. I'll repeat my questions:

1. What, pray tell, is "tracer fire", and where can I get some of them?

2. What does Yugoslavia have to do with this? What kind of weapons were they trying to buy, where, and for what?

[gejohnston]

80. it is a us company

If you have the money and can find a range to use it, there is no dept of needs. Since I have neither (I buy everything based on utility and not toy factor. It applies to everything.) If we did, I would want cars with governors. You don't need a car that goes over the speed limit.

[GreenStormCloud]

94. America does not have a Dept. of Needs, and you aren't the Needs Czar.

We don't have to justify our purchases to a gov't bureaucrat.

[nebenaube]

32. not my flintlocks! n/t

[ileus]

36. any legitimate excuse not to own them?

The 458 and 50 beowulf make great hog guns. They can also be used for short range whitetail hunting.

Mufflers are great for everyone in shooting. A friend put up a youtube video of his 3yo girl shooting his P22. It's hard to get young children to shoot if the weapon is too loud. Having a suppressor is a great way to introduce youngsters to the shooting sports.

I know my daughter won't shoot my AR with the 223, but insert the 22 conversion and it's easy peasy she loves shooting it. I figure if I'd invest in a muffler for the ole AR she'd love shooting the 223 also.

A muffler would also be great when coyote hunting.


plenty of reasons for 50's and suppressors.

yup

[jpak]

40. Gun nuttery at its worse

yup

[ProgressiveProfessor]

45. Another Dave Hester contribution

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup!!!

[-..__...]

49. Still at it, I see.

Here's your pony...

[LiberalArkie]

52. Why, That is the only gun politicians and the wealthy BR proof limo owners do not like

[rl6214]

85. Yeah because so many of either of those have been used in a crime...ever

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

88. So now your excuse to ban things that could cause harm is simply "no need to own"??

Last edited Sun Dec 23, 2012, 09:23 AM - Edit history (1)

Even when you take into consideration that silencers and .50 calibers are not widely, if at all, used in US crime? I wonder what else (besides guns) you'll deem people unworthy of owning because they have no legit purpose and it offends you.

How progressive of you.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

90. jpak don't need no steenkin' excuses!

[-..__...]

104. Forget it... he's rolling...

[GreenStormCloud]

93. And then the gun makers will bring out the .494 specials. N/T

[krispos42]

95. Whew, so my .499 caliber is still legal?

Yay!

[sylvi]

99. Obvious troll...

...is obvious.

[applegrove]

101. And tracer fire that can be used to shoot

down helicopters and planes.

[-..__...]

103. I could still own a Bofors though...

right?...

[Remmah2]

105. How about banning dumdums.

They serve no purpose either.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

106. sure thing baby, just leave alone the suppressors.